SanDisk Shipping New G3 SSD With ExtremeFFS

[rbarone69]

[citation][nom]pocketdrummer[/nom](which renders the SSD useless for all but an increase in your page file performance). It's an issue of practicality, not idiocy.[/citation]


You knowing what a page file is makes you a minority because you are more educated than most of the world. My comment stands, most users of computers are still very much ignorant, which is much different than idiocy of people. Please note that I dont think most people are idiots, but all people are ignorant in most everything and educated in very little (including myself). e.g. Do you know more than you don't?

Ignorance = lack of knowing (through lack of education)
Idiocy = stupid

 

[kelemvor4]

Am I the only one here who has used FFS as an acronym for something else for a very long time? Bad product naming in my opinion.. when I read the title all I see is Extreme F$@k F$%k S@$T. Probably not the kind of thoughts they intended to evoke in potential customers. At least it put a smile on my face today!

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]razor512[/nom]80TB before the drive dies, each day how much data do you thing is written to the drive for use as swap space, browser cache and all of the other various caches and the updating of some data and the other random read and writes to the drive?[/citation]
I would suggest if you have 8Gb of ram or more to reduce the swap file to the minimum 16mb then switch it off. Speeds the system up anyway using ram and less work work on the SSD.

Oh and for 80Tb of usage, lets assume they will wait till the manufacturers warranty to expire and tell you to go whistle if it fails, which by the way is a 10 year warranty ( http://www.dvhardware.net/article41208.html ) 10 years is a pretty good sounding warranty to me, thats 8Tb a year or 21.9Gb per day.
I dont care who you are, 21.9Gb per day is not browser cache, more like 24/7 torrenting at full whack an average 350Mb TV episode every 2 minutes. Anyone who abuses the drive like that would have serious problems with an ordinary HDD as well.

 

[razor512]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]I would suggest if you have 8Gb of ram or more to reduce the swap file to the minimum 16mb then switch it off. Speeds the system up anyway using ram and less work work on the SSD.Oh and for 80Tb of usage, lets assume they will wait till the manufacturers warranty to expire and tell you to go whistle if it fails, which by the way is a 10 year warranty ( http://www.dvhardware.net/article41208.html ) 10 years is a pretty good sounding warranty to me, thats 8Tb a year or 21.9Gb per day.I dont care who you are, 21.9Gb per day is not browser cache, more like 24/7 torrenting at full whack an average 350Mb TV episode every 2 minutes. Anyone who abuses the drive like that would have serious problems with an ordinary HDD as well.[/citation]
theres no way to get around pagefile. even on a system with 16GB of memory, many apps and parts of windows will still want to use the pagefiel and when they cant, they have errors. also if you do things like work with professional apps like photoshop or various professional 3d modeling apps or video editing apps (you will want then to use the SSD as a scratch disk because when using the SSD for that, the program's responsiveness increases to such a level that it is like day and night) but working with a even a 500MB video clip can cause a 8-100GB scratch disk usage and when you make changes, that data will be changed over and over again you can push that 80TB limit in a few months

and while a drive can have a good warranty, you still lose your data on the drive, you also have to pay to send it in for a RMA with is a major hassle at the work needed, and you may go 1-2 weeks with out your drive.

the windows pagefile is read and write intensive browser cache is also write intensive as it is constantly being written to while you are browsing the web (even though it is a small amount of data, all of the many different caches in your system will add up to a lot of write cycles done to the drive, also

80TB = 83,886,080 MB of data

thats 194 hours worth of writing to the drive in order to kill it, which is why apps like spinrite are able to kill a SSD in a few days

A 7200ROM drive can match those write speeds but you will see reports of spinrite writing to those drives for over a month when a lot of data was damaged and the program is doing data recovery, and when ti is done, the drive works perfectly.

a SSD has a longer warranty but it cant handle the same work a HDD can handle. A HDD can handle hundreds of thousands of TB of data being written to then and not have a problem with the platter storing data

if there was a way to keep the platters stationary and have one giant read/write head that can read and write to the platter as a whole, a HDD will potentially last for an unlimited write cycles.

 

[razor512]

typo: no edit feature, 7200RPM

 

[razor512]

PS businesses wont adopt SSD much because of this, imagine having a database where data is constantly being added, updated, and deleted on a SSD. At my college, I help with some of the servers ( good way to volunteer and get stuff to add to your resume)
the hard drives in their raid setup are loud when loading and at around 8AM to about 8PM each day, the drives are being worked non stop, an SSD would never handle that in a cost effective way, even if they have a long warranty, if a company spends like $300 on a SSD, they will lose a lot more than $300, going 2 weeks with out the drive than they would getting a new drive (toms hardware needs to do a article on how reliable a SSD will be in a server environment where the drive will be reading and writing non stop all day 24/7, compared to a HDD)

 

[td854]

I didn't read all these walls of text but as far as I understand; when an SSD "dies" the ability to read data is still available, it is just unable to write... thus you can pull your data off, turn it in for it's warranty or just buy a new one. As where when a hard drive dies, there can be a whole mess of different situations, from 2000 dollar clean room services to a simple program to read damaged partitions or file systems.

I believe the information is somewhere on OCZ's site if I, for some reason need proof.

