[SOLVED] Sagemcom FAST 5598

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LeVzi

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Nov 3, 2017
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I have been given this router by the ISP (Youfibre) as a replacement, and it is WIFI 7 using the 802.11be standard. It's working great on the 2.4ghz and 5ghz bands, but I was under the assumption that WIFI 7 used the 6ghz band too ?

I cannot find any information on this router off the Sagemcom website, just some certificates to do with Youfibre.

I suspect the 6ghz band is disabled by the Youfibre firmware, but I maybe wrong here.

Does anyone know if this router is capable of using the 6ghz band ? Or it is simply a dual band router just using the WIFI 7 protocol ?

Either way, would I benefit from an updated 802.11be wifi adapter ? The one I am using is an 802.11ax only and I have decent speeds and latency, but looking to always drop that latency is something i'm interested in.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Surprisingly the big new features of 16 spatial streams, 4096-QAM and 320MHz-wide are all optional. But Multi-link Operation by simultaneously using different frequency bands and channels is mandatory so at least we won't see any 2.4GHz-only single-band Wifi 7 routers.

WPA3 is also mandatory in Wifi 7. It was only required in 6E for the 6GHz band.
 
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Don't get too stuck on latency numbers. The so called "lower" latency in wifi7 is extremely small. If you were say saving 100ms of latency that you might see in real world usage. a couple ms at most you will never be able to see other than with some testing tool.

The largest issue is that all wifi is subject to massive latency spikes. This spikes and packet loss is what you see causing problems in online games.

No matter what they do there is no solution to the latency spikes in games when you use wifi.

Hard to say which is better. Games do not actaully need more bandwidth. Most use under 1mbps. Using the more dense data encoding methods athough they give you more bandwidth this also means they are more suspetable to intference. They do retransmit the damaged data faster.

Best is always use some kind of wired connection for online games.
 
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That answers my question, its dual band. That is fair enough.
bill001g said:
Don't get too stuck on latency numbers. The so called "lower" latency in wifi7 is extremely small. If you were say saving 100ms of latency that you might see in real world usage. a couple ms at most you will never be able to see other than with some testing tool.

The largest issue is that all wifi is subject to massive latency spikes. This spikes and packet loss is what you see causing problems in online games.

No matter what they do there is no solution to the latency spikes in games when you use wifi.

Hard to say which is better. Games do not actaully need more bandwidth. Most use under 1mbps. Using the more dense data encoding methods athough they give you more bandwidth this also means they are more suspetable to intference. They do retransmit the damaged data faster.

Best is always use some kind of wired connection for online games.
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tbh all fps games are pretty decent just on the 5ghz band and I don't get much lag at all, sometimes none.

So I doubt i'll benefit anything from a newer receiver unless I go with a tri band.

Thanks for the reply.
 
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Sorry to bring this up again, but regarding the 802.11be protocol over the others.

I use a wifi USB adapter using the 802.11ac protocol on the 5ghz band only.

I get around 640mb/s down and the same up, jitter is 1ms and ping around 10. Online gaming is pretty decent tbh.

Would I actually benefit from the newer 6500be adapter that utilises the 802.11be protocol and MLO (Maybe, there is debate about this and I am not sure)

Plus moving to an adapter that can use the 802.11be would mean it's using the same as the router.

What are your thoughts, thanks. I should add I'm using Windows 11 24H2
 
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802.11be on that router I strongly suspect is mostly a lie. The key thing that makes this faster is all the added bandwidth on the 6ghz radio which as someone linked your router does not have. They just want to pretend it is wifi7 by putting that on the box. What other wifi7 feature does the router not also support. At best it can run stuff like QAM1024 but this dense data encoding seems only work well when you are very close to the router....you might as well run a ethernet cable.

It is pretty easy to find wifi adapters that are wifi7 and support the 6ghz radio band. The reason MLO is a bunch of smoke and mirrors that the marketing guys talk about is I have never seen a PC nic either PCIE or USB that has more than a single radio chip. You would need 3 different radio chips...or at least 2 to match your silly router. You can't do MLO unless you actually have multiple transmitters than can run at the same time.

I have actually looked for this and so far have not found anything other than very suspect stuff on direct ship from china sites like alibaba. It also would not cost $10 including free shipping if it really had 3 radios...which it did not even say it just talked about MLO.

If you find one I would like to know but again I would be very suspect of your router since it already kinda lies about being wifi7
 
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bill001g said:
802.11be on that router I strongly suspect is mostly a lie. The key thing that makes this faster is all the added bandwidth on the 6ghz radio which as someone linked your router does not have. They just want to pretend it is wifi7 by putting that on the box. What other wifi7 feature does the router not also support. At best it can run stuff like QAM1024 but this dense data encoding seems only work well when you are very close to the router....you might as well run a ethernet cable.

It is pretty easy to find wifi adapters that are wifi7 and support the 6ghz radio band. The reason MLO is a bunch of smoke and mirrors that the marketing guys talk about is I have never seen a PC nic either PCIE or USB that has more than a single radio chip. You would need 3 different radio chips...or at least 2 to match your silly router. You can't do MLO unless you actually have multiple transmitters than can run at the same time.

I have actually looked for this and so far have not found anything other than very suspect stuff on direct ship from china sites like alibaba. It also would not cost $10 including free shipping if it really had 3 radios...which it did not even say it just talked about MLO.

