Savage Beating/Spellbinder

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

3 cards involved:

Lone Wolf
{2}{G}
Creature -- Wolf
2/2
You may have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player as
though it weren't blocked.

Savage Beating
{3}{R}{R}
Instant
Play Savage Beating only during your turn and only during combat.
Choose one -- Creatures you control gain double strike until end of
turn; or untap all creatures you control and after this phase, there
is an additional combat phase.
Entwine {1}{R}

Spellbinder
{3}
Artifact -- Equipment
Imprint -- When Spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
card in your hand from the game.
Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may
copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its
mana cost.
Equip {4}

Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
it reset back to a 2/2 creature?

Thanks.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

sulfuricmox@yahoo.com (SulfuricMox) writes:
> 3 cards involved:
>
> Lone Wolf
> {2}{G}
> Creature -- Wolf
> 2/2
> You may have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player as
> though it weren't blocked.
>
> Savage Beating
> {3}{R}{R}
> Instant
> Play Savage Beating only during your turn and only during combat.
> Choose one -- Creatures you control gain double strike until end of
> turn; or untap all creatures you control and after this phase, there
> is an additional combat phase.
> Entwine {1}{R}
>
> Spellbinder
> {3}
> Artifact -- Equipment
> Imprint -- When Spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
> card in your hand from the game.
> Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may
> copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its
> mana cost.
> Equip {4}
>
> Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
> Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
> I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
> Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
> additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
> it reset back to a 2/2 creature?

Neither, really. Toughness is not hit points. The Wolf is now a 2/2
with 1 damage on him. If it ever has more damage than toughness, it'll
be destroyed.

Damage gets removed from creatures during Cleanup step at the end of
the turn.

--
Peter C.
"In fact, I'll go cancel some email right now."
-- wschudy

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2004 15:57:10 -0700, SulfuricMox <sulfuricmox@yahoo.com> wrote:
>3 cards involved:
>
>Lone Wolf 2G Creature -- Wolf
>2/2 You may have ~ deal its combat damage to defending player as though it
> weren't blocked.

Which works as though it actually said "You may have ~ _assign_ its combat..."

>Savage Beating 3RR Instant
> Play ~ only during your turn and only during combat. / Choose one --
> Creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn; or untap all
> creatures you control and after this phase, there is an additional combat
> phase. / Entwine 1R
>Spellbinder 3 Artifact -- Equipment
> Imprint -- When ~ comes into play, you may remove an instant card in your
> hand from the game. / Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a
> player, you may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without
> paying its mana cost. / Equip 4

Before reading further: yes, Spellbinder/Savage Beating is a Combo. Having
the Spellbinder equipped to a creature with an evasion ability, or one which
can direct-hit like Lone Wolf, is a Super-Mega Combo.

Spellbinder only says not to pay the mana cost, so if you wanted to Entwine
the copy, you'd still have to pay the 1R. But you can play the copy and choose
the second mode "for free", yes.

Ways for opponent to get out of this: remove the equipped creature from play
-before- combat damage goes onto the stack; remove the _Spellbinder_ from play,
leaving the Savage Beating stranded in the RFG zone; steal either the Lone
Wolf (which removes it from combat) or the Spellbinder (since its _controller_
chooses whether to copy the imprinted Instant).

>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
>I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
>Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
>it reset back to a 2/2 creature?

Um. Not at all the question I was expecting.

Nothing you have said here has any way of making the Lone Wolf's toughness
change. It is now a 2/2 creature with 1 damage on it. The damage stays on it
until end of turn, in the usual way. (And the 1/1 is still there, since the
Lone Wolf assigned and dealt no combat damage to it, so repeating the trick
this turn will probably get you a dead Lone Wolf.)

Toughness is NOT IN ANY WAY "hit points"; it does not change as a creature
takes damage.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

SulfuricMox wrote:
> 3 cards involved:
>
> Lone Wolf
> {2}{G}
> Creature -- Wolf
> 2/2
> You may have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player as
> though it weren't blocked.
>
> Savage Beating
> {3}{R}{R}
> Instant
> Play Savage Beating only during your turn and only during combat.
> Choose one -- Creatures you control gain double strike until end of
> turn; or untap all creatures you control and after this phase, there
> is an additional combat phase.
> Entwine {1}{R}
>
> Spellbinder
> {3}
> Artifact -- Equipment
> Imprint -- When Spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
> card in your hand from the game.
> Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may
> copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its
> mana cost.
> Equip {4}
>
> Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
> Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
> I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
> Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
> additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
> it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>
> Thanks.

