Report: Nvidia GTX 880, 880 Ti to be Cheaper than 780 Ti

[10tacle]

I agree with the sentiment, I take exception to the delivery though... You didn't have to be so rude.

Yes he did. There are far too many whiners these days about everything from how much they get paid in their jobs to how much high end GPUs cost. Seems like more and more everyone these days (especially those under 30) feels entitled to everything. It seems there are fewer and fewer who feel the need to work their butts off from the ground up and earn more based on merit, accomplishment, and skill advancement (all three are not mutually exclusive). See Exhibit A: minimum wage.

/rant off

 

[wiyosaya]

Price gouging is exactly why I haven't upgraded yet. Unfortunately I'm one of those suckers that waits to buy the fastest instead of the smartest piece of hardware. So I will be upgrading to another NVidia card eventually.

+1
Highly agree with you. There's no way I'll go over $400 or so for a card that's the latest and greatest. As a value buy option, one can always consider waiting until used cards come on the market - IMHO. I don't buy hardware for bragging rights.

 

[Murissokah]

They might be cheaper to manufacture, selling them cheaper than the 700-series counterpart makes no sense. Nvidia might lower 700-series prices and then release 800-series below their current price point, which would be so very welcome, and also so very unlikely.

 

[jasonelmore]

They should be cheaper, the Die will be smaller. Smaller die = cheaper to make

Smaller memory bus= smaller die

smaller die = cheaper gpu

 

[jasonelmore]

however your doing a catch 22 with the big cache. The bigger you make the cache, the bigger the gpu die has to be. The bigger you make the memory buss, the bigger the die. The only caveat is bigger cache consumes less power, but in desktop cards that does not matter that much.

 

[somebodyspecial]

I hope both sides charge whatever the market will bear - that is called capitalism in a FREE market. If you can't afford product X, get a better job. If they go cheap they make no money and that ends with a new gen every 3 years instead of every year or so. NV isn't making what they did in 2007 and hasn't since, so for the last ~7 years they've been giving you a break despite what you believe or they'd make MORE at some point in the last 7yrs correct?

AMD, still trying to make money for a full year. See the point. Quit whining about pricing when nobody is making much cash. IF you think that price is too high on either side, I'd challenge you to PROVE they are ripping you off after looking at their 10yr summaries and recent balance sheets. YOU ARE WRONG.

If you want pricing to come down some, you could also hope AMD makes more money so they can put out products that don't have as many problems which would cause NV to price lower. You price your product for a premium over your competition when the competition has issues (be it speed, drivers in phase 3, etc etc, same with Intel vs. AMD). Companies are in business to make money, NOT do you favors no matter what you think. Their job is to make money and neither side is doing very well compared to the last 10yrs. The pricing war has killed them both. If you took out the payments to Nvidia from Intel they wouldn't be making 1/2 what they were in 2007...LOL.

You whiners need to read balance sheets and financial reports. Clueless. I sincerely hope companies IGNORE you whiners and charge whatever they can get, because they are both WEAKER today than before. We need them stronger, NOT weaker than they already are.

I agree with the sentiment, I take exception to the delivery though... You didn't have to be so rude. On the plus side, I agree that we need those company's to be financially strong. However, if you continually bring out re-hashed and re-named cards and you have an unnecessarily number of cards, then it means you also have to make sure that every one of those cards is profitable in their own right. I personally feel that less is more - and is actually better for everyone. Why should they have such a wide array of cards, really? Manufacturing costs...so save yourself some costs and manufacture fewer products at a better price...more people would be able to afford it and leave these 4-digit monster cards as collector's editions or something to that effect. Those are for your bragging rights. They will almost NEVER be accessible to the everyday Joe.

I don't see anything rude in there. People in here do WHINE repeatedly about pricing for both sides (and everything else they think they should get free), pointing it out is hardly abusive or rude. Now if I'd have put in a ton of expletives with it, or called them names etc maybe you'd have a point. Why are people such wimps today and require everyone around them to be so gentle and PC (I mean politically correct) or they have a twitter meltdown? We are creating a generation of pussies that can't handle any sort of criticism or even a mild debate. Telling someone they are a whiner is a discussion of their character, not calling them a name. It's also something the can easily fix. Back in my day when you had a problem and took it to the teacher I was told verbatim "go fix it yourself" and I did (followed by getting kicked out for a day, but that person never did what they did again-WORTH IT)...LOL. Today the whole world gets involved in your problem for you. Pussification of america. I didn't need helmet, mommy helping me constantly etc...I could stand up for MYSELF. I could handle criticism and fix it, deal with it etc. Holy crap, we had some pride and were actually DRIVEN to accomplish things back then. Everyone didn't get an award for playing. I had to FIGHT for those championships and wouldn't have bothered if everyone got a trophy. What the heck? EARN IT. You aren't GIVEN the American Dream, you EARN IT.

