[SOLVED] Ryzen 3600 vs i5 10400F vs i5 10400 best with (Stock Cooler)

[mraazx]

Hello,
I am currently using i3 8100 with RX 580 .
So if i want to upgrade now for next gen games which CPU should i go for
I will mention the price and Combo below ( in my local currency )

Combo 1 : i5 10400F + Gigabyte H410 S2h ( Price - 22,500 )
Combo 2 : i5 10400 + Gigabyte H410 S2h ( Price - 25,500 )
Combo 3 : Ryzen 5 3600 + MSI B450M Mortar Max ( Price - 26,500 )

My Purpose : Gaming + Work (Adobe , MS Office , Browsers etc )

Also I want to use stock cooler if possible. Which combo will be future proof and I will have better value for money and also I want to use long term
(the reason i only mentioned entry level mobo because 10th gen mobos are very expensive now)

Thanks in Advance
My GPU : RX 580 8GB Nitro+
RAM : GSKILL RIpjaws 5 2400 BUS (8X2) 16GB DDR4
PSU : Antec Neo Eco 550watt 80+ Bronze
CASE : Antec NX100 ( Single Fan 120MM)

 

[Jmi20]

What currency is this?

 

[Karadjgne]

Adobe scales with thread count, the 3600 will eat the 10400 for breakfast. If using Maya, the single core speeds of the Intel will be better.

 

[Jmi20]

I would go with the ryzen build, the stock cooler is very good on that

Im just speculating on your location, but if my assumption (if) is correct. Your combo 3 is way over priced. Is that the price of only the cpu and mobo?

 

[mraazx]

I would go with the ryzen build, the stock cooler is very good on that

Im just speculating on your location, but if my assumption (if) is correct. Your combo 3 is way over priced. Is that the price of only the cpu and mobo?

I am from Bangladesh . Yes its only CPU and MOBO . Another thing most of the review I saw locally has issues with their stock cooler i dont know why. Right now I am using i3 8100 and my stock temps are idle 45-50 , in gaming 72-78 ( Summer is going now so temp is high )

Many people here getting idle (55-60 ) and in load or gaming (85-90) in 3600 stock cooler , my worry is the stock cooler that bad considering its much power efficient chip its getting too hot?

 

[mraazx]

Adobe scales with thread count, the 3600 will eat the 10400 for breakfast. If using Maya, the single core speeds of the Intel will be better.

ok I got your point. I used to use Phenom 2 X4 and FX 4300 Back in the days so in that time gaming performance was not stable at all I know Ryzen Improved a lot but still is this stable like intel on gaming ?

 

[mitch074]

ok I got your point. I used to use Phenom 2 X4 and FX 4300 Back in the days so in that time gaming performance was not stable at all I know Ryzen Improved a lot but still is this stable like intel on gaming ?

Yes. Stability problems on Ryzen went away in 2018. Make sure your RAM is fast and you will be good to go (DDR4 3200 is a sweet spot of price and performance - I recommend Vengeance LPX).

 

[mraazx]

Yes. Stability problems on Ryzen went away in 2018. Make sure your RAM is fast and you will be good to go (DDR4 3200 is a sweet spot of price and performance - I recommend Vengeance LPX).

ok but I already have (2 x 8) 2400 Bus Gskill Ripjaws and I dont want to buy new ram now. is there massive difference in 2400 vs 3200 ? I hope its not

 

[mdd1963]

3600, every day

 

[Jmi20]

I am from Bangladesh . Yes its only CPU and MOBO . Another thing most of the review I saw locally has issues with their stock cooler i dont know why. Right now I am using i3 8100 and my stock temps are idle 45-50 , in gaming 72-78 ( Summer is going now so temp is high )

Many people here getting idle (55-60 ) and in load or gaming (85-90) in 3600 stock cooler , my worry is the stock cooler that bad considering its much power efficient chip its getting too hot?

Oh alright, I was close. Then the price is about right for combo 3. Never mind me!

Max temp of ryzen is 95c. You’re good below that. The ryzens cooler is better than the i5.

 

[RodroX]

The stock cooler for the Ryzen is not really good.

If your PC Case have really, but really good airflow and you live in a coldish weather it may do the job, but eventually most users (like me) end up getting atleast a cheap replacement that its miles away from the boxed cooler.

I agree with others the Ryzen 5 3600 with a decent cooler will perform better than the i5 10400 in most situations.

As for the stock cooler on the i5 is not great either, but I haven't had any experience with it so I can't talk too much.

As others mention for the Ryzen you want fast speed memory, DDR4 3200 is like the sweet spot right now (between price and performance).
And you can said the same thing about the intel chip. Its not the same a Core i5 10400 with DDR4 2400, than with DDR4 3200. The bad thing is that intel locked the XMP RAM profiles to work only in the Z490 boards. So even if you get the fast speed DDR4 3200, you wont be able to enable the XMP on a H410 or B460 intel chipset (unless intel said otherwise in the future).

 

[Deleted member 2720853]

Ryzen.

