News Report Claims Intel 4 Is On Track For Volume Production In H2

[Admin]

Intel 4 will incorporate EUV for up to a 20% performance per watt gain vs. Intel 7.

Report Claims Intel 4 Is On Track For Volume Production In H2 : Read more

 

[GeekyOne]

What is H2? 2nd half?

 

[dehjomz]

What is H2? 2nd half?

Yes sometime between now and Dec 31, Intel will begin high volume manufacturing of products using intel 4. This is the previously named 7nm node that was delayed, and ultimately led to Pat Gelsinger, the chief architect of the mighty intel 486 returning to Intel again.

It’s great to see Intel finally ramp its first EUV node.

 

[shady28]

I don't think of Raptor Lake as being an orphan. If you look into Intel 4 closely, that node is likely to be a one trick pony so to speak. Intel 7 is anything but, as Intel has essentially been on this node since late 2019 starting with Ice Lake and has done a massive shift of 14nm nodes to support Intel 7.

Because much of Intel's production is on Intel 7 now, I expect many intel products - likely continued AL and Raptor Lake mobile / low power products and the lower end of their desktop line - will continue on Intel 7 for a couple of years. My guess is they won't move away from it en masse until 2024 when they go all in on Intel 3.

As for Intel 4, SemiWiki did a great deep dive and had this to say about Intel 4 :

"As we went through the details it became clear this process is targeted at Intel internal use to manufacture compute tiles, it is not a general use foundry process. "

It's very clear that Intel 4 is going to have a relatively short life. Intel 3 is actually where their focus is at.

"Intel 3 will offer both I/O fins and high-density cells as well as more EUV use and better transistors and interconnect. Intel 3 is designed to be an easy port from Intel 4. "

For reference :

Having said that, Intel 4 will be an important node due to EUV and its apparent advantages over TSMC N5.

In fact, Intel 4 is likely where Intel will regain its process node advantage crown within the X86 space. Only Apple on the TSMC N3 node will have an advantage in 2023, assuming Intel can deliver on their Intel 4 node :

These values are consistent with a 4 designation since it slots between N5 and N3 for the leading foundry company TSMC, although it is closer to TSMC N3 than TSMC N5. We also believe Intel 4 will have performance slightly better than TSMC N3.

Source :

Intel 4 Deep Dive - Semiwiki

As I previously wrote about here, Intel is presenting their Intel 4 process at the VLSI Technology conference. Last Wednesday Bernhard Sell (Ben) from Intel gave the press a briefing on the process and provided us with early access to the paper (embargoed until Sunday 6/12). “Intel 4 CMOS...

semiwiki.com

 

[peachpuff]

What is H2? 2nd half?

Second half of the decade...

 

[Lorien Silmaril]

yes let's all get excited before Intel even delivers anything!

having trouble being optimistic about Intel's ability to deliver anything given their history this past decade. Pat laughably took all the credit for Alder Lake and claimed AMD is in the rearview mirror when he has nothing to do with the design and release of ADL. he comes across as a bombastic opportunist rather than an engineer who lets his work speak for itself.

certainly great fit for the Intel culture though!

 

[SiliconFly]

Sorry to disappoint. Intel 4 Volume Ramp faster than everyone predicted. Perfectly in sync for meteor lake launch. And it's a lot better than TSMC N5 & N4. Actually comparable to TSMC N3 in performance. But the Intel 4 HP library power draw might be an issue. MTL might top out at 24 cores. Gotta wait & watch.

2022: Raptor Lake takes the performance lead compared to AMD Zen 4 & Apple M2 (but loses in power efficiency to both).
2023: Meteor Lake takes the performance crown. (Meteor lake on faster Intel 4, AMD on slower TSMC N5/N4, Apple on N3).
2024: Intel moves up to Intel 20A which is superior to TSMC N3. Takes both performance & efficiency crown.
2025: Intel 18A & the rest are still in old TSMC N3. What more to say?!
2026: TSMC comes out with N2. By then, Intel moves to second iteration of 18A with even better characteristics.

The future belongs to Intel.

 

[SiliconFly]

Oh pls. Intel has been in the game for 40+ years! Oh sorry, Intel has been the Market Leader for 40+ years!!

They screw up for 2 to 3 yrs, and immediately everyone claims Intel doesn't know about fabs and semiconductors!!! Ridiculous.

They're back with ADL. With RPL it's another minor win. But starting with MTL, there's no looking back. Pat knows it well & you might infer it as arrogance. Sorry AMD fanbois.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Oh pls. Intel has been in the game for 40+ years! Oh sorry, Intel has been the Market Leader for 40+ years!!

They screw up for 2 to 3 yrs, and immediately everyone claims Intel doesn't know about fabs and semiconductors!!! Ridiculous.

They're back with ADL. With RPL it's another minor win. But starting with MTL, there's no looking back. Pat knows it well & you might infer it as arrogance. Sorry AMD fanbois.

I like this guy.

 

[TJ Hooker]

They screw up for 2 to 3 yrs, and immediately everyone claims Intel doesn't know about fabs and semiconductors!!! Ridiculous.