"I'm a big believer that, other than serving in the military, the most patriotic thing you can do is get dirty, stinking, filthy rich. You'll hire people; you'll pay a ton of taxes; you can help other people go into business. It creates jobs; it creates opportunity. This makes me feel like a part of the solution, and it feels good. "
Marc Cuban

- I solute you Marc

Today, we create kids who can't handle jack squat in the real world. A boss critiques them and they cry, quit or worse sue you for it. Quitters everywhere. Dropouts. You can't touch your kid so no respect from them. When I did something wrong, I FEARED my dad coming home with the belt from work...LOL. It kept your nose clean most days just having that fear. I'm not talking abuse, just if you did something wrong your butt stinging all night told you not to do it again. Can you tell me our PC crap has made our kids better than the older generations like Cuban etc? NO. We were told to go outside and play with our friends, get some exercise. Today, obesity in kids before they're even teens. Are you picking up what I'm putting down here?

Toughen up people...PC crap needs to die. Grow some thicker skin and a backbone for crying out loud. Quit thinking everyone owes you something (everything?...ROFL). Cut the welfare crap from anyone ABLE bodied, and we'll see how many of them suddenly find the ability to work as if by magic. 50% of the country is on assistance. SAY WHAT? In my day it was a family embarrassment to take anything unless absolutely unavoidable. I've had ONE unemployment check in my life and only to get into an MCSE program (that had no funding when I finally got my check...LOL). I dropped the checks immediately as I'm not lazy and surely someone with REAL needs required it more than me. But there aren't many of those today, mostly lazy people milking the system as seen by how much it's grown under this administration. I say that as someone with a family member who is EXACTLY who I'm talking about here. LAZY and fine with assistance for life no drive to better themselves at all as long as the handout is there for years. She won't get off until you CUT HER OFF. Period. She's basically taught her kid the same just by watching her actions and how effective it was getting free stuff. We have professional slackers everywhere these days. That's not rude, it's just the simple facts. My delivery was SPOT ON. Your reaction to the "DELIVERY"? SAD, just sad. Re-read my two posts here. Quick, read my mind I take exception to your exception of my delivery...LOL.

Having said that, I agree with the rest of your post, cut costs and just have maybe 3-4 tiers. But some of it is harvesting defective chips so maybe they're making more now by not having to toss chips than if they tried to fit everything into 3 models or toss a bad chip. I'm not sure, just saying there may be a good explanation for what we see as ridiculous amounts of models. I'd be ok with a new gen every 3yrs or a tad more so they can milk a process/chip longer and give much larger gains every time a new gen hit while saving a ton on R&D that doesn't get much until die shrinks. Maybe a new gen for each shrink so you get that holy crap this is awesome feeling again. But I'm not going to complain much about this current state of affairs as long as they can figure out how to make money and I get decent products when I do want a new one of whatever, I'm ok with it. They know more about their business than I do surely.

 

[somebodyspecial]

They should be cheaper, the Die will be smaller. Smaller die = cheaper to make

Smaller memory bus= smaller die

smaller die = cheaper gpu

To some extent true. But it is more than just the shrink we're talking here. To get this stuff done is costing more up front. IE Nvidia's R&D just back in 2010 was 900mil. Growing each year it is now at 1.336B. So they aren't just revving new ones and kicking them out the door, they are revving at a HIGHER cost. In 2011 the R&D was only 800mil (blip down) but since has exploded to the 1.336B. That is a HUGE increase for a company only making ~500mil per year already. If they stayed with the old model they'd be pocketing another 450mil or so. But instead as the financials show they are spending all that extra cash they could have on your R&D for the next gen. Not sure they can cut costs like some people think so easily. If they don't figure out some other way to do some things more efficiently I don't expect much of a drop from either side.:
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-income-statement/?symbol=nvda
R&D data in there for 5 years.

