News Russia Aims to Mass Produce 28nm Chips by 2027, 14nm by 2030

[Admin]

Russian ministry re-emphasizes ambitious semiconductor roadmap.

Russia Aims to Mass Produce 28nm Chips by 2027, 14nm by 2030 : Read more

 

[peachpuff]

I didn't know toms has wondered off into satarical content like the onion...

 

[Ravestein NL]

Well, then it's clear that Russia is going to export to China

 

[ThomasKinsley]

Well, then it's clear that Russia is going to export to China

I take it the other way around. China just announced a domestic 28nm scanner, and evidence indicates they already have a complex process for 7nm. Most likely Russia and China have an agreement in which China will share the technology with Russia.

 

[bugzrrad]

> The plan is projected to be finalized and sent for official approval by the prime minister on April 22, 2022.

wat

 

[Order 66]

we will be on sub 1nm by then. Russia (and china) have a long way to go to produce advanced nodes domestically.

 

[Geef]

One great part about all of this is most chips don't need to be just a few nanometers. Besides your phone and your PC there aren't many items around that need smaller than 28nm. Anything that existed before the turn of the century can still be made with larger than 28nm.

 

[satai]

Shipyards building luxury yachts love this news.

 

[IBM296]

Russia can save itself all the hassle. China is already on 28nm and will be at 5nm or 3nm by 2030. Just ask China for help XD.

 

[sygreenblum]

Russia can save itself all the hassle. China is already on 28nm and will be at 5nm or 3nm by 2030. Just ask China for help XD.

Without EUV that would by quite a feat.

 

[IBM296]

Without EUV that would by quite a feat.

3-4 years remaining till China has its own EUV machines.

 

[ivan_vy]

One great part about all of this is most chips don't need to be just a few nanometers. Besides your phone and your PC there aren't many items around that need smaller than 28nm. Anything that existed before the turn of the century can still be made with larger than 28nm.

this is exactly the goal, cheap in-house for consumer and non-critical hardware and import chinese chips for military and research applications, better keep an eye on China and the fast advancements they are doing to counter the USA sanctions.

 

[purpleduggy]

im in favor of this. the more semiconductor indistries the better chips we will get for less as consumers. there has been a profit incentivized progress bottleneck for decades because onlyba few companies can make chips. the us and china should help grow semiconductor industries in india as well as africa and south america. there should be low cost riscv fabs on every continent competing. semiconductor lithography fabs take up whole factory floors now, but in the future they will be much smaller and affordable. even garage sized so you can make chips at home.

 

[Air2004]

I was thinking the same thing..... 2022.
Is this the winter Olympics, red pill or the blue pill .... have I slipped back to the future, Where is Doc ?

 

[TerryLaze]

im in favor of this. the more semiconductor indistries the better chips we will get for less as consumers. there has been a profit incentivized progress bottleneck for decades because onlyba few companies can make chips. the us and china should help grow semiconductor industries in india as well as africa and south america. there should be low cost riscv fabs on every continent competing. semiconductor lithography fabs take up whole factory floors now, but in the future they will be much smaller and affordable. even garage sized so you can make chips at home.

Yeah, that's not how that works, 28 and even 14nm is dirt cheap already and that is if their 28 and 14 will even be anywhere near the same dimensions as the rest of the industry. Then it's not just about the node but also about the complexity of design that they will actually be able to produce, if they can make ram and not much else they won't be competitive at all.

Also forcing FABs to sell chips for cheaper will just make the FABs be non profitable and shut down giving us less options for chips...

 

[George³]

we will be on sub 1nm by then. Russia (and china) have a long way to go to produce advanced nodes domestically.

Yes I agree, marketing numbers will be sub 1nm. Real dimensions of gates and pitches no.
Ps. About future of nanometers article. On slide read roll with dimensions of "metal pitch".

 

[NihonKuma]

the

That's not what this is about. Russia is planning to make subpar chips to bypass Western sanctions, not to introduce competition to the international market. Consumers outside of the new iron curtain will never see these chips, not that they would want to anyway since they'll be years behind what already exists. Naturally, seeing as these chips will be reverse engineered from existing Western/Taiwanese technology.

 

[purpleduggy]

Yeah, that's not how that works, 28 and even 14nm is dirt cheap already and that is if their 28 and 14 will even be anywhere near the same dimensions as the rest of the industry. Then it's not just about the node but also about the complexity of design that they will actually be able to produce, if they can make ram and not much else they won't be competitive at all.

Also forcing FABs to sell chips for cheaper will just make the FABs be non profitable and shut down giving us less options for chips...

it is how it works, you just have a skill issue. with AI, common precision machines and advanced lithography becoming commonplace as well as open designs like RISCV the whole semiconductor market is going to pivot to local manufacturing. the machines are still highly specialized, but when lithography machines become mass produced it will be commonplace. in the 17th century no one thought mass produced cotton mills were possible. textiles were incredibly expensive, but those cotton mills became possible. the same will happen to semiconductors. the larger size nm nodes will become DIY lithography and commonplace as 3d printing a 3d design.
think you can't make chips at home? look at this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS5ycm7VfXg

 

[purpleduggy]

That's not what this is about. Russia is planning to make subpar chips to bypass Western sanctions, not to introduce competition to the international market. Consumers outside of the new iron curtain will never see these chips, not that they would want to anyway since they'll be years behind what already exists. Naturally, seeing as these chips will be reverse engineered from existing Western/Taiwanese technology.

i could care less what the current political situation entails. its as temporary as the seasons that change constantly. unless you haven't realized, people are not their leaders, unless you think i should judge you by some of the terrible leaders the US and EU countries as well as Taiwan has had. i wont however. i only care about tech. leaders are usually clueless old boomers who have zero idea where technology is headed and are responsible for the slow progress of tech for eg. only investing $20 Billion into chip tech with TSMC when they should invest $20 Trillion to push the tech. Taiwanese fabs copied American designs, who copied European designs. this is how technology works. when technology is invented you are are supposed to copy it so that it can advance. unless you think that technology should remain stagnant because you prefer maximizing profit? I don't care about profit if it stagnates tech. Profit should advance tech.

