I'm on the pioneer site right now and see two slot load drives. One is the DVD-106s and the other DVD-305s. The dvd-106s is 16x ATAPI and the other is 10x SCSI. Does it matter if it's scsi or not? And anyone know which company has the best dvd-rom drives? Also looking for quiet ones too! Thx
lhgpoobaa
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well if you get that scsi you wont be able to connect it up to your IDE ports thats for sure.
you will have to get a PCI scsi card and cable.
the advantages though are that u can then run many devices off that card, and the CPU utilisation when using the dvd drive is alot lower (note: for general reading, not dvd playing. dvd playing will still need to use the cpu)
generally pioneer or liteon are most talked about... they seem to be by far the most popular brands.
i have a pioneer 106S and i like it very much.
a tad noisy perhaps on full spin, but that doesnt happen too often and its alot better than my old sony 52x cdrom.
also, a 10x dvd is bound to be quieter than a 16x as it spins slower!
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you will have to get a PCI scsi card and cable.
the advantages though are that u can then run many devices off that card, and the CPU utilisation when using the dvd drive is alot lower (note: for general reading, not dvd playing. dvd playing will still need to use the cpu)
generally pioneer or liteon are most talked about... they seem to be by far the most popular brands.
i have a pioneer 106S and i like it very much.
a tad noisy perhaps on full spin, but that doesnt happen too often and its alot better than my old sony 52x cdrom.
also, a 10x dvd is bound to be quieter than a 16x as it spins slower!
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Thanks! Well I have a scsi card but not worrying bout ports or anything. With 1024mb RDRAM I don't think it will be able to really kill the CPU utilisation...
Yeah I know Pionner and liteon are one of the best right now. I'm just wondering which one would have a better performance and run quieter.. Thanks
So 10x DVD will be quieter for sure?...
Yeah I know Pionner and liteon are one of the best right now. I'm just wondering which one would have a better performance and run quieter.. Thanks
So 10x DVD will be quieter for sure?...
lhgpoobaa
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well THEORETICALLY the 10x should be the quieter one, and i think it is... but its best to ask others.
not that the 106S is especially loud... a tad noisy when copying cd's or dvd's at full speed, however its pretty quiet when it counts... while playing a dvd.
i believe, though im not certain, that the liton is the quietest
and with your system u really dont need scsi unless u want super fast hard drives.
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not that the 106S is especially loud... a tad noisy when copying cd's or dvd's at full speed, however its pretty quiet when it counts... while playing a dvd.
i believe, though im not certain, that the liton is the quietest
and with your system u really dont need scsi unless u want super fast hard drives.
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lhgpoobaa
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definately... the speed of the disk determines the ultimate noise output, although the quality and balance of the drive can help (or hinder) alot.
many modern drives also come with accoustic balancing, and of course this varies between brands and models.
yoru bet bet is to have a hunt around for dvd reviews that include accoustic ratings.
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many modern drives also come with accoustic balancing, and of course this varies between brands and models.
yoru bet bet is to have a hunt around for dvd reviews that include accoustic ratings.
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lhgpoobaa
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that used to be the case yes,
but now CPU's ahve become more powerful, so the cpu usage has fallen to levels low enough it really doesnt matter.
we also have DMA and ata33/66/100/133 now too, further increasing transfer efficiency...
so unless your system is mega busy doing other things then using an ata 16x dvd will spank a scsi 10x in speed.
thats why you dont find many scsi cd drives anymore.
once upon a time ata & atapi was slow and resource hogging. now it isnt, and in the past years the number of scsi cd-rom's, dvd's and cd-burners produced has fallen dramatically. there is little demand anymore.
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but now CPU's ahve become more powerful, so the cpu usage has fallen to levels low enough it really doesnt matter.
we also have DMA and ata33/66/100/133 now too, further increasing transfer efficiency...
so unless your system is mega busy doing other things then using an ata 16x dvd will spank a scsi 10x in speed.
thats why you dont find many scsi cd drives anymore.
once upon a time ata & atapi was slow and resource hogging. now it isnt, and in the past years the number of scsi cd-rom's, dvd's and cd-burners produced has fallen dramatically. there is little demand anymore.