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-income-statement/?symbol=amd
A look at AMD shows R&D in 2009 at 1.7B+. A look at now shows constant dropping and now down to 1.2B thus lower than NV now. That isn't good, so I hope they stop this price war with NV and get back to pocketing some money again. TTM 90million loss. I don't expect a profit for the year this year either. Again, bad. If it wasn't for AMD's constant drops making people happy, they'd be pocketing 500mil instead of barely profitable, and NV would be cashing in 1B in profits instead of 450mil. Like it or not, the price war needs to stop and profits need to rise. We are starting to see the effects of AMD dropping R&D over the last 4 years by 500mil in drivers, bad launches etc. We need the price war to stop. Nobody should look at the data and downvote me. They should get the point and upvote this. You can't make better products at 1.2B R&D than you could at 1.7B+ R&D and at the same time they took a ton of R&D and diverted it to consoles. It's just not possible to continue like this without worse results. In 2006 AMD's stock price was $41.80 (loved the stock then). Now it's $4, share dilution nearly doubled, assets tumbled etc. Company value in 2006 ~23Billion. Now? 3.35Billion market cap. Devaluing your company ~85% is NOT a good thing.

I can't believe people want cheaper pricing with details like this out there. Not a comment directed at you, not sure you're asking for them to be cheaper or just saying they're MAYBE cheaper to make. I hope they are cheaper, but if they are I hope they KEEP it all and don't pass any savings to us. Neither side can afford that strategy, especially AMD as shown. I want AMD to be the AMD of 2006, not 2014. This new version sucks due to years of mismanagement.

 

[laststop311]

have a feeling maxwell is going to be a let down that focuses on providing equal performance to kepler but just as much lower powers. Us High end enthusiasts with high grade cooling systems would much rather have a higher performance GPU even fit he power doesn't change.

 

[laststop311]

But maxwell is shaping up yo be the GPU that lets you fit in a near flagship GPU maybe 1 step below flagship in a tiny mini itx format. So maxwell may well allow for an incredibly tiny lower power mini itx system that doesn't run like a jet engine super hot.

 

[laststop311]

And still be able to handle 2560x1440 @ 60fpd and ultra settings. If the GTX 880 ti will be the successor maybe just maybe we will have partners making mini itx sized gtx 80 non ti or at the besy least gtx 870 in mini itx size.

 

[laststop311]

I picked up a GTX770 over Christmas and I still think that's just about the sweet spot for 1080p gaming. I can max out everything with performance room to spare, andI doubt I'll need to replace it until 4k is mainstream. So, unless you're gaming at resolutions above 1080p, you really don't need to spend much more than $300. Let alone $500 or $700.

Agreed. If someone is playing games at 1080p on a single monitor, anything above a 770 is a complete waste of money. But you know the saying, a fool and his money....

This is a pretty false statement. A single 770s in a lot of high end games only nets 60 - 80fps on max settings. A lot of competitive people use 120 - 144hz 1080p gaming monitors and a single 770 GTX doesn't cut it. It also leaves very little to look forward to in the future as games naturally become more demanding.

Imho dual 770s in SLI is a bare minimum for any serious PC gamer.

I picked up a GTX770 over Christmas and I still think that's just about the sweet spot for 1080p gaming. I can max out everything with performance room to spare, andI doubt I'll need to replace it until 4k is mainstream. So, unless you're gaming at resolutions above 1080p, you really don't need to spend much more than $300. Let alone $500 or $700.

Agreed. If someone is playing games at 1080p on a single monitor, anything above a 770 is a complete waste of money. But you know the saying, a fool and his money....

This is a pretty false statement. A single 770s in a lot of high end games only nets 60 - 80fps on max settings. A lot of competitive people use 120 - 144hz 1080p gaming monitors and a single 770 GTX doesn't cut it. It also leaves very little to look forward to in the future as games naturally become more demanding.

Imho dual 770s in SLI is a bare minimum for any serious PC gamer.

Personallu I feel you can get a high end top binned gtx 780ti with a max OC and top components for the same price as 2 average gtx 770. Not only will use use less power and have near the same or better on many games not optimized for 2 cards. It also takes up less room. I think it's alway better just going to next step up instead of getting 2 lower grades in sli and all the headaches that come them out

 

[laststop311]

Less heat more compatability same price and gives you an easier upgrade path as you ca just pout another 1 in later to rly boost performance. 500 for a gtx 780 is a really good deal. I think the gtx 780 is the best bang for the buck once they lowered in 250 bucks

 

[MANOFKRYPTONAK]

I hope both sides charge whatever the market will bear - that is called capitalism in a FREE market. If you can't afford product X, get a better job. If they go cheap they make no money and that ends with a new gen every 3 years instead of every year or so. NV isn't making what they did in 2007 and hasn't since, so for the last ~7 years they've been giving you a break despite what you believe or they'd make MORE at some point in the last 7yrs correct?

