I also don't think piracy was the main cause of Iron Lore. I just bought the game very recently off steam for 20 bucks. I consider myself a hard core pc gamer, however, I never heard of Titan Quest until it was selling for 20 bucks on Steam and D2D. Among all my friends I game with, only one of them has ever even heard of the game. I'm not saying that they would have closed down anyways if there were no piracy of the game, but I'll assume it was mainly something else, whether it be THQ like some are saying or not.
robwright
Distinguished
- Feb 16, 2006
- 1,129
- 7
- 19,285
A couple things to address:
Winkgood, I have not played Titan Quest. I respect you view of the situation, and you make some excellent points about problems with Titan Quest and the game's support, or lack thereof.
Sorry to hear we are boring you, Hallubalooza. Any advice on how to make the videos more exciting? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly interested in constructive criticism.
Clay12340, you are correct: Fitch goes off on a great many things regarding Iron Lore's closure in that forum post -- including some great stuff on game reviewers. But he starts off with, and spends the most time on, game piracy, so I don't think we're taking anything out of context or misrepresenting what Fitch wrote.
PsY X, are you the same person who, on the forum thread about Iron Lore's closure, wrote the following statement: "Yeah, they're dead now, I'll go get my tiny violin."? And you're here on this thread admitting you pirated Titan Quest? Are you for real?
Lastly, here are some random thoughts:
How many people here on this discussion thread have admitted to pirating games, for whatever reason? Are we really going to continue to fool ourselves about what this means for PC game developers? How long are we going to continue to penalize developers like Iron Lore that stick with the PC platform instead of jumping to consoles?
Here's something interesting: Kane & Lynch has an average score on GameRankings of about 67 percent, yet even with all the poor reviews and GameSpot-Eidos controversy, the game still sold more than 1 million copies on the consoles alone. Titan Quest was PC only and it had an average score of 80 percent, significantly better than K&L.
Now I put this simple question to the readers: if you were an independent game developer in this day and age, knowing what you know about PC game piracy, would you develop games for the PC or the consoles? Pick one or the other, and answer honestly. Then think about how many times we've all complained about how there are no good games on the PC and how every developer seems to be moving to the consoles. Are we honestly going to argue that downloading PC games illegally isn't contributing to this shift?
Winkgood, I have not played Titan Quest. I respect you view of the situation, and you make some excellent points about problems with Titan Quest and the game's support, or lack thereof.
Sorry to hear we are boring you, Hallubalooza. Any advice on how to make the videos more exciting? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly interested in constructive criticism.
Clay12340, you are correct: Fitch goes off on a great many things regarding Iron Lore's closure in that forum post -- including some great stuff on game reviewers. But he starts off with, and spends the most time on, game piracy, so I don't think we're taking anything out of context or misrepresenting what Fitch wrote.
PsY X, are you the same person who, on the forum thread about Iron Lore's closure, wrote the following statement: "Yeah, they're dead now, I'll go get my tiny violin."? And you're here on this thread admitting you pirated Titan Quest? Are you for real?
Lastly, here are some random thoughts:
How many people here on this discussion thread have admitted to pirating games, for whatever reason? Are we really going to continue to fool ourselves about what this means for PC game developers? How long are we going to continue to penalize developers like Iron Lore that stick with the PC platform instead of jumping to consoles?
Here's something interesting: Kane & Lynch has an average score on GameRankings of about 67 percent, yet even with all the poor reviews and GameSpot-Eidos controversy, the game still sold more than 1 million copies on the consoles alone. Titan Quest was PC only and it had an average score of 80 percent, significantly better than K&L.
Now I put this simple question to the readers: if you were an independent game developer in this day and age, knowing what you know about PC game piracy, would you develop games for the PC or the consoles? Pick one or the other, and answer honestly. Then think about how many times we've all complained about how there are no good games on the PC and how every developer seems to be moving to the consoles. Are we honestly going to argue that downloading PC games illegally isn't contributing to this shift?
Does piracy hurt to PC gaming market? Very likely. However there are ways to work around it. My favourite example is a studio called Stardock. They are an independent that created Galactic Civilizations and they beat piracy by offering something that can't be pirated, service. Their games have no DRM what so ever and you don't even need the CD or be online to play. If you buy the game you get access to their services like automatic updates and you can even download the game if you lost your CD. Also, their updates would be considered expansion packs by some. Their games are throughly tested and run on reasonable hardware. I would consider it a niche game compared to the sims, however, it appears to be doing quite well and they released a sequel. Now compare it with IL. DRM and buggy game play is like a slap in the face to a paying customer.
