Rip-off artists

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

interjection if I may......


What product of any meaning has increased in fundamental quality, and has
decreased in price? Even water is more expensive than it was last year.

The conspiracy is not focused on memory for a PC, it is much larger. Global
diversification of the manufacturing of products, leading to global economy.
Memory prices sustain a countries existence and the crooks who govern it
(not yours or mine in this case).


"David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
news:111omj47dsu1711@corp.supernews.com...
> aether wrote:
>
> >>>>I just purchased 1 GB of quality Corsair DDR400 memory for about
> >
> > $150.<<<
> >
> > Even still, that's more than a 10% increase over the $120 module I
> > spoke of. What type of Corsair DDR400 memory was it, specifically?
> > Also, was it a single module or twin? Remember, I said 'quality'
> > module. In addition, the module I was referring to was top of the line.
> > It's equivalent today would probably be the 'XMS Extreme'.
> >
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-511&depa=0
)
> > It's currently priced at $279.50. (and is sold out..)
> >
> > I recall the difficulty of installing old memory, and the price per MB.
> > I'm speaking of the recent; the last few years specifically. The prices
> > are increasing. That simply can't be denied.
> >
>
> As I said before, you only look at the bits and pieces that fit your
> conspiracy theory.
>
> See here
>
> Memory Market Overview: February 2005
>
> http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/mem-feb2005_3.html
>
>
> In particular, "iSupply thinks the volume of the DRAM market in money
terms
> ... only 2.6 percent above the year 2004 (compare this to the 51-percent
> difference between 2004 and 2003!)."
>
> Now, that's a red flag to anyone familiar with supply and demand and it
> wouldn't be terribly surprising if prices had spiked in 2004 vs 2003
> because of the dramatic increase in demand.
>
> Of course, that's only part of the picture because it doesn't take into
> account, among other things, production capacity changes but it *does*
show
> that the market is what drives prices and not your conspiracy theories.
>
> Nevertheless, "reduced prices at the end of January: from $4.02 for a
512Mb
> DDR400 chip at the very beginning of the year to $3.8."
>
> So much for perpetually increasing memory prices.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

DIsk storage for one thing. Memory is a commodity and is made anywhere if
it is profitable enough.
"JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
news:rVnTd.4777$vS.1337@fe02.lga...
> interjection if I may......
>
>
> What product of any meaning has increased in fundamental quality, and has
> decreased in price? Even water is more expensive than it was last year.
>
> The conspiracy is not focused on memory for a PC, it is much larger.
Global
> diversification of the manufacturing of products, leading to global
economy.
> Memory prices sustain a countries existence and the crooks who govern it
> (not yours or mine in this case).
>
>
> "David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
> news:111omj47dsu1711@corp.supernews.com...
> > aether wrote:
> >
> > >>>>I just purchased 1 GB of quality Corsair DDR400 memory for about
> > >
> > > $150.<<<
> > >
> > > Even still, that's more than a 10% increase over the $120 module I
> > > spoke of. What type of Corsair DDR400 memory was it, specifically?
> > > Also, was it a single module or twin? Remember, I said 'quality'
> > > module. In addition, the module I was referring to was top of the
line.
> > > It's equivalent today would probably be the 'XMS Extreme'.
> > >
>
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-511&depa=0
> )
> > > It's currently priced at $279.50. (and is sold out..)
> > >
> > > I recall the difficulty of installing old memory, and the price per
MB.
> > > I'm speaking of the recent; the last few years specifically. The
prices
> > > are increasing. That simply can't be denied.
> > >
> >
> > As I said before, you only look at the bits and pieces that fit your
> > conspiracy theory.
> >
> > See here
> >
> > Memory Market Overview: February 2005
> >
> > http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/mem-feb2005_3.html
> >
> >
> > In particular, "iSupply thinks the volume of the DRAM market in money
> terms
> > ... only 2.6 percent above the year 2004 (compare this to the
51-percent
> > difference between 2004 and 2003!)."
> >
> > Now, that's a red flag to anyone familiar with supply and demand and it
> > wouldn't be terribly surprising if prices had spiked in 2004 vs 2003
> > because of the dramatic increase in demand.
> >
> > Of course, that's only part of the picture because it doesn't take into
> > account, among other things, production capacity changes but it *does*
> show
> > that the market is what drives prices and not your conspiracy theories.
> >
> > Nevertheless, "reduced prices at the end of January: from $4.02 for a
> 512Mb
> > DDR400 chip at the very beginning of the year to $3.8."
> >
> > So much for perpetually increasing memory prices.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

JAD wrote:

> interjection if I may......