AMD, still trying to make money for a full year. See the point. Quit whining about pricing when nobody is making much cash. IF you think that price is too high on either side, I'd challenge you to PROVE they are ripping you off after looking at their 10yr summaries and recent balance sheets. YOU ARE WRONG.

If you want pricing to come down some, you could also hope AMD makes more money so they can put out products that don't have as many problems which would cause NV to price lower. You price your product for a premium over your competition when the competition has issues (be it speed, drivers in phase 3, etc etc, same with Intel vs. AMD). Companies are in business to make money, NOT do you favors no matter what you think. Their job is to make money and neither side is doing very well compared to the last 10yrs. The pricing war has killed them both. If you took out the payments to Nvidia from Intel they wouldn't be making 1/2 what they were in 2007...LOL.

You whiners need to read balance sheets and financial reports. Clueless. I sincerely hope companies IGNORE you whiners and charge whatever they can get, because they are both WEAKER today than before. We need them stronger, NOT weaker than they already are.

LOL!!! They are making money, they have to or they would just shut down there business and move on. You are looking at this to simplistically. There are so many factors that go into making these cards, fab processes, coding, contracts, engineers, etc... The fact is they are charging more for these card series than in the past, you can't get around that... They are not giving anyone a break lol, they are a corporation!!! The fact is they have ECONOMISTS that determine the market to try and make the most for the corporation. The amount of research they put in and what they research to try and predict the market is incredible. One can't just simply say that a company is taking it easy on the consumer, or making less money for the benefit of the consumer... Of course they are making a ton of money still off of there products. And they are always trying to make as much money as possible. AMD can't make a profit because they had a horrible business plan, and weren't very competitive, NOT because they wanted to sell me a 290x at a discount. Take some advanced level econ classes, you will see it's a lot more in depth than a simple supply and demand curve.

Thank you so much for taking it easy on me Nvidia and AMD, you are charging me less money and giving me a break on your products! I know you do it because you care!

 

[somebodyspecial]

I hope both sides charge whatever the market will bear - that is called capitalism in a FREE market. If you can't afford product X, get a better job. If they go cheap they make no money and that ends with a new gen every 3 years instead of every year or so. NV isn't making what they did in 2007 and hasn't since, so for the last ~7 years they've been giving you a break despite what you believe or they'd make MORE at some point in the last 7yrs correct?

AMD, still trying to make money for a full year. See the point. Quit whining about pricing when nobody is making much cash. IF you think that price is too high on either side, I'd challenge you to PROVE they are ripping you off after looking at their 10yr summaries and recent balance sheets. YOU ARE WRONG.

If you want pricing to come down some, you could also hope AMD makes more money so they can put out products that don't have as many problems which would cause NV to price lower. You price your product for a premium over your competition when the competition has issues (be it speed, drivers in phase 3, etc etc, same with Intel vs. AMD). Companies are in business to make money, NOT do you favors no matter what you think. Their job is to make money and neither side is doing very well compared to the last 10yrs. The pricing war has killed them both. If you took out the payments to Nvidia from Intel they wouldn't be making 1/2 what they were in 2007...LOL.

You whiners need to read balance sheets and financial reports. Clueless. I sincerely hope companies IGNORE you whiners and charge whatever they can get, because they are both WEAKER today than before. We need them stronger, NOT weaker than they already are.

LOL!!! They are making money, they have to or they would just shut down there business and move on. You are looking at this to simplistically. There are so many factors that go into making these cards, fab processes, coding, contracts, engineers, etc... The fact is they are charging more for these card series than in the past, you can't get around that... They are not giving anyone a break lol, they are a corporation!!! The fact is they have ECONOMISTS that determine the market to try and make the most for the corporation. The amount of research they put in and what they research to try and predict the market is incredible. One can't just simply say that a company is taking it easy on the consumer, or making less money for the benefit of the consumer... Of course they are making a ton of money still off of there products. And they are always trying to make as much money as possible. AMD can't make a profit because they had a horrible business plan, and weren't very competitive, NOT because they wanted to sell me a 290x at a discount. Take some advanced level econ classes, you will see it's a lot more in depth than a simple supply and demand curve.

