Question Ryzen 7 2700X or i7-8700 for gaming?

Raraku

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Up until very recently I have been thinking intel all the way. However, with all the sales on Ryzen chips (and they may drop further leading to July), I find myself thinking it over again.

I think I'd probably give the 2700X more thought, however I am building in a SFF case (Node 202) and I really worry about that high TDP (105w vs. the 8700's 65w) in that small case, since it only accepts low profile coolers.

For reference, I'm also planning on either a 2080 or possibly even a 2080ti.

So, all fanboyism aside, if you were me, would you go for a 2700X or an i7-8700?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
2700X if they are your 2 choices
Virtually no difference in fps when using 1440p or more and not much when at 1080p either
Also more cores and better future proofing

 

Raraku

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Thank you all for the responses so far.

I am going more interested 1440p gaming and higher detail - I play some competitive games but not overly so.

I have also just been looking at a 2600x - it is a lot cheaper than the 2700x and seems to perform very similarly.

If I went with 2600x, which motherboard route should I go? Could I expect to get stable temps in the node 202 and even have a little room to overclock?
 
Thank you both for the motherboard suggestions.

I need two M.2 slots (already purchased the drives) but I notice that the second M.2 slot on the Asus motherboard is shared with the PCIe x16. Won't that impact performance of the GPU if I get a 2080 or 2080 ti?
No
The 2600X includes 20 PCIe lanes - 16 for a discrete graphics processor and 4 for storage (NVMe or 2 ports SATA Express)
 
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Raraku

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No
The 2600X includes 20 PCIe lanes - 16 for a discrete graphics processor and 4 for storage (NVMe or 2 ports SATA Express)
Thank you, but I need to be certain as this is a big decision. This is the quote from the ASUS X470 specifications page:

"AMD Ryzen 2nd Generation/Ryzen 1st Generation Processors
  • 1 x M.2_1 Socket 3 with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 (PCIE 3.0 x4 and SATA modes) storage devices support
  • 1 x M.2_2 Socket 3 with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 (PCIE 3.0 x4 mode) storage devices support*
*The M.2_2 slot shares with PCIE x16. When M.2_2 slot runs in PCIE mode, the PCIE x16 slot will run at x8 mode. "


So it won't run in x8 then?
 

Raraku

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What are the model numbers of your ordered Drives?
Also, you maybe lucky that this will have a bios patch to make it Pci-e 4.0 :)
I've already got an Intel 660p (2 TB) and a Samsung 970 Evo pro (512 GB boot drive).

So is that confirmation then that my GPU will be limited if I have an M.2 in slot 2?

Are there no itx boards that support 2 M.2s? How is that possible?
 

rigg42

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I'd recommend a different case. The thermals in the node 202 are terrible. At least if going horizontal. I just did a living room PC build with similar hardware in one. I did everything you can do to optimize CPU thermals and it still runs hotter than I'd like. I custom mounted 3 40 mm fans to exhaust hot air from the CPU chamber. I used a blower card to prevent the GPU from dumping a ton of hot air into the case. I used dual 120 intakes in the GPU chamber and put taller feet on to increase airflow. I removed the CPU dust filter and stuck the wraith spire cooler right up against the vent. Despite all of this my CPU temps were 10-12 higher than a mini itx tower I had the same CPU and cooler in.

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor
Motherboard: Asus - ROG Strix B450-I Gaming Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO 2 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11 GB Turbo Video Card
Case: Fractal Design - Node 202 HTPC Case
Power Supply: Corsair - SF 600 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit
Case Fan: Fractal Design - FD-FAN-SSR2-40 4.34 CFM 40 mm Fan
Case Fan: Fractal Design - FD-FAN-SSR2-40 4.34 CFM 40 mm Fan
Case Fan: Fractal Design - FD-FAN-SSR2-40 4.34 CFM 40 mm Fan
Custom: Lian Li SD-01B Black Aluminum Case Stand with Rubber Pad
Custom: Scythe Slip Stream 120 mm Slim Case Fan - PWM 2 TOTAL FANS

FYI if you are dead set on the Node you can fit a 64 mm tall cooler with the dust filter removed if using AM4. You might get 65 mm with Intel.

As to the actual question.....I think your best bet is to take IE's advice and wait for Ryzen 3000. The 8700 is a good gaming CPU if setup properly. Once set up properly it will draw over 100 w fully loaded and will be very hard to keep cool in that case. If just gaming its probably not that big of deal. It shouldn't be hard to keep below 85 c. The 2700x is going to clock about the same if setup properly in a better cooling scenario but the likelihood you could achieve that in the node 202 is very small. The 8700 is probably the better bet between the 2. It has better IPC core for core clock for clock compared to 2nd gen Ryzen.

The CPU might not make a significant difference in regards to FPS depending on the resolution and settings. This will be more of a factor with the 2080 ti vs the 2080 on anything but 4k. I'm running 4k with some resolution down scaling to hit 60 fps v sync on my TV. This is why I'm running a 1600 in my build. I'm limited by the GPU at 4k and the CPU doesn't really matter much.
 