Sure.

>
> What product of any meaning has increased in fundamental quality, and has
> decreased in price?

Electronics in general.

> Even water is more expensive than it was last year.

Part of the problems is trying to measure things in inappropriate time
frames while ignoring other factors and causes.

>
> The conspiracy is not focused on memory for a PC,

Well, *his* is, and that's the conspiracy theory I was dealing with.

> it is much larger. Global
> diversification of the manufacturing of products, leading to global economy.
> Memory prices sustain a countries existence and the crooks who govern it
> (not yours or mine in this case).

There are so many factors involved that it's impossible to make simple
generic statements but that isn't caused by 'diversification'. It's because
of the disparate economies and pay scales. But that doesn't cause 'high'
prices, as the 'conspiracy theory' claims, it results in cheaper product
prices to the higher wage paying 'buyer' economies.


> "David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
> news:111omj47dsu1711@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>aether wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>I just purchased 1 GB of quality Corsair DDR400 memory for about
>>>
>>>$150.<<<
>>>
>>>Even still, that's more than a 10% increase over the $120 module I
>>>spoke of. What type of Corsair DDR400 memory was it, specifically?
>>>Also, was it a single module or twin? Remember, I said 'quality'
>>>module. In addition, the module I was referring to was top of the line.
>>>It's equivalent today would probably be the 'XMS Extreme'.
>>>
>
> (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-511&depa=0
> )
>
>>>It's currently priced at $279.50. (and is sold out..)
>>>
>>>I recall the difficulty of installing old memory, and the price per MB.
>>>I'm speaking of the recent; the last few years specifically. The prices
>>>are increasing. That simply can't be denied.
>>>
>>
>>As I said before, you only look at the bits and pieces that fit your
>>conspiracy theory.
>>
>>See here
>>
>>Memory Market Overview: February 2005
>>
>>http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/mem-feb2005_3.html
>>
>>
>>In particular, "iSupply thinks the volume of the DRAM market in money
>
> terms
>
>> ... only 2.6 percent above the year 2004 (compare this to the 51-percent
>>difference between 2004 and 2003!)."
>>
>>Now, that's a red flag to anyone familiar with supply and demand and it
>>wouldn't be terribly surprising if prices had spiked in 2004 vs 2003
>>because of the dramatic increase in demand.
>>
>>Of course, that's only part of the picture because it doesn't take into
>>account, among other things, production capacity changes but it *does*
>
> show
>
>>that the market is what drives prices and not your conspiracy theories.
>>
>>Nevertheless, "reduced prices at the end of January: from $4.02 for a
>
> 512Mb
>
>>DDR400 chip at the very beginning of the year to $3.8."
>>
>>So much for perpetually increasing memory prices.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
news:111t1hqr4u6pf86@corp.supernews.com...
> JAD wrote:
>
>> interjection if I may......
>
> Sure.
>
>>
>> What product of any meaning has increased in fundamental quality, and has
>> decreased in price?
>
> Electronics in general.

general is the key word there... cars? radios? computers? or is it
complexity that makes it better quality? definition of 'better'?
although things are faster and more complex for me doesn't mean quality.
thy still use 486's 'reliably' in many high tech applications.
>> Even water is more expensive than it was last year.
>
> Part of the problems is trying to measure things in inappropriate time
> frames while ignoring other factors and causes.

water 6 years ago? or were you reffering to the op's use of time frames?
>
>>
>> The conspiracy is not focused on memory for a PC,
>
> Well, *his* is, and that's the conspiracy theory I was dealing with.
>

yes i understand...but it is the stepping stone to the 'bigger' picture so i
thought i would interject.
Someone said 'you can build memory anywhere'. The tech and machinery have
been available for awhile now.
why is it that there is only a select few places that make memory in enough
supply to be a 'player' in the price game?
Its planned that way. Fixed so that if anyone else tries to break into the
market on a large scale, would be squashed in
no time.