Intel's issues and delays with new process nodes started with 14nm Broadwell back in 2013. So it's a little more than "2 to 3 yrs".

 

[JayNor]

Granite Rapids taped out on Intel-3, announced in q1 earnings call ... not Intel-4.

 

[spongiemaster]

Intel's issues and delays with new process nodes started with 14nm Broadwell back in 2013. So it's a little more than "2 to 3 yrs".

AMD's fab problems started well before that. It was so bad they spun off their fab in 2009. If not for an external company doing their fab work now, they would probably be bankrupt and bought out by now.

 

[SiliconFly]

Intel's issues and delays with new process nodes started with 14nm Broadwell back in 2013. So it's a little more than "2 to 3 yrs".

Time for some history lessons.

In 2017, Intel released coffee lake which comfortably beat zen 1 (zen was new at that time).

In 2018, Intel's woes started with the failure of it new 10nm node (poor yeild). They came out with 14++ coffee lake refresh which was readily beaten by zen 1+ (12LP refresh).

In 2019, Intel's ice lake got hammered by Zen 2. The bean counters sitting on top threw Intel to the dogs.

In 2020, Intel's Tiger Lake was up against AMD Zen 3. AMD gained market share.

In 2021, Intel released Alder Lake & put everything on equal footing. ADL is the preferred CPU now. Not Zen. Check latest cpu usage charts.

In effect, Intel lost market share to AMD only for 3 years. If you're a AMD fan, you can add one more year just to make things more interesting. But, thats the best.

Not 10 years or 20 years like many AMD fans claim.

 

[SiliconFly]

Intel's issues and delays with new process nodes started with 14nm Broadwell back in 2013. So it's a little more than "2 to 3 yrs".

And yes, Intel had issues with broadwell which was the first iteration of it's 14nm. But AMD was not in the picture that time. Intel's ivy bridge & haswell were the market leaders.

 

[dalek1234]

"Report Claims"

nuff said

 

[-Fran-]

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice..."

Given Intel's recent track record, this has a strong "I'll believe it when I see it" stamp. I hope they deliver, as competition is always good, but then again given Intel's size, I dunno...

And before Intel fanbois/warriors/apologists flood the comments after me: I'm specifically talking manufacturing. Let's ignore for the time being Sapphire Rapids is rumoured to be delayed as well as Raptor Lake (minuscule delay though, but enough to be after Zen4). Also, fun fact: AMD and Intel's biggest shareholders are the same investor groups, so they laugh at both camp fanbois and wipe their laugh tears with $100 dollar bills.

Regards.

 

[spongiemaster]

Let's ignore for the time being Sapphire Rapids is rumoured to be delayed as well as Raptor Lake (minuscule delay though, but enough to be after Zen4).

Raptor Lake has not been delayed. You can't delay something that never had a launch window in the first place. Alder Lake wasn't delayed either.

 

[SiliconFly]

Funny thing is, when AMD says without any evidence that Zen 4 is gonna be on time and is going to be great, a lot of people cheer assuming that it's a done deal.

When AMD says, Zen 5 is gonna be awesome next year, amd fanbois immediately start cheering assuming they're going to beat intel by a mile.

But when top industry insiders say with evidence that intel 4 is on track and meteor lake is gonna kick ass, all amd fanbois cry foul.

All beacuse intel screwed up for a couple of years in their 40+ year history?!?

AMD is done guys. Deal with it.

 

[-Fran-]

Raptor Lake has not been delayed. You can't delay something that never had a launch window in the first place. Alder Lake wasn't delayed either.

I'll give you this one as I can't remember what the public facing roadmaps from Intel have said about both of them, but internally, facing OEMs and AIBs, it looks like Intel will miss internal deadlines, or deadlines promised to them.

Again, this is just rumours and it may as well just be baloney, but it is something to keep in mind. Intel seems to have a lot of issues executing for whatever reason and while delays in one form or another are usually innevitable, Intel is now facing fierce competition so it's a slightly different scenario than 3 to 10 years ago.

The whale may be too big to kill, but it can definitely starve to death.

EDIT: I've copied at the time when Tom starts talking about Intel's new platform and potential delays according to his sources. As per always, salt required.

View: https://youtu.be/PHZbgaAoFHI?t=650


Regards.

 

[spongiemaster]

I'll give you this one as I can't remember what the public facing roadmaps from Intel have said about both of them, but internally, facing OEMs and AIBs, it looks like Intel will miss internal deadlines, or deadlines promised to them.

Again, this is just rumours and it may as well just be baloney, but it is something to keep in mind. Intel seems to have a lot of issues executing for whatever reason and while delays in one form or another are usually innevitable, Intel is now facing fierce competition so it's a slightly different scenario than 3 to 10 years ago.

The whale may be too big to kill, but it can definitely starve to death.

EDIT: I've copied at the time when Tom starts talking about Intel's new platform and potential delays according to his sources. As per always, salt required.

View: https://youtu.be/PHZbgaAoFHI?t=650


Regards.