Thank you so much for taking it easy on me Nvidia and AMD, you are charging me less money and giving me a break on your products! I know you do it because you care!

You didn't read any of my data did you. AMD lost $6Billion in the last 10yrs. Making money? What is your definition of making money? Take a look at the links before you claim that fantasy as reality. Take a look at R&D spending etc.

In the last 12 months (TTM for those who trade) amd has lost ~90million. You are confused about the definition of PROFITS and LOSSES. Nvidia makes 1/2 what they did in 2007. You call that great? Balance sheets don't lie. Financial reports are not fantasy. Your statements however, are backed by nothing but your own opinion. Please point to all the magical profits you seem to think these two are making. Nvidia wouldn't be making much either if you took out Intel's payments due to the lawsuit. That would leave them both making jack squat. Intel pays NV 67mil/quarter so take that away from the ~450mil they make now and you get ~200mil even for NV and that is 1/4 what they made in 2007. What part of this math are you not understanding?

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=US%3aNVDA
10yr summary on NVidia.

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=amd
10yr on AMD. You don't need to believe me, just check the stats. You are wrong. By a long shot. You're just wasting my time. AMD is near death it's just taking a while as they continue to sell senior notes at TERRIBLE rates to stay afloat because their credit rating is JUNK BOND status. Check the shares outstanding. Jeez...Doubled in 10yrs. Stock from $42 to $4 in 7yrs...That's good to you? Assets in half in that time (meaning you own 1/2 what you did before), more long term debt than 10yrs ago too (the senior notes etc sales, hoping you'll be profitable before they come due). R&D has dropped from 1.7B to 1.2B in just the last 4 years. Quit living in a pipedream please.

 

[MANOFKRYPTONAK]

I hope both sides charge whatever the market will bear - that is called capitalism in a FREE market. If you can't afford product X, get a better job. If they go cheap they make no money and that ends with a new gen every 3 years instead of every year or so. NV isn't making what they did in 2007 and hasn't since, so for the last ~7 years they've been giving you a break despite what you believe or they'd make MORE at some point in the last 7yrs correct?

AMD, still trying to make money for a full year. See the point. Quit whining about pricing when nobody is making much cash. IF you think that price is too high on either side, I'd challenge you to PROVE they are ripping you off after looking at their 10yr summaries and recent balance sheets. YOU ARE WRONG.

If you want pricing to come down some, you could also hope AMD makes more money so they can put out products that don't have as many problems which would cause NV to price lower. You price your product for a premium over your competition when the competition has issues (be it speed, drivers in phase 3, etc etc, same with Intel vs. AMD). Companies are in business to make money, NOT do you favors no matter what you think. Their job is to make money and neither side is doing very well compared to the last 10yrs. The pricing war has killed them both. If you took out the payments to Nvidia from Intel they wouldn't be making 1/2 what they were in 2007...LOL.

You whiners need to read balance sheets and financial reports. Clueless. I sincerely hope companies IGNORE you whiners and charge whatever they can get, because they are both WEAKER today than before. We need them stronger, NOT weaker than they already are.

LOL!!! They are making money, they have to or they would just shut down there business and move on. You are looking at this to simplistically. There are so many factors that go into making these cards, fab processes, coding, contracts, engineers, etc... The fact is they are charging more for these card series than in the past, you can't get around that... They are not giving anyone a break lol, they are a corporation!!! The fact is they have ECONOMISTS that determine the market to try and make the most for the corporation. The amount of research they put in and what they research to try and predict the market is incredible. One can't just simply say that a company is taking it easy on the consumer, or making less money for the benefit of the consumer... Of course they are making a ton of money still off of there products. And they are always trying to make as much money as possible. AMD can't make a profit because they had a horrible business plan, and weren't very competitive, NOT because they wanted to sell me a 290x at a discount. Take some advanced level econ classes, you will see it's a lot more in depth than a simple supply and demand curve.

Thank you so much for taking it easy on me Nvidia and AMD, you are charging me less money and giving me a break on your products! I know you do it because you care!

You didn't read any of my data did you. AMD lost $6Billion in the last 10yrs. Making money? What is your definition of making money? Take a look at the links before you claim that fantasy as reality. Take a look at R&D spending etc.