>> it is much larger. Global
>> diversification of the manufacturing of products, leading to global
>> economy.
>> Memory prices sustain a countries existence and the crooks who govern it
>> (not yours or mine in this case).
>
> There are so many factors involved that it's impossible to make simple
> generic statements but that isn't caused by 'diversification'. It's
> because of the disparate economies and pay scales. But that doesn't cause
> 'high' prices, as the 'conspiracy theory' claims, it results in cheaper
> product prices to the higher wage paying 'buyer' economies.
>
>
I hate typing long winded explainations for every generalzation. I think
most people that are interested in the topic would be able to fill in the
blanks.Pay scales and such play a huge part in why 'they' are controlling
where and what gets manufactured there.

>> "David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
>> news:111omj47dsu1711@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>aether wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>I just purchased 1 GB of quality Corsair DDR400 memory for about
>>>>
>>>>$150.<<<
>>>>
>>>>Even still, that's more than a 10% increase over the $120 module I
>>>>spoke of. What type of Corsair DDR400 memory was it, specifically?
>>>>Also, was it a single module or twin? Remember, I said 'quality'
>>>>module. In addition, the module I was referring to was top of the line.
>>>>It's equivalent today would probably be the 'XMS Extreme'.
>>>>
>>
>> (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-511&depa=0
>> )
>>
>>>>It's currently priced at $279.50. (and is sold out..)
>>>>
>>>>I recall the difficulty of installing old memory, and the price per MB.
>>>>I'm speaking of the recent; the last few years specifically. The prices
>>>>are increasing. That simply can't be denied.
>>>>
>>>
>>>As I said before, you only look at the bits and pieces that fit your
>>>conspiracy theory.
>>>
>>>See here
>>>
>>>Memory Market Overview: February 2005
>>>
>>>http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/mem-feb2005_3.html
>>>
>>>
>>>In particular, "iSupply thinks the volume of the DRAM market in money
>>
>> terms
>>
>>> ... only 2.6 percent above the year 2004 (compare this to the
>>> 51-percent
>>>difference between 2004 and 2003!)."
>>>
>>>Now, that's a red flag to anyone familiar with supply and demand and it
>>>wouldn't be terribly surprising if prices had spiked in 2004 vs 2003
>>>because of the dramatic increase in demand.
>>>
>>>Of course, that's only part of the picture because it doesn't take into
>>>account, among other things, production capacity changes but it *does*
>>
>> show
>>
>>>that the market is what drives prices and not your conspiracy theories.
>>>
>>>Nevertheless, "reduced prices at the end of January: from $4.02 for a
>>
>> 512Mb
>>
>>>DDR400 chip at the very beginning of the year to $3.8."
>>>
>>>So much for perpetually increasing memory prices.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

JAD wrote:
> "David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
> news:111t1hqr4u6pf86@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>JAD wrote:
>>
>>
>>>interjection if I may......
>>
>>Sure.
>>
>>
>>>What product of any meaning has increased in fundamental quality, and has
>>>decreased in price?
>>
>>Electronics in general.
>
>
> general is the key word there... cars? radios? computers? or is it
> complexity that makes it better quality?

The manufacturing process does. In particular, those that lend themselves
to automation. And I include integration (as in circuits) in that.

> definition of 'better'?
> although things are faster and more complex for me doesn't mean quality.
> thy still use 486's 'reliably' in many high tech applications.

A reliability analysis also has to take into account what's being done and
capabilities. I.E a single transistor has pretty impressive reliability
specs but it doesn't do a whole lot all by itself.

Compare the reliability of, say, 100 486 systems to a single modern system
and see how it comes out.

However, I'm not sure why you decided to throw 'quality' into the 'price
conspiracy' mix. It's a different issue.


>>>Even water is more expensive than it was last year.
>>
>>Part of the problems is trying to measure things in inappropriate time
>>frames while ignoring other factors and causes.
>
>
> water 6 years ago? or were you reffering to the op's use of time frames?
>
>>>The conspiracy is not focused on memory for a PC,
>>
>>Well, *his* is, and that's the conspiracy theory I was dealing with.
>>
>
>
> yes i understand...but it is the stepping stone to the 'bigger' picture so i
> thought i would interject.
> Someone said 'you can build memory anywhere'. The tech and machinery have
> been available for awhile now.

The tech and machinery are available but that doesn't mean it's a good idea
to slap one just any old place.

> why is it that there is only a select few places that make memory in enough
> supply to be a 'player' in the price game?
> Its planned that way. Fixed so that if anyone else tries to break into the
> market on a large scale, would be squashed in
> no time.

Planned and 'fixed' by WHO?