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I see.. I know that SCSI isn't as common anymore but do they not have much faster transfer rates??? An 56x IDE CD-Rom have a transfer rate of 33.3 MB/sec (Ultra DMA mode) and a 40x SCSI CD-Rom has a 40MB/sec burst transfer rate. Can you tell me a bit about DMA?
lhgpoobaa
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heh. glutton for info aintcha?
The Typical bandwidth of a SCSI channel is ALOT larger than a ide drive.
the best ide can do is 133mb/sec and the standard SCSI is 160 or even 320.
of course, if you are using just one drive there is no way you will even use a tenth of 160mb/sec
i.e. my Pioneer 106S can do dvd's at 16x and cd's at 40x
so the max transfer rates we are looking at are
21Mb/sec for dvd, 6Mb/sec for cd copying.
thus while my dvd drive is actually ATA66, it will still run just as fast set to ata33.
of course u will get better burst transfer rates, but that really doesnt have much of an impact at all.
so the bandwidth advantages of scsi only exist for when u sport multiple drives.
and finally.
DMA = Direct Memory Access.
not sure exactly what happens, but i think with DMA enabled the drives and the IDE controller are allowed direct access to the memory independent of the Operating system... which makes the process alot faster and less resource hogging.
if u wanna see how much difference it makes, try disabling DMA on one of your drives!
win2k has a habbit of doing that at really strange times to me... and Non-DMA mode (PIO) is baaaaaaaaad. slow, and makes my athlon chuggy.
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The Typical bandwidth of a SCSI channel is ALOT larger than a ide drive.
the best ide can do is 133mb/sec and the standard SCSI is 160 or even 320.
of course, if you are using just one drive there is no way you will even use a tenth of 160mb/sec
i.e. my Pioneer 106S can do dvd's at 16x and cd's at 40x
so the max transfer rates we are looking at are
21Mb/sec for dvd, 6Mb/sec for cd copying.
thus while my dvd drive is actually ATA66, it will still run just as fast set to ata33.
of course u will get better burst transfer rates, but that really doesnt have much of an impact at all.
so the bandwidth advantages of scsi only exist for when u sport multiple drives.
and finally.
DMA = Direct Memory Access.
not sure exactly what happens, but i think with DMA enabled the drives and the IDE controller are allowed direct access to the memory independent of the Operating system... which makes the process alot faster and less resource hogging.
if u wanna see how much difference it makes, try disabling DMA on one of your drives!
win2k has a habbit of doing that at really strange times to me... and Non-DMA mode (PIO) is baaaaaaaaad. slow, and makes my athlon chuggy.
Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!
hehe yeah. Trying to build a system but don't know where to start..
Ahhh. I see.. Thx LHGPooBaa~! I get it all now. Might as well as go with ide since I haven't seen any 320 hardrive and don't think I can use it at it's full potential anyways... not worth paying for scsi anyways.. Haha I don't think I'd ever wanna disable DMA then... Thanks again for all of the info!
Ahhh. I see.. Thx LHGPooBaa~! I get it all now. Might as well as go with ide since I haven't seen any 320 hardrive and don't think I can use it at it's full potential anyways... not worth paying for scsi anyways.. Haha I don't think I'd ever wanna disable DMA then... Thanks again for all of the info!
lhgpoobaa
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well u could string a few 10,000rpm scsi hard disks up into a raid array... but that extreme performance is for nuts 
and dont worry... somewhere along the line silly windows will disable DMA for you
Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!
and dont worry... somewhere along the line silly windows will disable DMA for you
Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!
lhgpoobaa
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i assume u meant to say "full use of the scsi bandwidth"
well u would use it when u set up a raid array with 4 15k scsi drives.
each drive has a sustained transfer rate around 50mb/sec
so having 4 running parralel means u would have well over 150mb/sec transfer rate
super fast... but also super costly.
Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!
well u would use it when u set up a raid array with 4 15k scsi drives.
each drive has a sustained transfer rate around 50mb/sec
so having 4 running parralel means u would have well over 150mb/sec transfer rate
super fast... but also super costly.
Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!
yes sorry.. that's right.
I thought a drive can sustain a transfer rate of 160mb/sec already? Seagate Ultra160 drives. But to think about what can I do with such fast drives? I know they cost a lot but your basically paying for higher transfer rate, bandwidth, and access time..