If you find one I would like to know but again I would be very suspect of your router since it already kinda lies about being wifi7
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Something has changed as the max download speed has jumped by 120mbps , must be a better radio than the TP link ax72 I was using before

Surely they open themselves up by mis marketing a WiFi 7 router when it isn't ?

But I do feel like it's too good to be true . There's no MLO options in the admin panel , nothing about 6ghz , in fact it's pretty limited
 
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LeVzi said:
Surely they open themselves up by mis marketing a WiFi 7 router when it isn't ?
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Nope the vast majority of users look at the box see wifi7 and a lower price and think they got a deal. Doesn't really matter they likely don't test anything and think it "feels" so much better than there old router when it likely is pretty much the same. They are happy and don't realize they were taken advantage of.
 
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bill001g said:
Nope the vast majority of users look at the box see wifi7 and a lower price and think they got a deal. Doesn't really matter they likely don't test anything and think it "feels" so much better than there old router when it likely is pretty much the same. They are happy and don't realize they were taken advantage of.
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Well I didn't pay for it, so i've not been taken advantage of.

The only reason I say it has improved is the speedtests I've run, and I consistently get 640mbps down/up , around 6ms ping and 1ms jitter up from 520mbps down/up and 10ms ping and 1ms jitter

But like I said potentially just a better radio than the older TP Link I was using. So how that has happened is up for debate. I have no idea tbh.

I'm using it with TX20UH wifi USB adapter. Was potentially going to upgrade to the BE6500 Wifi 7 hi gain adapter, but as you said, is this router actually Wifi 7 with lack of 6ghz band and no mention of the other protocols and it's not an £80 gamble I want to take.
 
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That's more information than I can get from Sagemcom , who even when questioned, just referred me to Youfibre. ( I kinda expected that)

So it's legit Wifi 7 , but MLO tech is not mentioned at all in the admin panel, I thought that was a toggle-able option ?

I think its a kinda "if its not broken , don't fix it " thing tbh, its working fine with my current TP Link wifi adapter, I get a massive lag spike every 2 maps on COD or maybe once in a BF2042 map, which is nothing major. It's definitely playable for these games. And sometimes you don't get a lag spike at all, it runs fine for hours.
 
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cruisetung said:
Grok's answer
https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_fcd1a89b-7179-4c80-aa2d-b57b84177c61

Since one of forum members blame me heavily for posting AI's answer a while ago, you make your own decision to believe AI's answer or not, and always do your own research.
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Partially this is because all the documents are likely translated from Chinese or something before Grok gets it. Maybe the translation is AI also. It is much better for products used in the USA where there are document submitted to the FCC that MUST include certain information in a very standard way. I am unsure how to get access to similar documents submitted to the EU license boards.

What AI doesn't understand is that you have to be very careful about documents like this where the manufacture has multiple products with very similar names. AI for example has almost no understanding of what different models made for different countries means...it does not know for example that this means the wifi frequencies and the power allowed can be very different.

It for example talking about what DSL is. DSL does not run on fiber and has a top speed limited well under 100mbps. This means the model being used is fiber gateway not the DSL model.

Grok seem to know it is dual channel and that means no 6ghz support but then it goes onto state is support 320mhz radio channels. This is impossible because 320mhz radio bands are not allowed on 2.4 and 5ghz, fcc and other government regulations.

The problem is grok is gets it answers from people like me by stealing forum posts on this and other forums. It didn't bother to learn or read all the government regulations about wifi, this is in a simple wiki it likely also stole.

If it had actually done its job it would have found a way to get the actual document it lists in the EU. It might then find out exactly what wifi radio chips are used and figure out exactly the abilities of this device. The problem is grok does not know to do this and then it doesn't have the ability to look at photo of the chips to get the part numbers. You then go the last step and look these up in the chipset manufactures site. This is what AI should do, all the tedious work of digging through documents.

If this had been a USA used device and I could get the FCC id number I would have actually done this.

Basically the AI is lazy it would rather just steal answer from forums like this and try to combine it with web searches it finds. It does not make the extra effort to understand the underlying technology like what the words DSL And 802.11be really mean.
 
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It all would be so much easier is Sagemcom actually had a full spec manual for the thing.

Certainly is a lot of cloak and dagger. Which makes me lean towards what bill is suggesting that the thing is not what it claims to be in Wifi 7.

I did wonder myself when I saw 802.11be_24 and 802.11be_5 as the protocols for both bands. It's 802.11be for both. Looks manually edited.
 
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@bill001g I was referring to another member.

However, what you said was all true, I also know that AI is absolutely not almighty and could be wrong/not accurate enough in many cases,

As I said, end user must do his own research. AI's answer is just a starting point, never an end result.

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YouFibre uses Sagemcom DSL gateway probably because it uses fiber-to-the-node (FTTN) or fiber-to-the-cabinet (FTTC) technology.
 
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cruisetung said:
@bill001g I was referring to another member.

However, what you said was all true, I also know that AI is absolutely not almighty and could be wrong/not accurate enough in many cases,

As I said, end user must do his own research. AI's answer is just a starting point, never an end result.

*********
YouFibre uses Sagemcom DSL gateway probably because it uses fiber-to-the-node (FTTN) or fiber-to-the-cabinet (FTTC) technology.
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No , Youfibre uses FTTP.
 
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