But the premise is fundamentally flawed to begin with as the 'popular'
place has moved over the years. Japan, after WWII, being the first followed
by South Korea, Taiwan, and now a shift into China.


>>>it is much larger. Global
>>>diversification of the manufacturing of products, leading to global
>>>economy.
>>>Memory prices sustain a countries existence and the crooks who govern it
>>>(not yours or mine in this case).
>>
>>There are so many factors involved that it's impossible to make simple
>>generic statements but that isn't caused by 'diversification'. It's
>>because of the disparate economies and pay scales. But that doesn't cause
>>'high' prices, as the 'conspiracy theory' claims, it results in cheaper
>>product prices to the higher wage paying 'buyer' economies.
>>
>>
>
> I hate typing long winded explainations for every generalzation. I think
> most people that are interested in the topic would be able to fill in the
> blanks.Pay scales and such play a huge part in why 'they' are controlling
> where and what gets manufactured there.

Well, you call it "controlling" and others call it "exploitation." Depends
on which is your favored 'conspiracy'.

The 'simple' version is they have a sufficiently capable work for that will
work for less and that makes the area attractive to put a plant in, or buy
product from because it costs less.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On 19 Feb 2005 18:00:07 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
>prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
>laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
>then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
>on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
>look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
>realize this.

That's the current business model for the 21st century. Most things
in your home are manufactured at a pittance in a third world country
with a 3 to 4 hundred percent profit margin built in at the point of
sale. Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
controlling the lives of most people on this planet..

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

soinie wrote:
> On 19 Feb 2005 18:00:07 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
>>prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
>>laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
>>then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
>>on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
>>look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
>>realize this.
>
>
> That's the current business model for the 21st century. Most things
> in your home are manufactured at a pittance in a third world country
> with a 3 to 4 hundred percent profit margin built in at the point of
> sale.

Why don't you post the financials for one of these companies making "3 to 4
hundred percent profit margin?"

> Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
> movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
> controlling the lives of most people on this planet..

The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

David Maynard wrote:

> Why don't you post the financials for one of these companies making "3 to
> 4 hundred percent profit margin?"

Michael Jordan made more from endorsing Nike than the entire sweatshop labor
force combined did that actually made the shoes/clothing. That's scary...


--

Registered Linux user #378193

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus (More info?)

Ruel Smith wrote:

> David Maynard wrote:
>
>
>>Why don't you post the financials for one of these companies making "3 to
>>4 hundred percent profit margin?"
>
>
> Michael Jordan made more from endorsing Nike than the entire sweatshop labor
> force combined did that actually made the shoes/clothing. That's scary...


Well, it's 'scary' what celebrities, in general, make.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
wrote:

>soinie wrote:
>> On 19 Feb 2005 18:00:07 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
>>>prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
>>>laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
>>>then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
>>>on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
>>>look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
>>>realize this.
>>
>>
>> That's the current business model for the 21st century. Most things
>> in your home are manufactured at a pittance in a third world country
>> with a 3 to 4 hundred percent profit margin built in at the point of
>> sale.
>
>Why don't you post the financials for one of these companies making "3 to 4
>hundred percent profit margin?"

Why don't you do it yourself? I don't need to convince myself that
I'm correct.

>
>> Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
>> movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
>> controlling the lives of most people on this planet..

>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.

You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

soinie wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>soinie wrote:
>>
>>>On 19 Feb 2005 18:00:07 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
>>>>prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
>>>>laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
>>>>then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
>>>>on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
>>>>look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
>>>>realize this.
>>>
>>>
>>>That's the current business model for the 21st century. Most things
>>>in your home are manufactured at a pittance in a third world country
>>>with a 3 to 4 hundred percent profit margin built in at the point of
>>>sale.
>>
>>Why don't you post the financials for one of these companies making "3 to 4
>>hundred percent profit margin?"
>
>
> Why don't you do it yourself? I don't need to convince myself that
> I'm correct.

For one, because it is the burden of 'the accuser' to support the accusation.

Secondly, because I know it's a complete waste of time trying to find that
which does not exist.


>>> Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
>>>movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
>>>controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
>
>
>>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
>
>
> You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".

The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:

> soinie wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
> > wrote:
> > > < someone else, long ago unattributed, wrote: >
> >>>
> >>> Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
> >>>movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
> >>>controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
> >
> >>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
> >
> > You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".
>
> The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.

Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Kelly Humphries wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>
>
>>soinie wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>< someone else, long ago unattributed, wrote: >
>>>>
>>>>>Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
>>>>>movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
>>>>>controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
>>>
>>>>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
>>>
>>>You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".
>>
>>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
>
>
> Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.

If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
you're living in a movie.

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

don't dismiss movies and theatrics as a form of information. Although its
exaggerated, media of any kind can be informative. Even so called 'spam' can
give info that is 'usable'.

"David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
news:1126b4c3dgkq39c@corp.supernews.com...
> Kelly Humphries wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
> >
> >
> >>soinie wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>< someone else, long ago unattributed, wrote: >
> >>>>
> >>>>>Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
> >>>>>movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
> >>>>>controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
> >>>
> >>>>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
> >>>
> >>>You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".
> >>
> >>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
> >
> >
> > Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
>
> If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
> one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
> you're living in a movie.
>
>

 

[Dave]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"soinie" <soinie@hotttmail.com> wrote in message
news:atf121d4etmqap6bhlg1dikjie7mtsdde2@4ax.com...
> On 19 Feb 2005 18:00:07 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
>>prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
>>laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
>>then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
>>on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
>>look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
>>realize this.
>
> That's the current business model for the 21st century. Most things
> in your home are manufactured at a pittance in a third world country
> with a 3 to 4 hundred percent profit margin built in at the point of
> sale. Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
> movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
> controlling the lives of most people on this planet..

Gee, since it is a movie, it MUST be true....

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:36:59 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
wrote:

>Kelly Humphries wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>>
>>
>>>soinie wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>< someone else, long ago unattributed, wrote: >
>>>>>
>>>>>>Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
>>>>>>movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
>>>>>>controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
>>>>
>>>>>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
>>>>
>>>>You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".
>>>
>>>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
>>
>>
>> Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
>
>If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
>one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
>you're living in a movie.


How do you know it's a blatant propaganda piece? You still think it's
a "movie".

 

[Hackworth]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109144441.784331.65180@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> The price of memory is increasing.
>
> Rising DRAM prices could prompt vendors to cut bundled memory, analysts
> warn.
> April 21, 2004
> http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0%2Caid%2C115776%2C00.asp

Good! Then let the free market correct the problem. If sales of PCs fall
because people don't want to buy systems with less bundled memory, then
memory makers will either have to find a way to lower their prices or PC
makers will have to find sources for lower-priced memory. The memory makers
can't make money if fewer people are buying their memory. That's how it
works.


> "This week, spot pricing in Asian markets for a 256MB module containing
> 266MHz of DDR DRAM was around $39.50, according to market analyst
> ICIS-LOR, which tracks memory pricing. By comparison, the same modules
> were selling on the spot market or around $28.25 on January 1 and for
> around $25.00 on April 1, 2003, the analysts say.
>
> Spot prices for other memory types, such as SDRAM and 333MHz DDR, have
> also shown significant gains during this period."
>
> The price of high-end video cards has also increased. Three years ago,
> the consensus best graphics card was the Radeon 9700. The average price
> for this card was roughly $350. Today, the high-end card from ATI, the
> X850. The best versions of this graphics card are routinely priced
> above $700. The low-end version of this card is $545.
> (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA=0&description=14-131-301&CMP=OTC-pr1c3watch&ATT=Video+Cards)
>
> A quality 512MB DRAM module, three years ago, cost around $120. Keep in
> mind, that was essentially all that was necessary for a PC. Today,
> since 1GB is essential, you must be prepared to pay at least double
> that to have the same qualitative memory. Even more, if you prefer a
> single DIMM.
>
> DRAM Pricing: The Fix Is In - May 12, 2003 -
> http://www.newsforge.com/hardware/03/05/12/0125221.shtml?tid=7
>
> To deny the intent of these companies, which is to increase profits and
> please shareholders, is sheer folly.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

JAD wrote:

> don't dismiss movies and theatrics as a form of information. Although its
> exaggerated, media of any kind can be informative. Even so called 'spam' can
> give info that is 'usable'.

Oh, I agree and am not dismissing the potential usefulness of movies as a
thought provoking mechanism but I also would never use an obviously biased
propaganda piece, be it movie, print, or anything else, as 'supporting
evidence'.