 

[Karadjgne]

Have to understand that it's a Ryzen, not an intel cpu. They are not the same thing, don't work the same, so can't compare apples to oranges, even if both are fruit.

At idle, Intel chops the voltages and speeds of all the cores, but all remain active. So any background tasks are split up between all the cores. That mean any one individual core sees very little load, and consequently lower temps. Any jumps in temps are due to services and/or processes starting up and bumping the load on a core. The temp spikes you see on Intel are the hottest core at any given moment, like when a service starts. 1 second it reads core #1, the next it reads core #6 etc.

With Ryzen at idle, All the cores except 1 preferred core are deactivated, put to sleep, stasis. So the entire background load is concentrated on 1 core. Which is a higher % of load, so temps are higher by default vs Intel. Then a service starts and the temp jumps higher. But the only temp read is that 1 core. So in idle it's normal to see Intels @ 10°C higher than ambient. With Ryzen, it's over 20°C usually.

So with a 22°C ambient room temp, Intels usually sit around 32°C and spike closer to 50°C. With Ryzens, expect closer to 45°C idle with spikes closer to 65°C. If your room ambient is @ 40°C, not hard for Ryzen to idle @ 60ish, spike closer to 90ish, but that's only on 1 core, not the entire cpu and not for longer than a second or three. This is where airflow is vitally important, getting the case ambient as low as possible, because that's the air the cpu cooler actually uses, not the room air. Crappy airflow with 40° room ambient, yes, makes for very warm idles and hot spikes.

 

[RodroX]

Have to understand that it's a Ryzen, not an intel cpu. They are not the same thing, don't work the same, so can't compare apples to oranges, even if both are fruit.

At idle, Intel chops the voltages and speeds of all the cores, but all remain active. So any background tasks are split up between all the cores. That mean any one individual core sees very little load, and consequently lower temps. Any jumps in temps are due to services and/or processes starting up and bumping the load on a core. The temp spikes you see on Intel are the hottest core at any given moment, like when a service starts. 1 second it reads core #1, the next it reads core #6 etc.

With Ryzen at idle, All the cores except 1 preferred core are deactivated, put to sleep, stasis. So the entire background load is concentrated on 1 core. Which is a higher % of load, so temps are higher by default vs Intel. Then a service starts and the temp jumps higher. But the only temp read is that 1 core. So in idle it's normal to see Intels @ 10°C higher than ambient. With Ryzen, it's over 20°C usually.

So with a 22°C ambient room temp, Intels usually sit around 32°C and spike closer to 50°C. With Ryzens, expect closer to 45°C idle with spikes closer to 65°C. If your room ambient is @ 40°C, not hard for Ryzen to idle @ 60ish, spike closer to 90ish, but that's only on 1 core, not the entire cpu and not for longer than a second or three. This is where airflow is vitally important, getting the case ambient as low as possible, because that's the air the cpu cooler actually uses, not the room air. Crappy airflow with 40° room ambient, yes, makes for very warm idles and hot spikes.

EXACTLY, this is why I don't explain this too much, cause theres no way I could have wroten that much this clear.

Wish I could use english more often in my day to day.

 

[mitch074]

ok but I already have (2 x 8) 2400 Bus Gskill Ripjaws and I dont want to buy new ram now. is there massive difference in 2400 vs 3200 ? I hope its not

There is some difference, but not too much if your RAM kit has low latency. Make sure you set timings to 1T instead of the default 2T in BIOS as AMD processors have always been more sensitive to timing than Intel's.
In some rare cases, it might be necessary to add 0.01V to RAM voltage for perfect stability, but with such a low RAM frequency, you shouldn't need to.

 

[mraazx]

Have to understand that it's a Ryzen, not an intel cpu. They are not the same thing, don't work the same, so can't compare apples to oranges, even if both are fruit.

At idle, Intel chops the voltages and speeds of all the cores, but all remain active. So any background tasks are split up between all the cores. That mean any one individual core sees very little load, and consequently lower temps. Any jumps in temps are due to services and/or processes starting up and bumping the load on a core. The temp spikes you see on Intel are the hottest core at any given moment, like when a service starts. 1 second it reads core #1, the next it reads core #6 etc.

With Ryzen at idle, All the cores except 1 preferred core are deactivated, put to sleep, stasis. So the entire background load is concentrated on 1 core. Which is a higher % of load, so temps are higher by default vs Intel. Then a service starts and the temp jumps higher. But the only temp read is that 1 core. So in idle it's normal to see Intels @ 10°C higher than ambient. With Ryzen, it's over 20°C usually.

So with a 22°C ambient room temp, Intels usually sit around 32°C and spike closer to 50°C. With Ryzens, expect closer to 45°C idle with spikes closer to 65°C. If your room ambient is @ 40°C, not hard for Ryzen to idle @ 60ish, spike closer to 90ish, but that's only on 1 core, not the entire cpu and not for longer than a second or three. This is where airflow is vitally important, getting the case ambient as low as possible, because that's the air the cpu cooler actually uses, not the room air. Crappy airflow with 40° room ambient, yes, makes for very warm idles and hot spikes.