As a side note, I really hope that steam as it stands is not the future of PC games. I have read the EULA for steam and the way I understand it, the only way to abide by it is to not install the software in the first place. Furthermore, anything on steam inherently has less value to me because at anytime you can loose access to all your games if your account gets revoked or the client no longer supports the OS you are running, and you can't resell or loan anything you buy.
As a side note, I really hope that steam as it stands is not the future of PC games. I have read the EULA for steam and the way I understand it, the only way to abide by it is to not install the software in the first place. Furthermore, anything on steam inherently has less value to me because at anytime you can loose access to all your games if your account gets revoked or the client no longer supports the OS you are running, and you can't resell or loan anything you buy.
FaceLifter
Distinguished
- Dec 6, 2007
- 52
- 0
- 18,630
Bravo Rob!! I was so happy to see your latest video on piracy, however I don't agree with you that there could not be a shift in peoples opinions on piracy. I think, for example, if publishers spent some marketing dollars with sites like THG, the publics perception on piracy would change, not over night, but over time. It has worked for other industries and it would work for PC gaming. I truly believe that buying a PC game rather than downloading it could be seen as the cool thing to do. Anyways, keep up the good work!
On another note, I was wondering if there was a way that I could contact you(Rob)...
On another note, I was wondering if there was a way that I could contact you(Rob)...
FaceLifter
Distinguished
- Dec 6, 2007
- 52
- 0
- 18,630
pirating console games is just as easy. And if every developer switches to consoles then they will just lose more money to stores like gamestop that recycle all those games with no money being seen by the developer. When a game is good you want to buy it because you want all the updates and patches and addons. When the game is **** and cant keep your interest for more than a day or two whats the point. I had been on the edge about buying computer games, but i bought Hellgate and obviously got owned by flagship and that kind of just broke the camels back. I will never buy a pc game again until ive been able to demo it or play a free trial, i am so tired of spending 50 dollars just to get raped and be unable to return it.
Honestly if you just had a chat transcript i could read id be happy. I like to read your site at work in my freetime and i am interested in the subjects you discuss, i just dont want to listen to it lol.
robwright
Distinguished
- Feb 16, 2006
- 1,129
- 7
- 19,285
Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback. Chat transcripts would be hard, as we rarely write like we speak and vice versa. How about a podcast version of the show, like ESPN does with "Pardon the Interruption"? At least you wouldn't have to look at our ugly mugs.
It has nothing to do with you guys, i just would prefer to be able to read it. And im not sure what pardon the interruption is, I dont watch espn much. As far as the write the way you speak, we dont need it be exactly how you said it, anything would be better than nothing. Heres where im coming from, I have a strong opinion on the whole piracy killing the industry matter but I dont know what your views are because I dont want to sit here and watch the video. So now I can either contribute to the thread without the video or not contribute at all because theres no way im watching the video.
Also, K&L may have sold 1million copies but they also did a lot of TV commercials and completely overhyped their game. I cant remember seeing a TQ commercial anywhere and it obviously wasnt overhyped since theres a lot of people who havent even heard of it. I only know a handful of people who actually know how to pirate a game. I just cant picture 300,000 people pirating a mediocre game. In your statement you didnt say how many copies TQ sold compared to K&L.
Rob,
I won't defend piracy in any form, and I fully agree that developers are hurt by it. I buy my games and do my best to support the developers that I feel are working hard to create a quality product for my enjoyment. However, to say that piracy killed this company seems off to me. No doubt it played some role in reducing revenues, but I think the companies failures in other respects were the root cause. Straws and camels and all that though, so who's to say.
Console model of video games:
- Limited hardware platforms, therefore cheaper development costs
- Future support is more or less non-existant. A game at release is complete and your costs are finished.
- Huge buzz right now with anything HDTV. Free Marketing
- Brand new consoles are finally bringing current generation graphics to the consoles. More Free Marketing
- Better positioning in brick and mortar establishments. Yet again Free Marketing
- Less likely to be pirated. Less loss of revenue.
- Shorter lifespan per game. Less likely to have to compete with the classics and 5 years of character building.