I thought a drive can sustain a transfer rate of 160mb/sec already? Seagate Ultra160 drives. But to think about what can I do with such fast drives? I know they cost a lot but your basically paying for higher transfer rate, bandwidth, and access time..
lhgpoobaa
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a single drive sustaining 160mb/sec? heh. no.
best drive around, the seagate 36mb 15k, can probably do around 60mb/sec or so... on the start of the media.
so burst transfer rates basically mean diddly squat.
some guy did a comparison of a maxtor drive at ata100 vs ata133 and found that the max performance difference was less than 5% in any single benchmark... about 1-2% overall.
so all ata133 or scsi160 means is that the maximum burst rate is 133mb/sec or 160.
the real thing that determines sustained transfer rate is the drive rotational speed, platter density and to a lesser extent drive software optimisations and cache.
Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!
best drive around, the seagate 36mb 15k, can probably do around 60mb/sec or so... on the start of the media.
so burst transfer rates basically mean diddly squat.
some guy did a comparison of a maxtor drive at ata100 vs ata133 and found that the max performance difference was less than 5% in any single benchmark... about 1-2% overall.
so all ata133 or scsi160 means is that the maximum burst rate is 133mb/sec or 160.
the real thing that determines sustained transfer rate is the drive rotational speed, platter density and to a lesser extent drive software optimisations and cache.
Morally destitute, Emotionally bankrupt but a proud and respected member of Toms Forums!
Are you sure??...
hmm I see... guess ATA100 would be a lot better value then..
alright so burst transfer rate is the highest it would ever reach to data transfer but not the average?...
anyways I got a question.. my old computer which is an AMD Athlon 1.3GHz cpu core has a tiny piece chipped off... On the core where it says AMD Athlon on the top left the M in AMD is chipped cutting the top of the M off.. Not sure how it really happened but guessing something tiny got on it and it burned and melted a little...would this totally destroy my cpu and mobo? or just the cpu?...
anyways if you don't know it's okay... just asking..
Thanks for the info!
hmm I see... guess ATA100 would be a lot better value then..
alright so burst transfer rate is the highest it would ever reach to data transfer but not the average?...
anyways I got a question.. my old computer which is an AMD Athlon 1.3GHz cpu core has a tiny piece chipped off... On the core where it says AMD Athlon on the top left the M in AMD is chipped cutting the top of the M off.. Not sure how it really happened but guessing something tiny got on it and it burned and melted a little...would this totally destroy my cpu and mobo? or just the cpu?...
anyways if you don't know it's okay... just asking..
Thanks for the info!
lhgpoobaa
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oh yes...
i suggest u head over to www.storagereview.com and have a look at some comprehensive benchmarks.
sustained transefer rates, unless in a raid configuration, are WELL below that of the burst speed.
tough luck on your core...
coulda been a bit of grit or something... more likely it was too much writting and wobbling when putting on the heatsink (poor heatsink design can exacerbate the problem too)
depending on how bad the chip is it might work or not.
best thing to do is to carefully put a HS back on it and boot it up.
worst case is it just wont boot.
it it DOES work, keep an eye out for excessivly high temps and lockups... if these happen then its pretty much dead too.
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
i suggest u head over to www.storagereview.com and have a look at some comprehensive benchmarks.
sustained transefer rates, unless in a raid configuration, are WELL below that of the burst speed.
tough luck on your core...
coulda been a bit of grit or something... more likely it was too much writting and wobbling when putting on the heatsink (poor heatsink design can exacerbate the problem too)
depending on how bad the chip is it might work or not.
best thing to do is to carefully put a HS back on it and boot it up.
worst case is it just wont boot.
it it DOES work, keep an eye out for excessivly high temps and lockups... if these happen then its pretty much dead too.
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
okay thanks I'll take a look.
well right now I don't think I would go into raid. 15k rpm hardrives aren't worth paying for and also have to buy the SCSI card.
well everything does bootup sorta... Here's what this whole thing leads to. I format my computer with winxp pro. (burned but worked perfectly fine for 5 other comps)(also used to work perfectly fine on the athlon 1.3) But had a virus and had to format..
When finish formatting and copying system files it restarts. Then it starts up winxp pro. and the blue screen appears and flickers and begins the setup. But however it doesn't flicker and it just stops from there. There's where my problem is. It doesn't start the setup. And I'm guessing it's either the CPU or mobo... so not sure.. EVERY other cpu hardware I switched around already just not the cpu or mobo. So I'm guessing it's either one...
Anyways thanks for the site. I think I'm going to get the Western Digital Caviar WD1200JB since there's also an 8mb cache. But going to look into other drives.