Thanks for explaining it so detailed. So are you suggesting I should get aftermarket cooler if I get the ryzen ? like deepcool gammax GT .

Also what do you think for my combo 1 i5 10400F + Gigabyte H410 S2h this is cheaper but to be honest all i want a cpu that will give me support at least 3-4 years because I dont want to update rig frequently.

And If I get Aftermarket cooler then also I have to increase my budget so is ryzen 3600 worth it ? and overall if I take i5 10400F + Gigabyte H410 S2h it will save $70-80 if I use intel stock cooler.

My room temp is 35-40 degrees in summer , 10-25 in winter

Lastly I dont want to buy new ram for slight improvement as 16 GB is sweet-spot now I want to use it for 1-2 year more.

 

[Jmi20]

Both the intel and the amd would last you about that time, but you get better bang for the buck with the ryzen build...

A gammaxx 400 might do.

 

[Karadjgne]

I'm currently using i7-3770K. That's third generation Intel. We are on 10th generation. While the lower grade cpus like the 10400 are the first to become endangered, that's still not going to happen for quite some time.

The issue with Intel upgrades is that the larger cpus require much beefier VRM's and cooling, that board won't handle the i9's very well at all. Ryzens very rarely ever suffer from that, you could slap in a 3950x in that board with no worries.

 

[mraazx]

I'm currently using i7-3770K. That's third generation Intel. We are on 10th generation. While the lower grade cpus like the 10400 are the first to become endangered, that's still not going to happen for quite some time.

The issue with Intel upgrades is that the larger cpus require much beefier VRM's and cooling, that board won't handle the i9's very well at all. Ryzens very rarely ever suffer from that, you could slap in a 3950x in that board with no worries.

ok . Also my another question is the boost clock shows on modern processor like boost upto 4.2 or 4.3 ghz do I need good mobo with good VRM for that boost clock or it runs on normal mobos also ?

 

[Deleted member 2720853]

Yes, if you want the most out of your Ryzen, you do need good VRMs, cooling on said VRMs and good power delivery system. Also good cooling on the CPU itself. The Ryzen won't decrease in temps but it will use the extra headroom to boost higher.

 

[RodroX]

I got a really budget mobo, Gigabyte B450 Gaming X, and with the "low" power R5 3600 (can get up to 88 watts under load) I never had any issues with the boosting frecuency, not even as en early adopter (a year ago) when many people had this issues. And this motherboard does not really have a "great VRM".

There are tons of VRM motherboard reviews, for example, Hardware Unboxed and Gamer Nexus (which feature Bullzoid analysis and rambling), or even the same Bullzoid on its own channel Actually Hardcore Overclocking.
You just need to type the motherboatd type B550 + mobo recommendation (or similar) and go check them out.

 

[mraazx]

I got a really budget mobo, Gigabyte B450 Gaming X, and with the "low" power R5 3600 (can get up to 88 watts under load) I never had any issues with the boosting frecuency, not even as en early adopter (a year ago) when many people had this issues. And this motherboard does not really have a "great VRM".

There are tons of VRM motherboard reviews, for example, Hardware Unboxed and Gamer Nexus (which feature Bullzoid analysis and rambling), or even the same Bullzoid on its own channel Actually Hardcore Overclocking.
You just need to type the motherboatd type B550 + mobo recommendation (or similar) and go check them out.

Can you share your temps in idle and in load/gaming with Deepcool Gammax GTE?

Also your room temp?

 

[RodroX]

Can you share your temps in idle and in load/gaming with Deepcool Gammax GTE?

Also your room temp?

I got this values stored form my testing last year. This temps were taking in sprig time, so I would said around 23~26°C in the room (give it or take):

30' (mins) of looping Cinbench R20 multicore test, I got a max temp of 72,8 °C (according to hwinfo 64).
After 15' (mins) of playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider (1080p highest details), max temp was 70,6°C.

 

[mraazx]

I got this values stored form my testing last year. This temps were taking in sprig time, so I would said around 23~26°C in the room (give it or take):

30' (mins) of looping Cinbench R20 multicore test, I got a max temp of 72,8 °C (according to hwinfo 64).
After 15' (mins) of playing Shadow of the Tomb Raider (1080p highest details), max temp was 70,6°C.

That's Really Good Man! Also you have a very solid rig , cheers !

Sad part is including cooler many motherboards and stuffs are out of stock in my country and they dont have a date when it will be available again !

Finally , I am thinking I might go with :

i5 10400F + H410 Mainboard as I already have 2 stick 2400mhz Ram also this is way cheaper than Ryzen one . It saves me overall $70 if I use intel stock cooler

Reasons I dont want to go with Ryzen:

• Have to get better mainboard
• Definitely need better cooler
• Need to buy new ram (3200mhz)
• I wont do any video editing so it wont help much for me
• 6C/12T from intel will be enough for my need I think
• I dont need much headroom for future as when its time I will change both mobo and cpu

Things I will update in 1-2 year :
New RTX 3000 or AMD GPU ( Currently Using RX 580 Nitro+ 8gb )