PC model of video games:
- Expected audience is older. More mature content is accepted more readily.
- Lots of new venues for download sales on the way. Cheaper distribution.
- More powerful hardware. Better graphics more processing options.
- Game Longevity. Potential to sell a game over many years.
- The PC platform will be popular long into the future. Potential longevity.
- Aging consoles will become far inferior technologically to constantly improving PCs. Potential future-proofing.
So if you ask me where I'd make games right now it comes down to one of two driving reasons to make the game.
If I just want to make money quickly, then I'd slap some crappy game together and throw some kid show characters into it and drop it out on whatever console has the highest market penetration(PS2?). Development isn't going to cost much and you're almost guaranteed a certain number of sales to a customer base that more or less doesn't care about quality.
If I wanted to make games that were on the bleeding edge of technology, then I'd probably look towards the PC at the moment. Assuming a 3 year(Probably very short) timespan from start to release of a game the PS3 is going to be looking incredibly weak in processing power and isn't going to be capable of the type of processing that will be common place in that market.
Now if I rubbed my game genie and it granted me three blockbuster titles tomorrow, then I'd be releasing them on the consoles as at the moment there is simply more money being thrown out there with HDTVs and the new consoles getting so much hype and news coverage.
I won't defend piracy in any form, and I fully agree that developers are hurt by it. I buy my games and do my best to support the developers that I feel are working hard to create a quality product for my enjoyment. However, to say that piracy killed this company seems off to me. No doubt it played some role in reducing revenues, but I think the companies failures in other respects were the root cause. Straws and camels and all that though, so who's to say.
Console model of video games:
- Limited hardware platforms, therefore cheaper development costs
- Future support is more or less non-existant. A game at release is complete and your costs are finished.
- Huge buzz right now with anything HDTV. Free Marketing
- Brand new consoles are finally bringing current generation graphics to the consoles. More Free Marketing
- Better positioning in brick and mortar establishments. Yet again Free Marketing
- Less likely to be pirated. Less loss of revenue.
- Shorter lifespan per game. Less likely to have to compete with the classics and 5 years of character building.
PC model of video games:
- Expected audience is older. More mature content is accepted more readily.
- Lots of new venues for download sales on the way. Cheaper distribution.
- More powerful hardware. Better graphics more processing options.
- Game Longevity. Potential to sell a game over many years.
- The PC platform will be popular long into the future. Potential longevity.
- Aging consoles will become far inferior technologically to constantly improving PCs. Potential future-proofing.
So if you ask me where I'd make games right now it comes down to one of two driving reasons to make the game.
If I just want to make money quickly, then I'd slap some crappy game together and throw some kid show characters into it and drop it out on whatever console has the highest market penetration(PS2?). Development isn't going to cost much and you're almost guaranteed a certain number of sales to a customer base that more or less doesn't care about quality.
If I wanted to make games that were on the bleeding edge of technology, then I'd probably look towards the PC at the moment. Assuming a 3 year(Probably very short) timespan from start to release of a game the PS3 is going to be looking incredibly weak in processing power and isn't going to be capable of the type of processing that will be common place in that market.
Now if I rubbed my game genie and it granted me three blockbuster titles tomorrow, then I'd be releasing them on the consoles as at the moment there is simply more money being thrown out there with HDTVs and the new consoles getting so much hype and news coverage.
Well..
Lets just start off with a take on consoles..
Consoles, while there certainly are adults that play them--because we grew up with them... are for kids and less savvy people then your typical PC gamer.
They tend to buy a game via a commercial they see on TV.. or what it reads like via the back of the store.. or even perhaps how it plays when they rent the whole game from a VIDEO store--- Did Video stores kill Video game developers?...
There will always be better sales numbers on consoles.. as there has ALWAYS been better numbers over the whole spectrum for consoles.. They are geared entirely for gaming.. they are user friendly.. and the software that comes out for it does not have to deal with requiring expensive hardware upgrades to use!! We are talking about at the minimum end of a couple of hundred to up to multiple thousands of dollars to get a rig up to speed to play a game at the resolutions!