> "David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
> news:1126b4c3dgkq39c@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Kelly Humphries wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>soinie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>< someone else, long ago unattributed, wrote: >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
>>>>>>>movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
>>>>>>>controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
>>>>>
>>>>>>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
>>>>>
>>>>>You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".
>>>>
>>>>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
>>>
>>>
>>>Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
>>
>>If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
>>one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
>>you're living in a movie.
>>
>>
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

soinie wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 08:36:59 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Kelly Humphries wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>soinie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:44:21 -0600, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>< someone else, long ago unattributed, wrote: >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Corporate philosophy is one of pure exploitation. Go see the
>>>>>>>movie, "The Corporation" for an enlightened perspective of what is
>>>>>>>controlling the lives of most people on this planet..
>>>>>
>>>>>>The last place to look for facts is Hollywood.
>>>>>
>>>>>You're a really well informed bastard; it wasn't made by "Hollywood".
>>>>
>>>>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
>>>
>>>
>>>Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
>>
>>If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
>>one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
>>you're living in a movie.
>
>
>
> How do you know it's a blatant propaganda piece?

Because I researched it.

> You still think it's
> a "movie".

Are the pictures stagnant?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Matt wrote:

> JAD wrote:
>
>> don't dismiss movies and theatrics as a form of information. Although its
>> exaggerated, media of any kind can be informative. Even so called
>> 'spam' can
>> give info that is 'usable'.
>
>
> True, and there is often edible food to be found in garbage cans.

hehe

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On 19 Feb 2005 18:00:07 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>That sums up the entire industry. The prices aren't coming down. The
>prices have remained the same for the past six months. They pay cheap
>laborers in Asia a few cents an hour to manufacture this hardware, and
>then turn around and make a 1000% profit. I'd love to see this turned
>on them. (e.g. mass produced hardware flood the market via Asia) One
>look at the prices they're charging for video cards is all you need to
>realize this.


Warner to sell cut-rate DVDs in China

The Associated Press
Updated: 5:00 p.m. ET Feb. 24, 2005


BEIJING - Taking its battle against rampant piracy of films and music
to the front lines, Warner Home Video said Thursday it will sell
cut-rate DVDs in China in a bid to compete on the counterfeiters' home
turf.

Basic DVDs, to be available shortly after a film's theatrical release,
will sell in China for as little as 22 yuan ($2.65), the company
announced. That's still more than the pirated versions readily
available in China for 8 yuan ($1).

"But we think with earlier availability, better quality, assured
quality, more sophisticated retailing and the fact that it's the real
thing, that we can compete," said Jim Cardwell, president of Warner
Home Video, a division of Time Warner Inc.

Warner's basic versions will not carry any DVD extras such as
directors' interviews and behind-the-scenes footage, the company said.

But versions with more features will be available a bit later for 28
yuan ($3.38).

The company hopes its efforts will convince the Chinese government to
do more to stamp out the fakes. "It's very difficult for a government
to pull product from its consumers when the manufacturers don't have a
legitimate alternative," Caldwell said.

Theft in China of copyrights and patents cost Western companies an
estimated $16 billion in lost sales each year. Despite sporadic
arrests, counterfeit books, DVDs and music are easily available on
almost every city street and even in shops.

As for how Warner would justify charging U.S. consumers far more for
DVDs, "I don't that's an issue," Caldwell said. "I think that
historically, prices of entertainment around the world have always
been different country to country."

Warner Home Video said it is distributing its cut-rate DVDs in a joint
venture with the state-owned company China Audio Video, becoming the
first U.S. studio to distribute and market DVDs inside China.

This year, the company plans to offer more than 125 movies to Chinese
consumers.

How much do you pay for a new DVD?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:

> Kelly Humphries wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
> >>
> >>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
> >
> > Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
>
> If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
> one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
> you're living in a movie.

Interesting outlook you've got there ... an entire class of information is
suspect because of the way it's recorded and transmitted, while those who
question this are somehow not quite right. I would at first think that
you're serious, but then I have to remember where I'm reading it. ;-)

In an effort to drag this thread back on topic (fruitless, I know), I'll
ask if mebbe someone could sell me two unopened sticks of 512MB PC3200
for, hmmmm ... twenty bucks. That's what I've got left in my pocket after
upgrading everything, so that's currently what my market can bear.