 

[rbarone69]

[citation][nom]razor512[/nom]PS businesses wont adopt SSD much because of this, imagine having a database where data is constantly being added, updated, and deleted on a SSD. At my college, I help with some of the servers ( good way to volunteer and get stuff to add to your resume)the hard drives in their raid setup are loud when loading and at around 8AM to about 8PM each day, the drives are being worked non stop, an SSD would never handle that in a cost effective way, even if they have a long warranty, if a company spends like $300 on a SSD, they will lose a lot more than $300, going 2 weeks with out the drive than they would getting a new drive (toms hardware needs to do a article on how reliable a SSD will be in a server environment where the drive will be reading and writing non stop all day 24/7, compared to a HDD)[/citation]

I've read your posts... I dont even know where to begin... I think you should do a little research on DB tech, windows page/swap file and SSD wear algorithms before posting this to the users here.

I understand you think you know what you are talking about, but I can honestly say you need some experience and possibly better teaching resources. I hope you take my comments as helpful criticism not flaming (I've been there).

 

[back_by_demand]

Agreed, as far as absolutely needing a pagefile that is a fabrication. I have been running Win 7 with 12Gb ram and no pagefile for almost a year, from the RC to the RTM to the retail version and never once had an error.

I use Photoshop CS3 to edit RAW pictures from a Canon EOS 7D, that's an 18MP camera. The missus tends to open 50 pictures at a time and so far the ram hasn't been exceeded requiring a pagefile to be written. I'm sure one day she will try to open a few hundred at once and it will fail but till them I have not required a pagefile and never had an error.

 

[razor512]

pagefile can be disabled but there some programs that wont run without it. just because the ones you have run with out it doesn't mean all will run with out it.

with photoshop, if you have a lot of RAM, it will not really cache anything unless you are doing a lot of stuff, like for me, even the overpriced computer at work with 32GB of memory and 2 quad core CPU's starts to use the cache heavily when I am working on something for a large format print and end up with 150+ layers going

and for video editors, it seems like no amount of RAM is enough to stop them from going crazy with the scratch disk when working with video footage.

if the SSD is rated to last an average of 80TB of writes to it, then that means that theres no special way to write to the drive that will allow you to write much more than 80TB to it. if you were to record the electric impulses of just 1 cell in a the flash memory chip, no matter how you write to it, the impulses will look the same. the same even goes for the human brain, when a probe is dropped into the brain and and records data from a single neuron, no matter what information the brain receives or processes, the activity from a single neuron always looks the same unless theres damage that effects it's rate of firing

also the fact still comes that a HDD car handle a lot more than 80TB written to it. while a OS like windows 7 has built in support for SSD's and thus it will not do things like defrag a SSD while the system is idle, it will still make heavy use of the page file, especially if you don't have a lot of memory (in this case, even 4GB is not enough RAM)

also the reason why SSD's are able to handle as much data written to them as they do now is due to how it handles the data, the write cycles are spread as evenly as possibly but even then, the drive in this article is projected to handle 80TB

while 80TB seems like a lot, it is not much considering how much data will be written to a SSD each day.

 

[rbarone69]

Here's some info for your reading.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ssd-value-performance,review-1455-6.html


You are not swapping as much data as you'd think... But I'm not going to argue the fact. Good luck with your hard drives

 

[back_by_demand]

Odd, in all the time I have been editting HD video I would have expected to crash with my pagefile being reduced to 16mb then disabled. I wonder if the use of pagefile is program specific rather than blanket for video editting? Could be worth some investigation, or if Windows 7 notices a pagefile is switched off would it try to offload more to ram?
Dont know but I think I will have to do some investigation.

 

[razor512]

some apps will specifically try to write to page file regardless of free memory, apps written that way will have problems if there is no page file, many other apps ban work with out it as they often have their own special location where they cache data that doesn't need to be in memory, for example, if you open a large video in adobe after effects, you can have a billion GB of memory and it will still cache much of that video into the hard drive space that it allocates as caching/ scratch disk.


SSD's have come a long way but they are still not at a level where they can handle the abuse that a HDD can handle, and for the price, that is not a good trade off for the additional speed. I may save time now but I will lose all saved time and then some when I have to RMA the drive more frequently, especially if I use it as a scratch disk for large programs in which case, probably well over 100GB of data will be written to the drive each day.

I prefer to wait until SSD's reach the current price points of HDD's or until they reach a level of endurance that makes the additional cost worth it.

having a SSD as only a boot drive is mostly a waste (looking at those 32GB drives)

since I got my 1TB western digital black drive, windows XP boots in under 10 seconds (from when the windows xp logo is displayed to the time the desktop is seen and all hard drive activity stops, (with my old hard drive, an 80GB Hitachi, windows XP booted in under 17 seconds,

the bios post crap takes 5-6 seconds (mainly because the annoying AHCI detection crap)

I am perfectly fine waiting this long, I can wait until SSD's improve and offer a reasonable amount of storage and a reliability thats better than a HDD (not talking about vibration or environmental factors but intenal factors like reading and writing)

a long warranty is also not enough for a SSD as it still waste time and cost you money in packing and paying to mail it into them for the RMA