Question Saving Audio files then amending file name

[oakmead]

Within Windows XP and I assume Windows 10 and no doubt on Apple computers,

Whenever I saved an Audio file or any file for that matter, I would name it and save it.

Should I change the content and resave it but keeping the original file name, the file’s original creation date remains regardless, even if the file is saved to a different location

If I was to amend or change the original file name, would doing so, actually changed the file’s original created date to the time and date the file’s name was changed or amended ?

Reason I ask, on iPhone, when I save a voice memo and I give it a file name, if I accidentally move the curse within the file name and create a space or I actually rename the file’s original file name, the voice memo file’s original created date, automatically changes to the date the voice memo file name was accidentally change or amended….. should this be happening ?

 

[Ralston18]

Not sure that I am fully following the described circumstances.....

However, that being said, the host system has no way to know if the change was intentional or accidental.

It is simply code: If X then Y.

What you might need to do is find an app or some code that notes some change (any change) to a file and requests a confirmation from the end user.

Also keep in mind that in some circumstances there may be protections in place to prevent "accidents".

 

[dwd999]

Reason I ask, on iPhone, when I save a voice memo and I give it a file name, if I accidentally move the curse within the file name and create a space or I actually rename the file’s original file name, the voice memo file’s original created date, automatically changes to the date the voice memo file name was accidentally change or amended….. should this be happening ?

This is something you should be asking at the Apple Store Genius Bar. Their IOS operating system is not the same as any version of Windows, so you would need an expert in their system. In Windows we have files specs for Date Created, Date Modified, Date Accessed, Date Last Saved, and Date Acquired But we have no idea what Apple IOS does.

 

[oakmead]

Thanks for your response,
I’ve spoken with Apple’s higher level support and I’m aware the differences but a situation has arose which I need clarifying and I no longer have a computer,

It’s my belief that whenever a file is saved, whether a voice recording or any other file, especially when using a Windows pc and I assume, the same on a Apple pc, the original file creation date & time remains and does not change if the file name is amended or changed at a later date.

However, on my iPhone 13, I’ve captured, named and saved a number of audio recordings in the voice memo app; recordings, captured last year, and in January, which I need to submit to support a legal issue.

However, within the iPhone voice memo app, when I either accidentally press the space bar on the file name or I amend or change the file name; the original creation date and time is lost and the voice memo files which were captured last year and in January, now display a creation date of when the file names were changed or amended; thus, my audio recordings have lost their legal credibility.

The creation date and time of such audio recordings, is now different to the actual time and date to when the recordings were actually captured.

I’ve queried this with Apple, explaining it’s a flaw with their voice memo app, as most users making a voice memo would normally name voice memo recordings but without including the time or date when the recording was captured within the file name and, would never expect the original file creation date and time to change when amending or changing the file name.

I explained to Apply Support, this doesn’t happen when I save and rename or amend a file name’s on a computer, the original creation date and time always remains.

Apple’s response, claim my belief is incorrect and state whenever a file name is amended or changed on a computer, the files creation date, changes to the time and date when the file name is changed or amended; which I disagree with, hence my question on here for clarification, in regard to creation time and dates on Windows computers and Apple rather than the iPhone.

 

[oakmead]

Not sure that I am fully following the described circumstances.....

However, that being said, the host system has no way to know if the change was intentional or accidental.

It is simply code: If X then Y.

What you might need to do is find an app or some code that notes some change (any change) to a file and requests a confirmation from the end user.

Also keep in mind that in some circumstances there may be protections in place to prevent "accidents".

Thanks for your reply but it’s not as complex as a coding issue;
It’s my view,, that the saving of files on a computer, despite making amendments to the file name, whether accidental or intentional, on a computer, the original file creation time and date never changes.
Although, it’s a long time since I’ve used a computer and when Apple’s higher level
Support said I wrong, it planted a seed of doubt in my mind and as I no longer have a computer to check, I thought I’d ask on thos forum.

I believe Apple are wrong and for an application such as a voice memo, an app where users are expected to record memo’s and the option is available to name, save and edited file names, then the original file creation date should not change to the date and time when a file name is amended of completely changed.

If my understanding is correct, my only option is to raise another complaint with apple and report as a bug in the Apple voice memo app.

 

[oakmead]

Also keep in mind that in some circumstances there may be protections in place to prevent "accidents".

My reference to accidents; on the iPhone 13 and within the voice memo app; when a file name has been created and the file name is longer than the width of the iPhone screen, users have to use the keyboard space as a mouse to mover the cursor along to see the remainder of the file name that’s beyond the width of the screen, hence it easy to unintentionally and accidentally add a space within the file name; and doing so changes the voice memo’s original creation date and time to a new date and time, when the space bar was unintentionally pressed.

Also, when using the iPhone voice memo app, the screen doesn’t rotate to landscape.

 

[SkyNetRising]

thus, my audio recordings have lost their legal credibility.