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Raraku

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I'd recommend a different case. The thermals in the node 202 are terrible. At least if going horizontal. I just did a living room PC build with similar hardware in one. I did everything you can do to optimize CPU thermals and it still runs hotter than I'd like. I custom mounted 3 40 mm fans to exhaust hot air from the CPU chamber. I used a blower card to prevent the GPU from dumping a ton of hot air into the case. I used dual 120 intakes in the GPU chamber and put taller feet on to increase airflow. I removed the CPU dust filter and stuck the wraith spire cooler right up against the vent. Despite all of this my CPU temps were 10-12 higher than a mini itx tower I had the same CPU and cooler in.

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 1600 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor
Motherboard: Asus - ROG Strix B450-I Gaming Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO 2 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11 GB Turbo Video Card
Case: Fractal Design - Node 202 HTPC Case
Power Supply: Corsair - SF 600 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit
Case Fan: Fractal Design - FD-FAN-SSR2-40 4.34 CFM 40 mm Fan
Case Fan: Fractal Design - FD-FAN-SSR2-40 4.34 CFM 40 mm Fan
Case Fan: Fractal Design - FD-FAN-SSR2-40 4.34 CFM 40 mm Fan
Custom: Lian Li SD-01B Black Aluminum Case Stand with Rubber Pad
Custom: Scythe Slip Stream 120 mm Slim Case Fan - PWM 2 TOTAL FANS

FYI if you are dead set on the Node you can fit a 64 mm tall cooler with the dust filter removed if using AM4. You might get 65 mm with Intel.

As to the actual question.....I think your best bet is to take IE's advice and wait for Ryzen 3000. The 8700 is a good gaming CPU if setup properly. Once set up properly it will draw over 100 w fully loaded and will be very hard to keep cool in that case. If just gaming its probably not that big of deal. It shouldn't be hard to keep below 85 c. The 2700x is going to clock about the same if setup properly in a better cooling scenario but the likelihood you could achieve that in the node 202 is very small. The 8700 is probably the better bet between the 2. It has better IPC core for core clock for clock compared to 2nd gen Ryzen.

The CPU might not make a significant difference in regards to FPS depending on the resolution and settings. This will be more of a factor with the 2080 ti vs the 2080 on anything but 4k. I'm running 4k with some resolution down scaling to hit 60 fps v sync on my TV. This is why I'm running a 1600 in my build. I'm limited by the GPU at 4k and the CPU doesn't really matter much.
Thanks a ton for sharing your experience with the Node 202.

If you don't mind, what thermals (GPU, CPU, motherboard) would you have liked/expected to reach, and what did you actually attain? I find this is all a matter of expectations as I personally am coming from a gaming laptop and was very close to purchasing another (which have crap thermals). As a result, I would be fairly content if I kept my thermals to around 80-85. I am really only using it for gaming and other light tasks, and I plan on laying it vertically, so hopefully that helps with thermals. I was also looking at the Cougar QBX which has more volume but the portability of the Node 202 feels almost unbeatable. It fits too neatly in a carry-on.

I wasn't aware there was room for additional 40mm fans inside the case; where did you end up attaching yours? Have they helped with your temps at all? Do you have any other tips or insights into the case?
 
Uhm... I believe if you buy a locked i7 8700, you'd be able to get away with a great SFF build. Ironically, I don't think there's great MoBos for the Ryzen series for cheap, but I've found really good H-series Intel boards for them.

As for the case... I like my CM 361 for my HTPC (still running a 100W Llano A8-3850 APU!), but I don't think they make it anymore and I don't know if they have a newer version of it in the market either. This is one that could be cool for mini ITX: https://eu.coolermaster.com/uk/case/viewallcase/elite110/

And for my cooling needs, I use a CM GeminII MX4: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/coolers/cpu-air-coolers/geminii-m4/

Not as good as the Noctua slim NH-L9i, but does the job just fine.

Also, how small do you intend to go? As that will also be important for what CPU you want to get at the end.

Cheers!
 

rigg42

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Thanks a ton for sharing your experience with the Node 202.

If you don't mind, what thermals (GPU, CPU, motherboard) would you have liked/expected to reach, and what did you actually attain? I find this is all a matter of expectations as I personally am coming from a gaming laptop and was very close to purchasing another (which have crap thermals). As a result, I would be fairly content if I kept my thermals to around 80-85. I am really only using it for gaming and other light tasks, and I plan on laying it vertically, so hopefully that helps with thermals. I was also looking at the Cougar QBX which has more volume but the portability of the Node 202 feels almost unbeatable. It fits too neatly in a carry-on.