In the last 12 months (TTM for those who trade) amd has lost ~90million. You are confused about the definition of PROFITS and LOSSES. Nvidia makes 1/2 what they did in 2007. You call that great? Balance sheets don't lie. Financial reports are not fantasy. Your statements however, are backed by nothing but your own opinion. Please point to all the magical profits you seem to think these two are making. Nvidia wouldn't be making much either if you took out Intel's payments due to the lawsuit. That would leave them both making jack squat. Intel pays NV 67mil/quarter so take that away from the ~450mil they make now and you get ~200mil even for NV and that is 1/4 what they made in 2007. What part of this math are you not understanding?

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=US%3aNVDA
10yr summary on NVidia.

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=amd
10yr on AMD. You don't need to believe me, just check the stats. You are wrong. By a long shot. You're just wasting my time. AMD is near death it's just taking a while as they continue to sell senior notes at TERRIBLE rates to stay afloat because their credit rating is JUNK BOND status. Check the shares outstanding. Jeez...Doubled in 10yrs. Stock from $42 to $4 in 7yrs...That's good to you? Assets in half in that time (meaning you own 1/2 what you did before), more long term debt than 10yrs ago too (the senior notes etc sales, hoping you'll be profitable before they come due). R&D has dropped from 1.7B to 1.2B in just the last 4 years. Quit living in a pipedream please.

You are right, and you are "somebody special", I know nothing, nothing at all. You truly are much more intelligent than anyone else... You are right they are giving away these graphics cards at these prices. The following are not my personal overview of AMDs financial statements, they are from anandtech.com and more importantly they are from Brett Howse.

From here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7944/amd-q1-2014-quarterly-earnings-20m-loss-on-140b-in-revenue

The biggest decrease was in the Computing Solutions (CPUs & APUs) segment, where there was a decrease of 12% year-over-year, however the Graphics and Visual Solutions (GPUs & custom SoCs) segment had a huge year-over-year increase of 118% mostly due to semi-custom SoC production. This isn’t surprising with the very high sales of the Xbox One, and more so the PS4, both which have AMD silicon at the heart of their platform.

GPU operating income also increased year-over-year up $75M with the release of the popular Radeon R7 and R9 products and strong Average Selling Prices of those devices.

Brett seems to think they are making money. He doesn't seem to think that AMD is giving them away. He also said that the average selling price was strong, and up $75M.

I think I am going to go with AMDs own financial reportings on this one and Brett Howse. AMD is making money selling GPUs, and no they are not giving them away...

So yeah, sorry "somebodyspecial", Like I said take a few classes at a university and learn a little bit lol.

 

[somebodyspecial]

I hope both sides charge whatever the market will bear - that is called capitalism in a FREE market. If you can't afford product X, get a better job. If they go cheap they make no money and that ends with a new gen every 3 years instead of every year or so. NV isn't making what they did in 2007 and hasn't since, so for the last ~7 years they've been giving you a break despite what you believe or they'd make MORE at some point in the last 7yrs correct?

AMD, still trying to make money for a full year. See the point. Quit whining about pricing when nobody is making much cash. IF you think that price is too high on either side, I'd challenge you to PROVE they are ripping you off after looking at their 10yr summaries and recent balance sheets. YOU ARE WRONG.

If you want pricing to come down some, you could also hope AMD makes more money so they can put out products that don't have as many problems which would cause NV to price lower. You price your product for a premium over your competition when the competition has issues (be it speed, drivers in phase 3, etc etc, same with Intel vs. AMD). Companies are in business to make money, NOT do you favors no matter what you think. Their job is to make money and neither side is doing very well compared to the last 10yrs. The pricing war has killed them both. If you took out the payments to Nvidia from Intel they wouldn't be making 1/2 what they were in 2007...LOL.

You whiners need to read balance sheets and financial reports. Clueless. I sincerely hope companies IGNORE you whiners and charge whatever they can get, because they are both WEAKER today than before. We need them stronger, NOT weaker than they already are.

