Second Take: Console Piracy On The Rise?

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allenpan. What the hell does the nationality of ATI and Nvidia's head honcho's have to do console piracy. Console piracy IS on the rise.

Back in the day growing I knew mod chips and such existed for the playstation. In fact my brother did have a modded playstation but we had only 2 copied games that we got when we bought it. However where the heck were two teenagers with a 28k dial up connection supposed to go on the net to download cd copies.

Back then kazaa, bearshare, and limewire were the kings of file sharing. cd burners were almost 100 dollars. And no places in town (50k population) had burned copies of playstation games. Even knowing more than most teenagers about piracy and actively looking for burned games. IT WAS HARD.

Compare that to today's consoles and piracy. A simple bios flash for the 360 and a torrent site is all you need. Everything you need nowadays can be downloaded and ready to go within an hour. Console piracy is on the rise. Your "I know more about console piracy and its roots than you do" attitude is annoying.
 
I think people are blaming all the decline of PC gaming on piracy and all the decline in sales on it too. I will admit that it plays a significant part but I think that cheap, weak integrated graphics from the major technology companies are too blame especially intel since they set the trend.

I think this because most people who pirate games have a moderate knowledge of computers. Thats not to say programmers or enthusiasts but people who can reformat their pc and other slightly more complex tasks than the norm. Now imagine if all those people who only use their computer for surfing the net, or watching movies etc had a capable graphics system on their pc, lets say equivalent to the 8600gt. Now they can play new titles on medium graphics settings no problem and they are faced with the choice between a 70 euro console game and a 30 euro or less pc game. Suddenly a lot more peole are playing pc games yah? Even if only 10% went with the pc game choice it still would be quite an increase. And in mostly the kind of people who wouldnt know a torrent from a toenail.

I bet if the integrated graphics market kept up with gaming technology over the years the pc gaming market would be far larger, not as big as the console market mind you but quite large especially considering the fact that nowadays everyone has a computer with capable a cpu and ram.

I am a pirate and I know it is wrong but I do it anyways because Im not goin spending money on games, for me its a choice between pirating a game and no game at all. I just think we are letting the Nvidia,AMD and Intel get away with too much as regards their integrated graphics and the effect that has on the market.
 
Ugh, you two...I'm so sick of this subject. The fact that it's at least acknowledged in the public domain every day means this problem will probably do one of two things:

1. Carry on as normal, or
2. Be quelled (although never stopped) through some means

I'd actually like to see a serious discussion about what I think are really the problems for the downturn in PC gaming and they're not something I see being pounded on like piracy.

PC gaming, IMHO, has been on a downward spiral because of, to put it succinctly, sh*t games and big money (which, these days, seems to go hand in hand). The amount of titles being prematurely released in the name of big money and release dates is absolutely ridiculous.

Nasty bugs, random CTD's...you name it. Games are hitting shelves and having critical patches ONE WEEK later! These games aren't even working right straight out of the gate! Why is this? What's causing it? Is it high-level execs sticking their nose into what should be the devs' business (ie. making design decisions and telling them to cut corners??)? Is it the lack of competition from small TPD's because they get bought up the moment large publishers sniff a good studio and proceed to turn them into another wing of an out of control behemoth that's rotten to the core with inner politics and wherein their creative say is basically sh*t-canned in the name of budget?

This is the kind of thing that's ruining PC gaming and it's been happening for too long. Look at the reasons Sid Meier gave for leaving MicroProse and starting Firaxis...12 years ago, before it got REALLY nasty. When some of the best designers in the industry say "screw this", you know the game's up.

I find it all highly ironic that these huge publishers are on devs' backs to get things released, all in the name of money, but when the game is released and is a mess of bugs and half-a**ed content, they wonder why people don't want to buy it. It's a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black as far as I'm concerned...first to complain, last one to do anything about it etc. "Gaaah...sales are cra*p!! I know!! Blame it on piracy!!"

As a law-abiding consumer I'm sick of this and it's a HUGE reason I rarely buy games on release nowadays...I wait until it goes on sale and all the bugs have been worked out of it, it's something I learned a LONG time ago with Windows. Why waste my money? Any more I feel like a beta tester for the cr*p that's coming out now...that's not my job. WHY is this happening? Where's the discussion???

Rob, you can't sit there and tell me this isn't as big of a cause for the general mailaise and downturn in PC gaming than piracy. You're around my age, you now what it was like before true "big money" got its hands on the PC side of gaming. The stifling of third-party developers by the big publishers in an effort to make them in-house is just one of the many unspoken crimes that's severely undermined PC gaming.

You wanna' shake up the PC industry? Go talk about this with a dev who's not afraid of losing their job...and therein lies my point.