Thanks again!
well right now I don't think I would go into raid. 15k rpm hardrives aren't worth paying for and also have to buy the SCSI card.
well everything does bootup sorta... Here's what this whole thing leads to. I format my computer with winxp pro. (burned but worked perfectly fine for 5 other comps)(also used to work perfectly fine on the athlon 1.3) But had a virus and had to format..
When finish formatting and copying system files it restarts. Then it starts up winxp pro. and the blue screen appears and flickers and begins the setup. But however it doesn't flicker and it just stops from there. There's where my problem is. It doesn't start the setup. And I'm guessing it's either the CPU or mobo... so not sure.. EVERY other cpu hardware I switched around already just not the cpu or mobo. So I'm guessing it's either one...
Anyways thanks for the site. I think I'm going to get the Western Digital Caviar WD1200JB since there's also an 8mb cache. But going to look into other drives.
Thanks again!
lhgpoobaa
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well as you have stated the cpu core is chipped... so my money is on the cpu being the culprit.
and i doubt it will get any better either... its best i think to bit the bullet and get a new CPU. and take a little more care this time round. btw... what HSF are u using ontop of it?
and yes... the 1200JB (or BB:SE) is arguably the best and fastest IDE drive around.
the 8Mb cache really cant be beaten.
of course, it will cost you a premium to get.
if you dont get that one, i also reccommend the 80Gb maxtor D740X. fast & reliable.
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
and i doubt it will get any better either... its best i think to bit the bullet and get a new CPU. and take a little more care this time round. btw... what HSF are u using ontop of it?
and yes... the 1200JB (or BB:SE) is arguably the best and fastest IDE drive around.
the 8Mb cache really cant be beaten.
of course, it will cost you a premium to get.
if you dont get that one, i also reccommend the 80Gb maxtor D740X. fast & reliable.
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
yeah guessing it is too... oh wells I didn't really like that cpu anyways.
using a coolermaster cooler... Piece a junk to me.. Well on the new intel cpu I'm gonna get will probably be a swiftech... heard they are pretty good but just loud. so I'll probably change the fan..
yeah it's because of the 8mb cache feature..... but I wouldn't mind the cost.. I mean it's 4 times more cache then regular drives..
yeah I looked at the D740X but not really to my standards.. What I'm really trying to look for is hardware that is more than enough for yourself and not have to go out and replace with something even knewer when it already meets your standards..
Haha what bout CPU chips? Like Intel and AMD.. they have OEM!
You know what's the best ide cd-rom drive you can get that can read burned media?... Kenwood 72x would've been perfect cept the DON'T read burned media..
using a coolermaster cooler... Piece a junk to me.. Well on the new intel cpu I'm gonna get will probably be a swiftech... heard they are pretty good but just loud. so I'll probably change the fan..
yeah it's because of the 8mb cache feature..... but I wouldn't mind the cost.. I mean it's 4 times more cache then regular drives..
yeah I looked at the D740X but not really to my standards.. What I'm really trying to look for is hardware that is more than enough for yourself and not have to go out and replace with something even knewer when it already meets your standards..
Haha what bout CPU chips? Like Intel and AMD.. they have OEM!
You know what's the best ide cd-rom drive you can get that can read burned media?... Kenwood 72x would've been perfect cept the DON'T read burned media..
lhgpoobaa
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swiftech are pretty good.
i myself have the top of the line model,
the MCX-462 (not to be confused with the older and less good MC-462A)
and yes... the 80mm delta fan that came with it is too loud, even with the rheostat to slow it down.
what ive got at the moment is the mcx-462 with a 3900rpm 80mm pabst fan ontop... gives very good cooling at full speed, and very quiet cooling at slow speed (around 3000rpm)
pluss it was a breeze to install, no risk of cracking my cpu core
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
i myself have the top of the line model,
the MCX-462 (not to be confused with the older and less good MC-462A)
and yes... the 80mm delta fan that came with it is too loud, even with the rheostat to slow it down.
what ive got at the moment is the mcx-462 with a 3900rpm 80mm pabst fan ontop... gives very good cooling at full speed, and very quiet cooling at slow speed (around 3000rpm)
pluss it was a breeze to install, no risk of cracking my cpu core
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
lhgpoobaa
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well if your looking for supreme performance... maybe u should consider scsi, cauz a 10k rpm drive will even beat the 1200JB with 8mb.