LOL!!! They are making money, they have to or they would just shut down there business and move on. You are looking at this to simplistically. There are so many factors that go into making these cards, fab processes, coding, contracts, engineers, etc... The fact is they are charging more for these card series than in the past, you can't get around that... They are not giving anyone a break lol, they are a corporation!!! The fact is they have ECONOMISTS that determine the market to try and make the most for the corporation. The amount of research they put in and what they research to try and predict the market is incredible. One can't just simply say that a company is taking it easy on the consumer, or making less money for the benefit of the consumer... Of course they are making a ton of money still off of there products. And they are always trying to make as much money as possible. AMD can't make a profit because they had a horrible business plan, and weren't very competitive, NOT because they wanted to sell me a 290x at a discount. Take some advanced level econ classes, you will see it's a lot more in depth than a simple supply and demand curve.

Thank you so much for taking it easy on me Nvidia and AMD, you are charging me less money and giving me a break on your products! I know you do it because you care!

You didn't read any of my data did you. AMD lost $6Billion in the last 10yrs. Making money? What is your definition of making money? Take a look at the links before you claim that fantasy as reality. Take a look at R&D spending etc.

In the last 12 months (TTM for those who trade) amd has lost ~90million. You are confused about the definition of PROFITS and LOSSES. Nvidia makes 1/2 what they did in 2007. You call that great? Balance sheets don't lie. Financial reports are not fantasy. Your statements however, are backed by nothing but your own opinion. Please point to all the magical profits you seem to think these two are making. Nvidia wouldn't be making much either if you took out Intel's payments due to the lawsuit. That would leave them both making jack squat. Intel pays NV 67mil/quarter so take that away from the ~450mil they make now and you get ~200mil even for NV and that is 1/4 what they made in 2007. What part of this math are you not understanding?

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=US%3aNVDA
10yr summary on NVidia.

http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/financial-statements?symbol=amd
10yr on AMD. You don't need to believe me, just check the stats. You are wrong. By a long shot. You're just wasting my time. AMD is near death it's just taking a while as they continue to sell senior notes at TERRIBLE rates to stay afloat because their credit rating is JUNK BOND status. Check the shares outstanding. Jeez...Doubled in 10yrs. Stock from $42 to $4 in 7yrs...That's good to you? Assets in half in that time (meaning you own 1/2 what you did before), more long term debt than 10yrs ago too (the senior notes etc sales, hoping you'll be profitable before they come due). R&D has dropped from 1.7B to 1.2B in just the last 4 years. Quit living in a pipedream please.

You are right, and you are "somebody special", I know nothing, nothing at all. You truly are much more intelligent than anyone else... You are right they are giving away these graphics cards at these prices. The following are not my personal overview of AMDs financial statements, they are from anandtech.com and more importantly they are from Brett Howse.

From here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7944/amd-q1-2014-quarterly-earnings-20m-loss-on-140b-in-revenue

The biggest decrease was in the Computing Solutions (CPUs & APUs) segment, where there was a decrease of 12% year-over-year, however the Graphics and Visual Solutions (GPUs & custom SoCs) segment had a huge year-over-year increase of 118% mostly due to semi-custom SoC production. This isn’t surprising with the very high sales of the Xbox One, and more so the PS4, both which have AMD silicon at the heart of their platform.

GPU operating income also increased year-over-year up $75M with the release of the popular Radeon R7 and R9 products and strong Average Selling Prices of those devices.

Brett seems to think they are making money. He doesn't seem to think that AMD is giving them away. He also said that the average selling price was strong, and up $75M.

I think I am going to go with AMDs own financial reportings on this one and Brett Howse. AMD is making money selling GPUs, and no they are not giving them away...

So yeah, sorry "somebodyspecial", Like I said take a few classes at a university and learn a little bit lol.

Start your post with personal attacks etc...ROFL:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg
Try to avoid the bottom 3-4 in that hierarchy. I think you pretty well covered the bottom 3 if not 4.

http://quarterlyearnings.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=quarterlyearnings
Why not just read AMD's own data. Why read an AMD shill website with a whole portal dedicated to them and nothing for the other side

You seem to have a problem with the nick, but if you've been here long and read my posts it was chosen because my usual nick (NOBODY SPECIAL) was gone (my posts using this are all over seeking alpha etc) and my old nick on here before some database snafu on toms years ago was thejian which I use still at anandtech (with underscore there) etc. Not sure where in my statements you got that I'm smarter than everyone or that I think I'm more intelligent then anyone else (you took that from the nick or something?). Attacking me or my nick doesn't change the data. Your own page you link to says they lost 20mil on the quarter, and most of the gpu money comes directly from Console chips. We'll see next month for Q2, how they're doing without the help of miners buying up their cards.