Off my soapbox and back to lurk mode...
 


Chmod, you make a good point. There are plenty of examples of crap games hyped by publishers before release but then ship with an assortment of bugs and overall poor quality because of unrealistic deadlines and rushed development. It would be great if every developer could take the route of a Valve or Blizzard, who use the mantra of "it will ship when it's ready" and refuse to send a product out to customers that isn't top shelf quality.

BUT -- and this is a big but, if you'll excuse the pun -- here's the catch: games are getting increasingly more expensive to make. We're talking $50-60 million in a lot of cases. And if a large percentage of "customers" are ripping the games without paying for them, then the publishers will spend less money to make the games and lower budgets will lead to low quality title in a lot of cases. I mean, look at it from the perspective of a publisher -- why should they spend millions of dollars trying to make a game for fans when the "fans" are just pirating the content? The sad reality is that because of the economics of game development, only a small number of developers can do what Valve and Blizzard do, which is take years to develop top titles with their own schedule and QA the hell out of them to make sure they're ready. We'll see more and more Hellgates the way the business is going (and BTW, Hellgate shuts down in February).

So my point is, piracy is not a stand-alone topic. It's part of the economics of the game industry, and it's tied in with everything else.

@Skalagon, I don't want to beat up on you personally, but you did admit that you don't pay for games. Well, you're ruining it for the rest of us, and I urge you to stop blaming integrated graphics and take a long look in the mirror. Honestly, I'm shocked that you think Intel and AMD are "getting away with something" when you don't pay a red cent for a game. Please look for another hobby, one that doesn't require you to spend a lot of money. I suggest investing in a hacky sack -- it can provide hours of mindless enjoyment 😉
 
It would be great if every developer could take the route of a Valve or Blizzard, who use the mantra of "it will ship when it's ready" and refuse to send a product out to customers that isn't top shelf quality.

Rob, you kind of hit at what I'm getting at. I mean, look at Id...I read an interview months back where they said they only sign publishing contracts for one game at a time...that's how much pull they have in the industry because of their back catalogue. But it seems nowaday's that new TPD's aren't even being allowed to release one hit game without the publishers splashing their face all over it because they are seeing their work at a forum or conference etc. and so they try to put them under their wing before they're allowed to get to a point where they have a modicum of control over their own place in the gaming industry. A big stink was made of this practice years back and then it was quietly shoved under the rug. The concern about all these mergers still rages on though. Look at the recent Vivendi and Activision merger for that example...people freaked, and rightly so. But here again Blizzard, like Id, has so much pull that it's now Activision Blizzard and not Activision Vivendi.

To me, it also seems no coicidence that Steam was born after Half-Life put Valve on the map. Why is that? I think you saw, like many of us, where Steam was really heading...even though it wasn't blatantly positioned as such when it first came out. Gabe's no fool and I think he got a heaping taste of the problems that were/are negatively affecting the health of PC gaming after the success of Half-Life...both of which we're talking about here. I fully understand where the publishers are coming from and things like the 'Romero Experience' and, more recently, all the crap that went down with Vanguard has, rightly, soured some things. Here's a third aspect we haven't discusssed but which you brought up...budget.

You mentioned how big the budget is now for games but, IMHO, I think a lot of that is down to the fact that it's now the perception that you have to have specialized devs for each and every aspect of a game. Blizzard now employs over 2500 people!! Are you kidding me? That's absolutely ridiculous considering they don't exactly pump out games hand-over-fist. I'd like to see the percentage of the budget that's gone into Starcraft II and Diablo III just to fund payroll, once they've been released. I was watching the DVD special from my GoTY Edition of Civ4 that Firaxis apparently played for the GDC a few years back about the development process for Civ4. One of the problems brought up was the communication issues they had in-house because the animator/s couldn't properly convey things to the coders about how something should look. I can only imagine what kinds of things go on in much bigger studios that have umpteen animators, coders, texture artists, level designers, audio engineers blah blah blah blah blah...come on!!

You can cite game complexity if you like and the arguement has its place to a certain extent but, going by the last 6-7 years, game complexity apparently has less and less to do with creativity, playability and longevity. These are the hallmarks of a great game yet the stuff that's put out now is so one-dimensional it's not even funny. How long have we been waiting now for something to recapture the feel of classics like Fallout, DeusEx or Baldur's Gate? I recently made the mistake of biting the bullet and buying Dead Space...meh, it's OK and that's about it. If we're being honest here it's nothing special Rob, I know you're a fan of the genre but don't let that fool you (I dont' think you will BTW). It suffers from the same thing so many games do now...repetition, lack of depth/story and replayability. It's as though games now are meant to to be played once and thrown away and for $50-60, in this economy (ANY economy really), I'm not surprised why people either copy it or, like me, find myself more and more often saying "hell no" and heading off to the $20 bargain bin to pick up 2 well-respected titles for $20 less...safe in the knowledge I'm going to get 10x more for my money.