It's a 2/2 creature with 1 point of damage on it. One more, and it could
very well die.

Note, that damage does not reduce the toughness of a creature.

--
From the mind of Andrew Kicks
--A heartless man,
he lives by beating his own cheast.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Peter Cooper Jr. wrote:
> sulfuricmox@yahoo.com (SulfuricMox) writes:
>
>>3 cards involved:
>>
>>Lone Wolf
>>{2}{G}
>>Creature -- Wolf
>>2/2
>>You may have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player as
>>though it weren't blocked.
>>
>>Savage Beating
>>{3}{R}{R}
>>Instant
>>Play Savage Beating only during your turn and only during combat.
>>Choose one -- Creatures you control gain double strike until end of
>>turn; or untap all creatures you control and after this phase, there
>>is an additional combat phase.
>>Entwine {1}{R}
>>
>>Spellbinder
>>{3}
>>Artifact -- Equipment
>>Imprint -- When Spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
>>card in your hand from the game.
>>Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may
>>copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its
>>mana cost.
>>Equip {4}
>>
>>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
>>I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
>>Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
>>it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>
>
> Neither, really. Toughness is not hit points. The Wolf is now a 2/2
> with 1 damage on him. If it ever has more damage than toughness, it'll
> be destroyed.

If it ever has [equal to or greater than (=>)] damage compared to
toughness it'll be destroyed.

😉

> Damage gets removed from creatures during Cleanup step at the end of
> the turn.
>


--
From the mind of Andrew Kicks
--A heartless man,
he lives by beating his own cheast.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

SulfuricMox sez:

<<
>Lone Wolf
>{2}{G}
>Creature -- Wolf
>2/2
>You may have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player as
>though it weren't blocked.
>
>Savage Beating
>{3}{R}{R}
Instant
>Play Savage Beating only during your turn and only during combat.
>Choose one -- Creatures you control gain double strike until end of
>turn; or untap all creatures you control and after this phase, there
>is an additional combat phase.
>Entwine {1}{R}
>
>Spellbinder
>{3}
>Artifact -- Equipment
>Imprint -- When Spellbinder comes into play, you may remove an instant
card in your hand from the game.
>Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a player, you may
>copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without paying its
>mana cost.
>Equip {4}
>
>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
>I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
>Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
>it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>
>>

Neither. He's a 2/2 with 1 damage on him. And if I were you, I'd pay the 1R
to Entwine the Beating so the Wolf doesn't die.

Now, question: Let's say I did what I just described: Everything above,
entwined Savage Beating giving the Wolf double strike. Can I assign first
strike combat damage to blocking creatures and normal combat damage to the
player in the next combat, or is it an all-or-nothing deal?


----
"If President Bush is going to take credit for 'the invisble hand' [of
economics], then he's going to take the blame when 'the hand' gives him the
finger."
--From Fark.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Andy Jakcsy <djaxmann@aol.computer> wrote:
>>Lone Wolf
>>You may have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player as
>>though it weren't blocked.
>>Savage Beating
>>Play Savage Beating only during your turn and only during combat.
>>Choose one -- Creatures you control gain double strike until end of
>>turn; or untap all creatures you control and after this phase, there
>>is an additional combat phase. / Entwine {1}{R}
>
>Neither. He's a 2/2 with 1 damage on him. And if I were you, I'd pay the 1R
>to Entwine the Beating so the Wolf doesn't die.

Right, because if the Wolf can kill its blocker with first-strike damage, and
if the blocker doesn't also have first/double strike, the Wolf won't get any
damage after all.

>Now, question: Let's say I did what I just described: Everything above,
>entwined Savage Beating giving the Wolf double strike. Can I assign first
>strike combat damage to blocking creatures and normal combat damage to the
>player in the next combat, or is it an all-or-nothing deal?