The numbers you're quoting cover 1Q (and after 2 HUGE launches, consoles + R7/R9) and you have to consider that after the 200mil to GF, the ~50mil in interest etc (not sure they paid more than 1/2 to GF with debt up 80mil) they get a 20mil loss. If after all is said and done you are still losing money, you're not charging enough correct? If you have 1.4Billion in sales but LOSE 20mil you're not charging enough correct? After cutting 30% of your workforce you still can't make money yearly (that's a lot of wages not being paid now, mostly engineering lost), you're not charging enough correct?

Operating income can be through the roof, but if NET INCOME is a loss you're missing the point here. Their job is to make NET INCOME. The money that is left after everyone slices and dices it (taxes, bills to pay, R&D etc). The PROFIT. YOY increase of 118% as they said in your own link "was driven by higher sales of semi-custom SoCs." Well I took that quote from AMD directly but it's the same point. Meaning CONSOLES caused it as those are not on discrete cards (yet, maxwell or pascal might have one, maybe amd by then too). ASP's can be up, that's great. But if they are still losing money, they apparently aren't up quite enough yet correct? Anandtech can pull rosy facts to hide the whole story, but a quick look at the reports in their ENTIRETY shows otherwise. Operating income is the "FEEL GOOD/LOOKS GOOD" number, but NET INCOME is the harsh reality number that you go home with in your pocket. You can have 1Billion operating income, but if after every thing is done, your net income is -1.5B you're losing your butt. Get it?

If your ASP's go from 10% to 20% and someone claims "they doubled their ASPs on STRONG sales of product X" but then say, but we lost 100mil. The ASP increase is pretty meaningless correct? Clearly in that case they need to be higher. A more accurate way to say that would be they doubled the ASP but still need it to be, say, tripled AGAIN to make money (IE 60%, just examples here). They're moving in the right direction but have a long ways to go. Get the point? If your ASP's are better yay, but if not making money yet, boo not enough ASP. Anandtech's take uses words like "STRONG ASP, HUGE increase", my take: but not enough to make a profit...LOL.

Anandtech paints a rosy picture as always (IE, they don't say HUGE increase in the reports, anandtech adds that flavor). IE saying keeping cash at 1B that they like (they don't want more?...They don't want NV's 3.7B in cash? LOL). But forget to tell you that it went DOWN. Quit reading PRESS RELEASES and read the REAL DATA.
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-balance-sheet/?stmtView=Qtr&symbol=US%3aAMD
4Q2013 1.097B in cash/short term equiv, but this last Q1 now 907mil. Nearly a 200mil drop right? I'd call it a major drop at ~18-20% depending on how you look at the numbers.
Assets
Cash, Equiv and Short Term Investments (check this line out in link above)

Total Debt went from 2.06B to 2.14B. Again adding 80mil to debt not good either. Do the numbers all still sound as rosy as anandtech painted it now? Debt up, still 20mil loss, most gpu money YOY came from custom soc (consoles).

Let me know when they make ~380-497mil like the did 2009-2011. I don't call a $20million loss HUGE PROFITS. It's a freaking LOSS.

1st comment on that anandtech post of yours says it all:
"Hrel - Thursday, April 17, 2014 - link
If that's not a positive spin I don't know what is."

And the last comment:
"24Gordon - Sunday, April 20, 2014 - link
Am I right to worry that GPU sales were only as good as they were because of cryptocurrency mining?"

My thoughts exactly in both cases. Also that consoles are dropping as they note (NPD etc shows this too), and it cost them 31mil this Q due to that drop. These things just came out, this isn't good either.

Nvidia charges more, causes all the whining etc. But guess what, THEY MAKE MONEY (and nowhere near 2007 levels so still not enough). So if AMD isn't making money, what are they doing wrong? I'm feeling generous so I'll spell it out for you. They are not CHARGING enough to MAKE MONEY I'm done responding to you on this particular topic. We can agree we disagree. Enjoy your evening.

 

[all stalked out]

I'm looking forward to this, I moved to an AMD 290x (MSI Gaming) a few days ago and the bloomin thing run's games great but temps can still hit 94 degrees, I've had to reverse my 14 cm side window fans just to get it down to 84 degrees (I do not overclock it). The 780 Classified I was running would max out at 74 degrees so I'm still 10 degrees over that and don't like it, The sooner Nvidia bring the high end 800's to the table the better.