or consider doing a Raid 0 with two 120JB's for twice the performance.
as for cd drives... *shrug*
may as well just get a combo dvd/cd drive and be done with it... they are all much of a muchness. best u will get i think is a 56x cd-rom drive... but they sound like jet engines cauz they have to spin so fast...
i love my pioneer 106S. its decently fast, nice slot loader, not too loud (quieter than my 52x sony cd-rom), does admirable cd rips at 16x and handles all media i throw at it
cd, cd-r, cd-rw etc
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
or consider doing a Raid 0 with two 120JB's for twice the performance.
as for cd drives... *shrug*
may as well just get a combo dvd/cd drive and be done with it... they are all much of a muchness. best u will get i think is a 56x cd-rom drive... but they sound like jet engines cauz they have to spin so fast...
i love my pioneer 106S. its decently fast, nice slot loader, not too loud (quieter than my 52x sony cd-rom), does admirable cd rips at 16x and handles all media i throw at it
cd, cd-r, cd-rw etc
Anything i think of as 'Decent' is unlikely to ever become 'OEM'
not exactly looking for supreme performance just enough for my needs.... well thinking bout scsi... I wouldn't mind getting scsi if the prices are lower and Ultra320 hardrives are out and became really cheap.........
If I ever wanted to put more than 2 hardrives in my system I would have to get a IDE controller card right? If so you know which company that has the best ones? Since IDE is already pretty cheap.
Raid 0? I'm new at Raid and I don't quite get it... it's like putting multiple hardrives in an array or somethhing like that right?.. and would I need hardware to do this?
oh I might get a combo... but the price is like almost double...is there any difference to the 106s and 116?... It's newer that 106s but I don't see a difference but the 106s is slot load which I like.
but I also wouldn't use my dvd-rom feature though.. I have a old dvd/cd combo and I never put a dvd in it yet!.. because I have a seperate dvd player for my tv already so why would I want to use it.... That's why I'm thinking of Cd-rom........ like when will you ever use your dvd-rom?? Unless your computer is connected to your tv or you have a huge monitor or lcd or plasma display.. or you're ripping dvds for people get off of you..
If I ever wanted to put more than 2 hardrives in my system I would have to get a IDE controller card right? If so you know which company that has the best ones? Since IDE is already pretty cheap.
Raid 0? I'm new at Raid and I don't quite get it... it's like putting multiple hardrives in an array or somethhing like that right?.. and would I need hardware to do this?
oh I might get a combo... but the price is like almost double...is there any difference to the 106s and 116?... It's newer that 106s but I don't see a difference but the 106s is slot load which I like.
but I also wouldn't use my dvd-rom feature though.. I have a old dvd/cd combo and I never put a dvd in it yet!.. because I have a seperate dvd player for my tv already so why would I want to use it.... That's why I'm thinking of Cd-rom........ like when will you ever use your dvd-rom?? Unless your computer is connected to your tv or you have a huge monitor or lcd or plasma display.. or you're ripping dvds for people get off of you..
oh that's good..
Pabst fan? or you mean Papst fan??
was it a 80mm case fan and you just swapped the fans??
Does it fit well? I mean it's the screw that's just a little longer right?
Trying to figure out a way to swap fans because I want it to be quiet... but by having a quieter fan the CFM is probably a lot lower.. doesn't that cause your cpu temp to go up a little more? So then I looked at www.amuzuma.com. It's a universal fan adapter for any heatsink I guess and I guess I'm going to mount a 92mm fan since it will have a higher CFM and lower dbA...
Well does it really matter how much CFM the fan puts out anyways?... Not really wanting to pay 15 dollars for a piece of plastic...
Pabst fan? or you mean Papst fan??
was it a 80mm case fan and you just swapped the fans??
Does it fit well? I mean it's the screw that's just a little longer right?
Trying to figure out a way to swap fans because I want it to be quiet... but by having a quieter fan the CFM is probably a lot lower.. doesn't that cause your cpu temp to go up a little more? So then I looked at www.amuzuma.com. It's a universal fan adapter for any heatsink I guess and I guess I'm going to mount a 92mm fan since it will have a higher CFM and lower dbA...
Well does it really matter how much CFM the fan puts out anyways?... Not really wanting to pay 15 dollars for a piece of plastic...
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