File creation date has no legal credibility either way. Never had.
You can easily change system date on your computer to whatever you want and
make a copy of your file. File creation date becomes the new date, you set on your computer.

 

[35below0]

Apple’s response, claim my belief is incorrect and state whenever a file name is amended or changed on a computer, the files creation date, changes to the time and date when the file name is changed or amended; which I disagree with

You're half correct. What changes is the "date modified" but if the file is not modified, and is instead created and saved anew, or copied, then it's creation date will change as well.
I'm no file system expert though.

There is room for inconsistency in this, certainly in Windows. Apple's response is not 100% correct though.

In Windows, copying the file keeps the Date modified, but Created date changes. Windows also tracks the Accessed date.
Here's what i mean by inconsistent, or confusing:

https://imgur.com/cGpiVuj

View: https://i.imgur.com/cGpiVuj.png

The picture shows file properties of a txt file i copied from my old computer. This happened Jan. 8th this year. The last time the file was modified remains Dec 28th 2017.
This is the copy of the same file made now:

https://imgur.com/YIRPgvr

View: https://i.imgur.com/YIRPgvr.png

Created and Accessed changed, but Modified remains the same.

When i add some text to the file and save it, something weird happens. Checking file properties does not show the file has been modified. All the dates are the same as before.
Opening the file however, triggers something in Windows that updates the properties, or at least it slaps File Explorer so it shows the correct information.
After the file has been accessed once, the properties correctly read:

https://imgur.com/mlLOiEb

View: https://i.imgur.com/mlLOiEb.png

And to your point, Created date remains the same.

Renaming the file changes none of the properties.

And yes, let's all congratulate Windows for not ever being able to do the basics right.

 

[Ralston18]

What is the type and nature of that 157 byte file - .txt ?

No data..... ?

(Size on disk = 0 Bytes)

What editor is being used to modify the text files?

Any auto save settings? Date etc. may not be immediately changed pending some other related actions.

 

[oakmead]

File creation date has no legal credibility either way. Never had.

Maybe in a court of law, a file’s original creation date is probably inadmissible but in my current circumstances., the files I’ve already submitted, the organisation thats received them, have noted the files original creation time and date, so it has some significance to them, which is beneficial to myself.; hence why the additional audio recording which were captured last year and in January, which I only recently amended the file names, so now, they have recent file creation times and dates.

 

[oakmead]

I appreciate everyone who has been good enough to respond but this is becoming too complicated to understand.

My best option is to set up my old Widows XP pc and retrieve some old files and see what happens when I amend or changed a file names, then do the same using an up to date computer.

Thanks again for everyone who has responded.

 

[35below0]

What is the type and nature of that 157 byte file - .txt ?

It's 144 chars on 14 lines.
A list of games i bought from GOG and Steam during the 2017 Winter sale.

As to why i have that file lying around....

No data..... ?

(Size on disk = 0 Bytes)

There is data but very little. File Explorer says 1Kb, file properties says 0 bytes on disk. Microsoft says "Mm..wuuh?? We're working on screwing up VPN support right now. Call back later."

What editor is being used to modify the text files?

Notedpad (Win11)

Any auto save settings? Date etc. may not be immediately changed pending some other related actions.

Nothing i'm aware of.

I just pulled some file at random. Something unimportant. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edit - I bought Disciples III ????? What the hell, me?

 

[PEnns]

However, within the iPhone voice memo app, when I either accidentally press the space bar on the file name or I amend or change the file name; the original creation date and time is lost and the voice memo files which were captured last year and in January, now display a creation date of when the file names were changed or amended; thus, my audio recordings have lost their legal credibility.

That's not the case (I have Apple 14), and I doubt this is the case on your Apple 13.

I just changed the names multiple times on voice memos and each time it kept the original file creation date (Feb. 2024 and not today!). Changing the name will not alter file creation date on those voice memos.

There could be something else happening that's changing the dates. What, I can't tell.

In Windows, on the other hand: Changing the name, for example, will keep the original creation date but the file properties will show the file was accessed today.

 

[Ralston18]

@oakmead

After reading back and some additional discussion I am going to close this thread.

Two immediate reasons:

1) "However, on my iPhone 13, I’ve captured, named and saved a number of audio recordings in the voice memo app; recordings, captured last year, and in January, which I need to submit to support a legal issue."

My underline.

Legal matters are not within the scope of this Forum.

2) There are very few, if any reasons, for legitimately altering or attempting to alter file date and time stamps. Assistance with such matters is likely outside of Forum rules.

Issues with the accuracy or validity of date and time stamps need to be addressed through the appropriate OS and software vendors.

In any case there is no way, on this end to know the truth of the matter.

All I can suggest (and I am not a lawyer and thus not offering legal advice) is that you raise whatever date and time stamp issues that are of concern to you with your legal resources.

Closing thread to further posts.