The only thing Intel has said on the record about Raptor Lake's release is 2nd half of 2022 back in February. There has been no indication release will slip into 2023. Stop with the constant anti Intel FUD already.

 

[-Fran-]

The only thing Intel has said on the record about Raptor Lake's release is 2nd half of 2022 back in February. There has been no indication release will slip into 2023. Stop with the constant anti Intel FUD already.

Anti Intel FUD? Care to ellaborate? 😆

Regards.

 

[cyrusfox]

Anti Intel FUD? Care to ellaborate? 😆

Regards.

Only MLID has claimed Raptor will be late, so far it seems to have an identical schedule to Alder Lake just add a year. Which would mean this Oct Raptor Lake would be revealed and November can purchase the top line k SKUs(13900k/13700k/13600k) with the rest following Q1 2023. It was also MLID who claimed Raptor would be coming earlier, now he is saying it is late... One way to make headlines I guess

 

[-Fran-]

Only MLID has claimed Raptor will be late, so far it seems to have an identical schedule to Alder Lake just add a year. Which would mean this Oct Raptor Lake would be revealed and November can purchase the top line k SKUs(13900k/13700k/13600k) with the rest following Q1 2023. It was also MLID who claimed Raptor would be coming earlier, now he is saying it is late... One way to make headlines I guess

That is a completely fair thing to point out, so please allow me to offer a counter argument as well:

Coffee Lake (9th Gen): October 5, 2017
Comet Lake (10th Gen): August 21, 2019
Tiger Lake (11th Gen): September 2, 2020
Alder Lake (12th Gen): November 4, 2021

As you can see, Intel has been releasing them as soon as they can (well, obviously) and not with a constant cadence, so while you're right (I'd have to check his previous video leaks for the reasons and double check) the only thing for sure here is H2 of the year per release. I could look further back, but I think this is enough to make my point: just because Alder Lake released in November it means Intel is trying to keep the same cadence, as it is easy to see they're not following one anymore after "Tick Tock" went the way of the dodo.

Speculation, yes. Not true? Not necessarily. I'm sure Intel would love to release before Zen4 is out and have more ground gained towards the XMas period, don't you think?

Regards.

 

[cyrusfox]

That is a completely fair thing to point out, so please allow me to offer a counter argument as well:

Coffee Lake (9th Gen): October 5, 2017
Comet Lake (10th Gen): August 21, 2019
Tiger Lake (11th Gen): September 2, 2020
Alder Lake (12th Gen): November 4, 2021

As you can see, Intel has been releasing them as soon as they can (well, obviously) and not with a constant cadence, so while you're right (I'd have to check his previous video leaks for the reasons and double check) the only thing for sure here is H2 of the year per release. I could look further back, but I think this is enough to make my point: just because Alder Lake released in November it means Intel is trying to keep the same cadence, as it is easy to see they're not following one anymore after "Tick Tock" went the way of the dodo.

Speculation, yes. Not true? Not necessarily. I'm sure Intel would love to release before Zen4 is out and have more ground gained towards the XMas period, don't you think?

Regards.

First I would recommend we keep this comparison to only desktop release dates(exclude out tiger[never came to desktop outside the NUC]) . This is simpler and more relevant, also Intel needs to keep to an annual cadence to keep the OEM's happy. Anything later than a year is thus late

Updating your dates to when i9 desktop top sku released
Coffee Lake (9th Gen): October 19, 2018
Comet Lake (10th Gen): April 30, 2020
Rocket Lake (11th Gen): March 30th, 2021
Alder Lake (12th Gen): November 4, 2021
Here we can see from coffee to comet Intel was late(10nm hiccup cannon lake...). Ever since comet release they have successfully quickened the cadence . I lived through this personally as I went from a 9900kf, to a 10850k, to 11700k to now a 12900k. The worst purchase of those was definitely the 11700k, the 12900k has been awesome, I am eagerly awaiting the 13900k.

For AMD Zen4 competition, Alder lake will be able to to hold its own even if eclipsed by AMD in performance, thanks to DDR4 compatibility as well as cheaper Motherboards (Intel seems to command the low end/budget builds at the moment). Raptor will help intel's position, extra e-cores is only going to help with select workloads, but the extra cache and improved IPC may help match/exceed Zen 4 performance. Either way should be an exciting year with good advancements from both camps bringing price/performance down.

Intel should have a better showing this Christmas than last year thanks to better supply. I was one of the few having a hard time finding a motherboard to match my 12900k as well as the ddr5 shortage. AMD supply is limiting their market penetration, looking forward to the reviews and concrete info on both.

 

[Why_Me]

yes let's all get excited before Intel even delivers anything!

having trouble being optimistic about Intel's ability to deliver anything given their history this past decade. Pat laughably took all the credit for Alder Lake and claimed AMD is in the rearview mirror when he has nothing to do with the design and release of ADL. he comes across as a bombastic opportunist rather than an engineer who lets his work speak for itself.

certainly great fit for the Intel culture though!

Link us please to a retail AMD board with DDR5 and PCIe 5.0.