Each time you're assigning combat damage from the Lone Wolf, you may decide to
assign it as though it weren't blocked. If it's assigning combat damage twice
in one Combat phase, or four times in one turn, or whatever, the decision each
time is independent. (You wouldn't expect that deciding one way on one TURN
would affect what you could decide next TURN, would you? This is the same thing
but closer together.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 24 Jun 2004 20:34:49 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
wrote:

>On 24 Jun 2004 15:57:10 -0700, SulfuricMox <sulfuricmox@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>3 cards involved:
>>
>>Lone Wolf 2G Creature -- Wolf
>>2/2 You may have ~ deal its combat damage to defending player as though it
>> weren't blocked.
>
>Which works as though it actually said "You may have ~ _assign_ its combat..."
>
>>Savage Beating 3RR Instant
>> Play ~ only during your turn and only during combat. / Choose one --
>> Creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn; or untap all
>> creatures you control and after this phase, there is an additional combat
>> phase. / Entwine 1R
>>Spellbinder 3 Artifact -- Equipment
>> Imprint -- When ~ comes into play, you may remove an instant card in your
>> hand from the game. / Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a
>> player, you may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without
>> paying its mana cost. / Equip 4
>
>Before reading further: yes, Spellbinder/Savage Beating is a Combo. Having
>the Spellbinder equipped to a creature with an evasion ability, or one which
>can direct-hit like Lone Wolf, is a Super-Mega Combo.
>
>Spellbinder only says not to pay the mana cost, so if you wanted to Entwine
>the copy, you'd still have to pay the 1R. But you can play the copy and choose
>the second mode "for free", yes.
>
>Ways for opponent to get out of this: remove the equipped creature from play
>-before- combat damage goes onto the stack; remove the _Spellbinder_ from play,
>leaving the Savage Beating stranded in the RFG zone; steal either the Lone
>Wolf (which removes it from combat) or the Spellbinder (since its _controller_
>chooses whether to copy the imprinted Instant).
>
>>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
>>I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
>>Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
>>it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>
>Um. Not at all the question I was expecting.
>
>Nothing you have said here has any way of making the Lone Wolf's toughness
>change. It is now a 2/2 creature with 1 damage on it. The damage stays on it
>until end of turn, in the usual way. (And the 1/1 is still there, since the
>Lone Wolf assigned and dealt no combat damage to it, so repeating the trick
>this turn will probably get you a dead Lone Wolf.)
>
>Toughness is NOT IN ANY WAY "hit points"; it does not change as a creature
>takes damage.
>
>Dave

Even though the 1/1 creature is still there, it would be tapped so no
dead wolf.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:52:16 -0500, Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:

>On 24 Jun 2004 20:34:49 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
>wrote:
>
>>On 24 Jun 2004 15:57:10 -0700, SulfuricMox <sulfuricmox@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>3 cards involved:
>>>
>>>Lone Wolf 2G Creature -- Wolf
>>>2/2 You may have ~ deal its combat damage to defending player as though it
>>> weren't blocked.
>>
>>Which works as though it actually said "You may have ~ _assign_ its combat..."
>>
>>>Savage Beating 3RR Instant
>>> Play ~ only during your turn and only during combat. / Choose one --
>>> Creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn; or untap all
>>> creatures you control and after this phase, there is an additional combat
>>> phase. / Entwine 1R
>>>Spellbinder 3 Artifact -- Equipment
>>> Imprint -- When ~ comes into play, you may remove an instant card in your
>>> hand from the game. / Whenever equipped creature deals combat damage to a
>>> player, you may copy the imprinted instant card and play the copy without
>>> paying its mana cost. / Equip 4
>>
>>Before reading further: yes, Spellbinder/Savage Beating is a Combo. Having
>>the Spellbinder equipped to a creature with an evasion ability, or one which
>>can direct-hit like Lone Wolf, is a Super-Mega Combo.
>>
>>Spellbinder only says not to pay the mana cost, so if you wanted to Entwine
>>the copy, you'd still have to pay the 1R. But you can play the copy and choose
>>the second mode "for free", yes.
>>
>>Ways for opponent to get out of this: remove the equipped creature from play
>>-before- combat damage goes onto the stack; remove the _Spellbinder_ from play,
>>leaving the Savage Beating stranded in the RFG zone; steal either the Lone
>>Wolf (which removes it from combat) or the Spellbinder (since its _controller_
>>chooses whether to copy the imprinted Instant).
>>
>>>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>>>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
>>>I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
>>>Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>>>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
>>>it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>>
>>Um. Not at all the question I was expecting.
>>
>>Nothing you have said here has any way of making the Lone Wolf's toughness
>>change. It is now a 2/2 creature with 1 damage on it. The damage stays on it
>>until end of turn, in the usual way. (And the 1/1 is still there, since the
>>Lone Wolf assigned and dealt no combat damage to it, so repeating the trick
>>this turn will probably get you a dead Lone Wolf.)
>>
>>Toughness is NOT IN ANY WAY "hit points"; it does not change as a creature
>>takes damage.
>>
>>Dave
>
>Even though the 1/1 creature is still there, it would be tapped so no
>dead wolf.