I wasn't aware there was room for additional 40mm fans inside the case; where did you end up attaching yours? Have they helped with your temps at all? Do you have any other tips or insights into the case?
The thermals aren't completely terrible considering the size I guess. I'm a bit of stickler on temps so I didn't like seeing a 10 c rise from the previous case (with the same CPU overclock) after all of the effort I put into maximizing CPU cooling in the 202. The 40 mm fans dropped temps about 10c for me in horizontal if I remember correctly. I managed a 3.8 ghz overclock with peak temps of 86c in prime 26.6 small fft. Gaming stays below 70 c typically. I did not test vertical with this setup. I built with a 1700x and C7 cooler in this case previously. With that setup temps peaked at 76c (with stock settings) in 4 hours of real bench in the vertical position. This was with no extra 40mm fans. I probably could have managed better with an undervolt/oc, but It was for my friends kid so I just left it stock.

I hit about 83c peak during extended gameplay on the GPU. The GPU temps are pretty much the same as in a normal case. About what you'd expect on a blower 1080 ti card with stock fan profiles. I maxed the power limit and The GPU stays pretty much near its max boost consistently. I'm using V-sync though so I have game setting adjusted to try and keep minimums above 60 hz. Typically the GPU use is in the mid 80% range. This is probably helping thermals some what but I've never noticed temps going above 83 c even when the card is hitting near 100% usage consistently for extended periods.

The vertical orientation should help CPU temps quite a bit and you might find the 40 mm fans are redundant with the case oriented this way. You may need to mod the vertical stand for proper exhaust airflow from the GPU compartment though. The vertical stand blocks the exhaust vent from the GPU compartment. This shouldn't really be an issue with a blower card. I'd recommend you go that route or you'll be blowing hot air from the GPU compartment into the rest of the case hurting CPU thermals. The CPU temps tend to be more challenging in this case than GPU.

I basically copied this guys Idea with the 40mm fans:

https://www.overclock.net/photopost/data/1663460/c/c5/c5a9e1aa_IMG_20170829_185412.jpeg

https://www.overclock.net/forum/26311324-post389.html

I used nuts, bolts, and zip ties to attach the fans. If you find you need to do this, make sure you use 10 mm thick fans and plan carefully for your fan hub position. I stuck mine to the case lid and have it oriented to sit above the cables coming from the front of the PSU. When putting the lid on i just lay the cable going from the hub to the header up and around the CPU cooler so it doesn't hit anything.

All the CPU thermal info was off the top of my head and I was doing a lot of experimentation with different fan/dust filter setups when I did this build. I'm not 100% certain anything but the peak prime temps and approximate gaming temps are accurate. I'll probably have some time later this week to do some more solid testing and could get you some better data. I kind of wanted to do this anyway as a PSA.
 
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rigg42

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Uhm... I believe if you buy a locked i7 8700, you'd be able to get away with a great SFF build. Ironically, I don't think there's great MoBos for the Ryzen series for cheap, but I've found really good H-series Intel boards for them.

As for the case... I like my CM 361 for my HTPC (still running a 100W Llano A8-3850 APU!), but I don't think they make it anymore and I don't know if they have a newer version of it in the market either. This is one that could be cool for mini ITX: https://eu.coolermaster.com/uk/case/viewallcase/elite110/

And for my cooling needs, I use a CM GeminII MX4: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/coolers/cpu-air-coolers/geminii-m4/

Not as good as the Noctua slim NH-L9i, but does the job just fine.

Also, how small do you intend to go? As that will also be important for what CPU you want to get at the end.

Cheers!
I have an 8700 at home that hits 80c in stress tests. This is using a 120 mm tower cooler, in an ATX mid tower, undervolted at 1.15 vcore, with power limits and turbo duration maxed. If just gaming you might be able to leave the CPU at the stock TDP and still get enough turbo to beat the Ryzen. I have my doubts though. The Intel chips run super hot if not power and clock limited. He could probably fit an L9x65 in the node 202 with the 8700. He might be fine if he did the undervolt and did away with the TDP enforcement with that cooler. I still think a 3600 will be a better buy.

The AsRock, Gigabyte, and MSI b450 itx boards are all fine and $130 or less.
 
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I have an 8700 at home that hits 80c in stress tests. This is using a 120 mm tower cooler, in an ATX mid tower, undervolted at 1.15 vcore, with power limits and turbo duration maxed. If just gaming you might be able to leave the CPU at the stock TDP and still get enough turbo to beat the Ryzen. I have my doubts though. The Intel chips run super hot if not power and clock limited. He could probably fit an L9x65 in the node 202 with the 8700 though. He might be fine if he did the undervolt and did away with the TDP enforcement with that cooler. I still think a 3600 will be a better buy though.

The AsRock, Gigabyte, and MSI b450 itx boards are all fine and $130 or less.
My usual complain about them is the sound chipset they bring. The one wonderful thing my Llano system has is the integrated sound. One of the old rare VIA sound chipsets that are amazeballs. Too bad they're hard to find anymore. Plus the whole motherboard has very little noise in the analog signal (I have studio monitors with analog jacks) so the sound is quite good.

Anyway, that's my pet peeve with the AMD low end stuff they call "mini-ITX". The only exception is Asus' ROG stuff, but that kind of expensive.

Cheers!
 
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