I know piracy is and has been a problem and I'm more than happy to agree to disagree on this but, IMHO, everything I've talked about is just as much a cause for the slump as piracy, if not more. Maybe I feel this way because I don't even pay attention to or partake in piracy but I'm not the only one y'know? I know piracy's out there and I know it doesn't help the dev's but I'm already doing my part because I can't be bothered with it. But on the flip side of all this piracy crap, have dev's and publishers even considered the fact that there's a whole other group of us out here; longtime gamers...adults in their 30's and 40's with jobs, who CAN afford this stuff and are mature enough to not even contemplate piracy but are just plain sick of feeling like we just paid $50 to bug test or, essentially, be BORED for a measly 10 hours? I remember when I used to buy games at release and AGAIN when they hit the bargain bin because my old disc was so scratched up by then that I couldn't get it to install when I what (???)...decided to play it, AGAIN!! I haven't had to do this since Civ4, before that Half-Life and, before THAT, Quake...I won't even bother to delve into the era of floppy. "Who put my King's Quest on top of the speaker, damnit!!"

Sorry for the long posts but like I've said in previous ones, I've done my best not to get embroiled in this debate and I just want to get it all out, now that you've water-boarded it out of me with all these vids on the subject.

:)
 
chmod000: I definitely agree with your viewpoint on creativity. For example, I've always felt the complexity and shear enjoyability of the final fantasy series has declined as the series has progressed, with the biggest drop off after FF7. I think Rob was getting at something else though: the complexity of the game in terms of graphics and the game engine. Its unfortunate, but it seems like things such as plot lines and originality have been given the heave ho to make more time to code. Not that I don't like graphics, but I would rather have game companies hire more people and charge more for the game than release half a game with no story line.

allenpan: Piracy is clearly on the rise, which clearly explains why companies are using anti-piracy methods (DRM) now, which they did not use earlier for older consoles and PC games. You have not accounted for why companies are going through the extensive hassle and spending millions of dollars developing anti piracy methods. Why would they do this if piracy is not on the rise?

You really seem to have your head on backwards! You said yourself there is more publicity about piracy, and then said there is a lack of people knowing about it! Those are two directly contradicting statements. I am not going to debate this with you anymore as you clearly are just being stubborn and not listening to what anyone else is saying.
 

There was no piratebay, but p2p networks date back before bittorrent protocol. And even if you don't personally have broadband, everyone knows a friend of a friend who has one, and let the downloading commence. Another thing is what people did was pool their resources. Group of friends, everyone bought their own game, and burned copies for their friends and friends of friends. Like back in the Amiga days. Only their own resourcefulness could have prevented people from getting most of their games for free back then.

Speaking of Amiga, I think they should bring back the copy protection from those days. Everyone loved the Monkey Island 2 Mojo Wheel.

And lastly, creativity, expensive game development and all that... Indie games are the answer. Just now I've been playing World of Goo for the past couple of days with insane glee that I haven't had with an AAA title in a while. I wish some of the big developers would take a lesson or two from indie games. Games need to be more interesting, not that same junk over and over again.
 


Pretty much most of the games of the past few years have been just a graphics upgrade. Kill X or Find Y kinda gets boring =(. Also for copy protection, nothing more than simple cd-in drive should be enough. If a pirate wanted a game he would have gotten it. No point in punishing the people who actually obey the law! Some times I think the pirates have it better off...
 
Greetings!

You noticed that, hen?

 
Just FYI, AFAIK the PS3 is not yet moddable. And the XBOX360 is now shipping with new LiteOn drives that are so far unmoddable with not much hope in sight. Furthermore all repaired 360s are bing sent back with these new drives in them, so all rrods on previously modded systems will render them unmoddable on return. So I believe modding nextgen systems is on the fall.
 
"Compare that to today's consoles and piracy. A simple bios flash for the 360 and a torrent site is all you need. Everything you need nowadays can be downloaded and ready to go within an hour. Console piracy is on the rise. Your "I know more about console piracy and its roots than you do" attitude is annoying."

Flashing a 360 is not a simple process at all. Depending on which of 4 drives you have there is a different and convoluted process, not the least issue is with actually opening the 360 without voiding the warranty. It's simply out of the reach of most people, with small businesses instead providing this service for a fee in most cases. Furthermore all new and repaired 360s are having the new unmoddable liteOn drive installed which cannot be flashed as yet with not much hope in sight.
 



Ahh; miss the old tomsgames days...