Oops, please disregard that last message. I had a brain fart. (For
some reason I thought the creature would become tapped...)

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora wrote:

>
> Even though the 1/1 creature is still there, it would be tapped so no
> dead wolf.

Um, wha? Why would the 1/1 be tapped? There's nothing here that can
tap the 1/1. The Lone Wolf can kill it, if it assigns damage to it
and not the player, but it can't be tapped.
--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> writes:
> dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>On 24 Jun 2004 15:57:10 -0700, SulfuricMox <sulfuricmox@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>>>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature,
>>>and I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I
>>>copy Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>>>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or
>>>does it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>>
>>Nothing you have said here has any way of making the Lone Wolf's
>>toughness change. It is now a 2/2 creature with 1 damage on it. The
>>damage stays on it until end of turn, in the usual way. (And the 1/1
>>is still there, since the Lone Wolf assigned and dealt no combat
>>damage to it, so repeating the trick this turn will probably get you
>>a dead Lone Wolf.)
>
> Even though the 1/1 creature is still there, it would be tapped so
> no dead wolf.

Did I miss something? When did the 1/1 get tapped?

--
Peter C.
"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it
would be a merrier world."
-- J. R. R. Tolkien

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:06:28 -0400, pete@cooper.homedns.org (Peter
Cooper Jr.) wrote:

>Lophophora <nope@nope.com> writes:
>> dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>>On 24 Jun 2004 15:57:10 -0700, SulfuricMox <sulfuricmox@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>>>>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature,
>>>>and I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I
>>>>copy Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>>>>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or
>>>>does it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>>>
>>>Nothing you have said here has any way of making the Lone Wolf's
>>>toughness change. It is now a 2/2 creature with 1 damage on it. The
>>>damage stays on it until end of turn, in the usual way. (And the 1/1
>>>is still there, since the Lone Wolf assigned and dealt no combat
>>>damage to it, so repeating the trick this turn will probably get you
>>>a dead Lone Wolf.)
>>
>> Even though the 1/1 creature is still there, it would be tapped so
>> no dead wolf.
>
>Did I miss something? When did the 1/1 get tapped?

Yep, I'm wrong there.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Lophophora <nope@nope.com> wrote:
>dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney) wrote:
>>>Savage Beating 3RR Instant
>>> Play ~ only during your turn and only during combat. / Choose one --
>>> Creatures you control gain double strike until end of turn; or untap all
>>> creatures you control and after this phase, there is an additional combat
>>> phase. / Entwine 1R

>>>Savage Beating is imprinted on Spellbinder, which is equipped on a
>>>Lone Wolf. The Lone Wolf attacks and is blocked by a 1/1 creature, and
>>>I have Lone Wolf deal its combat damage to defending player. I copy
>>>Savage Beating and untap all creatures I control and take an
>>>additional combat phase. Is the Lone Wolf now a 2/1 creature, or does
>>>it reset back to a 2/2 creature?
>>
>>Nothing you have said here has any way of making the Lone Wolf's toughness
>>change. It is now a 2/2 creature with 1 damage on it. The damage stays on it
>>until end of turn, in the usual way. (And the 1/1 is still there, since the
>>Lone Wolf assigned and dealt no combat damage to it, so repeating the trick
>>this turn will probably get you a dead Lone Wolf.)
>>
>>Toughness is NOT IN ANY WAY "hit points"; it does not change as a creature
>>takes damage.
>
>Even though the 1/1 creature is still there, it would be tapped so no
>dead wolf.

a), where do you get from -any- of what was said that the 1/1 blocker became
tapped? Nothing given in the situation would cause it to become tapped in
any way. b), Even if it did become tapped after it became a blocker, that
doesn't stop it in any way from assigning or dealing its 1 combat damage to
the Lone Wolf. If the Lone Wolf attacked a second time, using the Savage
Beating's extra Combat phase, and was blocked by the 1/1 creature again, the
Wolf would die, because now it would have taken 2 damage and its toughness
is 2.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.