And if you think THAT sounds riculous, well, when I have the transaction
put on film you'll know that it couldn't POSSIBLY be for real.... ;-)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 05:41:06 -0800, Kelly Humphries
<kpisces@speakeasy.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>
>> Kelly Humphries wrote:
>>
>> > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>> >>
>> >>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
>> >
>> > Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
>>
>> If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
>> one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
>> you're living in a movie.
>
>Interesting outlook you've got there ... an entire class of information is
>suspect because of the way it's recorded and transmitted, while those who
>question this are somehow not quite right. I would at first think that
>you're serious, but then I have to remember where I'm reading it. ;-)
>
>In an effort to drag this thread back on topic (fruitless, I know), I'll
>ask if mebbe someone could sell me two unopened sticks of 512MB PC3200
>for, hmmmm ... twenty bucks. That's what I've got left in my pocket after
>upgrading everything, so that's currently what my market can bear.
>
>And if you think THAT sounds riculous, well, when I have the transaction
>put on film you'll know that it couldn't POSSIBLY be for real.... ;-)

Amazing how the truth becomes propaganda because it isn't part of the
corporate agenda.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005, Hackworth wrote:

> "Kelly Humphries" wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
> >
> >> Kelly Humphries wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
> >> >
> >> > Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
> >>
> >> If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
> >> one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
> >> you're living in a movie.
> >
> > Interesting outlook you've got there ... an entire class of information is
> > suspect because of the way it's recorded and transmitted, while those who
> > question this are somehow not quite right. I would at first think that
> > you're serious, but then I have to remember where I'm reading it. ;-)
> >
> > In an effort to drag this thread back on topic (fruitless, I know), I'll
> > ask if mebbe someone could sell me two unopened sticks of 512MB PC3200
> > for, hmmmm ... twenty bucks. That's what I've got left in my pocket after
> > upgrading everything, so that's currently what my market can bear.
>
> So what's your point? Get a job (or a better job) so that you can earn more
> money to pay for the RAM you want. Why are you whining here?

LOL.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

soinie wrote:

> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 05:41:06 -0800, Kelly Humphries
> <kpisces@speakeasy.org> wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Kelly Humphries wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, David Maynard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>The term is used to mean 'a movie' in general.
>>>>
>>>>Which makes your argument weaker than it was before.
>>>
>>>If you think movies, and especially a blatant propaganda piece like that
>>>one, are a reliable source of good factual 'real world' information then
>>>you're living in a movie.
>>
>>Interesting outlook you've got there ... an entire class of information is
>>suspect because of the way it's recorded and transmitted, while those who
>>question this are somehow not quite right. I would at first think that
>>you're serious, but then I have to remember where I'm reading it. ;-)
>>
>>In an effort to drag this thread back on topic (fruitless, I know), I'll
>>ask if mebbe someone could sell me two unopened sticks of 512MB PC3200
>>for, hmmmm ... twenty bucks. That's what I've got left in my pocket after
>>upgrading everything, so that's currently what my market can bear.
>>
>>And if you think THAT sounds riculous, well, when I have the transaction
>>put on film you'll know that it couldn't POSSIBLY be for real.... ;-)
>
>
> Amazing how the truth becomes propaganda because it isn't part of the
> corporate agenda.

Something is propaganda because of the techniques used, not necessarily
because of the position taken, and your statement is a small example of a
few. For one, the self righteous declaration of "truth" without supporting
evidence, as if a declaration is sufficient, simply because the material
apparently comports with your preconceived notions and, secondly, guilt by
association and the use of a presumed pejorative "corporate agenda" which
is, itself, a collection of bundled assumptions without even a definition,
and, of course, the ever popular broad sweeping generalization. The intent
of which being to bypass the issues entirely and present the 'choice' as
simply 'goodness' vs 'evil' with who is which being predefined by the
presenter.

The movie in question, and the inspirational material from which it was
derived, employ, among others, similar tactics even to it's primary
construct; which is to take a Supreme Court legalism they themselves argue
is invalid, transform it into an absurdity, and then further expand the
absurdity into a pseudo psychoanalysis of the absurd 'being' they contend
doesn't exist in the first place.

It's amusing, inventive, and quite clever, in the deceptive sense of the
word, but still, essentially, a traditional propaganda demonization tactic
based on an irrational absurdity. I.e. 'Corporations' are 'demented' even
though we know that 'corporations', even if the global generalization that
they're all the same were even close to true, can not possibly be a 'being'
to which the term could apply.

That doesn't necessarily mean I like the Supreme Court decision or think
that corporations are all sweetness and light. It simply means I can
recognize propaganda when I see it.