 

[TerryLaze]

it is how it works, you just have a skill issue. with AI, common precision machines and advanced lithography becoming commonplace as well as open designs like RISCV the whole semiconductor market is going to pivot to local manufacturing. the machines are still highly specialized, but when lithography machines become mass produced it will be commonplace. in the 17th century no one thought mass produced cotton mills were possible. textiles were incredibly expensive, but those cotton mills became possible. the same will happen to semiconductors. the larger size nm nodes will become DIY lithography and commonplace as 3d printing a 3d design.
think you can't make chips at home? look at this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS5ycm7VfXg

Are we still talking about russia and until 2027?!
I agree that in the timeframe you describe, 17th to 21th, so in 500 years what you talk about will happen, much sooner even.
But russia and until 2027?! Extremely unlikely.

 

[sygreenblum]

3-4 years remaining till China has its own EUV machines.

I highly, highly, highly, doubt it will be anywhere near that time frame. Even if by some miracle that's true, it will still take them time get the machines in working order and to produce enough to ship to Russia, that's simply not going to happen not by 2027, realistically not by 2037 either, unless there's some fundamental change. You can't just build an EUV machine like you would car or tank.

 

[NihonKuma]

i could care less what the current political situation entails. its as temporary as the seasons that change constantly. unless you haven't realized, people are not their leaders, unless you think i should judge you by some of the terrible leaders the US and EU countries as well as Taiwan has had. i wont however. i only care about tech. leaders are usually clueless old boomers who have zero idea where technology is headed and are responsible for the slow progress of tech for eg. only investing $20 Billion into chip tech with TSMC when they should invest $20 Trillion to push the tech. Taiwanese fabs copied American designs, who copied European designs. this is how technology works. when technology is invented you are are supposed to copy it so that it can advance. unless you think that technology should remain stagnant because you prefer maximizing profit? I don't care about profit if it stagnates tech. Profit should advance tech.

I fail to see how Russia being isolated/isolating itself from the international tech industry and producing its own knock-off versions of 10-year old Western chips will advance technology as a whole. Did the Soviet Union's tiny and subpar automotive industry force American car companies to do better? Not really, because it take an actual competitor to do that.

Nothing against copying technology/reverse-engineering in principle, but realistically the Russian chip industry has 0 chance bettering performance for mankind or whatnot. They're not trying to advance the sciences or even compete with the West, they're trying to produce outdated junk to make due under Western sanctions

 

[purpleduggy]

I fail to see how Russia being isolated/isolating itself from the international tech industry and producing its own knock-off versions of 10-year old Western chips will advance technology as a whole. Did the Soviet Union's tiny and subpar automotive industry force American car companies to do better? Not really, because it take an actual competitor to do that.

Nothing against copying technology/reverse-engineering in principle, but realistically the Russian chip industry has 0 chance bettering performance for mankind or whatnot. They're not trying to advance the sciences or even compete with the West, they're trying to produce outdated junk to make due under Western sanctions

nice try, but this attempt didn't work.
in a few decades all this current sentiment will be outdated, need to look to the future or you'll be stuck in the past. the chip industry should advance in all countries, I only care about the tech and furthering it.

 

[NihonKuma]

nice try, but this attempt didn't work.
in a few decades all this current sentiment will be outdated, need to look to the future or you'll be stuck in the past. the chip industry should advance in all countries, I only care about the tech and furthering it.

OK, let's look to the future.

2027: Russia produces 28nm chips domestically that are equivalent to TSMC's chips from 2011. (2027-2011=16 years behind)
Meanwhile TSMC+Western firms will be 8ish generations ahead at something less than 2nm.

I'll say it again since you seem to be purposefully not acknowledging this fact: Russia is not trying to make better chips than the West.

Please, give a single example of how Russia's plans will advance semiconductor technology.

https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic/l_28nm

 

[purpleduggy]

OK, let's look to the future.

2027: Russia produces 28nm chips domestically that are equivalent to TSMC's chips from 2011. (2027-2011=16 years behind)
Meanwhile TSMC+Western firms will be 8ish generations ahead at something less than 2nm.

I'll say it again since you seem to be purposefully not acknowledging this fact: Russia is not trying to make better chips than the West.

Please, give a single example of how Russia's plans will advance semiconductor technology.

https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/logic/l_28nm

most things don't need more advanced nodes than 28nm. especially automotive and consumer electronics. advanced nodes are only for cpus and gpus. on those items yes, 28nm will never cut it. but cpu and gpu manufacturing is so niche especially if you want to compete at the top that you need cutting edge to even take part. i want them to push for more advanced nodes so that 2nm becomes commonplace and sub nm is cutting edge at tsmc. the US should push far harder for node advancement and outinnovate. i want semiconductor fabs on every continent especially africa and south america. 28nm node manufacturing needs to drop immensely in price where all countries can buy machines to make chips. chip design and fabrication tech should become commonplace at 28nm.