So cry me a river about a $50 dollar piece of software that someone downloads to give a thorough testing out before deciding to buy it.. demos are usually crap.. and offer no real view as to if you would want to actually OWN something to take up space on your shelf- I do not even bother with a limited Demo--If I have a desire to check a game out I download it- Play it.. decide if it is for me over a day or two.. then either buy it or erase it... and I must say what is killing the PC gaming industry is that I tend to ERASE the software because the games are JUNK!.. Most titles are hollow.. buggy.. hyped.. repetitive...theft of the customer.
Anygame worth playing.. is a game worth paying for... and that is the fact!..
Piracy did not sink TitanQuest & IronLore.. except for the fact that it did not allow them to STEAL from whomever downloaded it .. played it .. and decided it was crap and chucked it..
IronLore sunk Ironlore.. Just as piracy did not sink one of the best game developers that ever existed.. Interplay!!!
I actually love piracy... I wish there was more piracy.. albeit ethical piracy like the kind that I perform...
Now before you goody goody gumdrops who seriously don't get it and start bantering on about law this and copyright that.. Understand that there is one thing that Piracy does..
Is level the field of play... Piracy is the eye of God.. The Judge and Jury..
And it is smaller then you or the industry like to think it is.. although its impact is greater then its actual participation... Word of mouth...
Example
Buddy 1 on TeamSpeak "Oh man I wanna go to the store today and buy Titan Quest"
Buddy 2 on team speak "No dude don't! Save your money its total crap!"
Buddy 1 "Aww man really? I was really looking forward to an expansion and improvement to the genre"
Buddy 2 "Yeah me too .. but it is a turd!"
Buddy 1 "Ok man thanks for saving me $50 bucks...I will certainly let X number of people that also were looking forward to that game to stay away from it!! lets game up some [insert any legally owned game]!"
Buddy 2 "No problem man I have already told X number of people who were also disappointed... anyhow get ready to get owned!"
And thats how it works .. 1 download of a bad game does not equal one lost sale.. it is hundreds of lost sales..
The key word is BAD GAME.
Piracy is the crucible, that any game developer worth its salt must go through...
It keeps game developers honest... It fails to allow them to make crap games like Titan Quest..
I weep no tears for the failures of a gaming developer that makes mediocre drivel then requires me to waste 50 dollars on a total crap product..
Especially in todays economy where 50 dollars is half a tank of gas!
The Paradigm is changing people.. embrace it or die!
(speaking of that.. Why all the hoops to simply post on the forum???)
Lets just start off with a take on consoles..
Consoles, while there certainly are adults that play them--because we grew up with them... are for kids and less savvy people then your typical PC gamer.
They tend to buy a game via a commercial they see on TV.. or what it reads like via the back of the store.. or even perhaps how it plays when they rent the whole game from a VIDEO store--- Did Video stores kill Video game developers?...
There will always be better sales numbers on consoles.. as there has ALWAYS been better numbers over the whole spectrum for consoles.. They are geared entirely for gaming.. they are user friendly.. and the software that comes out for it does not have to deal with requiring expensive hardware upgrades to use!! We are talking about at the minimum end of a couple of hundred to up to multiple thousands of dollars to get a rig up to speed to play a game at the resolutions!
So cry me a river about a $50 dollar piece of software that someone downloads to give a thorough testing out before deciding to buy it.. demos are usually crap.. and offer no real view as to if you would want to actually OWN something to take up space on your shelf- I do not even bother with a limited Demo--If I have a desire to check a game out I download it- Play it.. decide if it is for me over a day or two.. then either buy it or erase it... and I must say what is killing the PC gaming industry is that I tend to ERASE the software because the games are JUNK!.. Most titles are hollow.. buggy.. hyped.. repetitive...theft of the customer.
Anygame worth playing.. is a game worth paying for... and that is the fact!..
Piracy did not sink TitanQuest & IronLore.. except for the fact that it did not allow them to STEAL from whomever downloaded it .. played it .. and decided it was crap and chucked it..
IronLore sunk Ironlore.. Just as piracy did not sink one of the best game developers that ever existed.. Interplay!!!
I actually love piracy... I wish there was more piracy.. albeit ethical piracy like the kind that I perform...
Now before you goody goody gumdrops who seriously don't get it and start bantering on about law this and copyright that.. Understand that there is one thing that Piracy does..
Is level the field of play... Piracy is the eye of God.. The Judge and Jury..
And it is smaller then you or the industry like to think it is.. although its impact is greater then its actual participation... Word of mouth...
Example
Buddy 1 on TeamSpeak "Oh man I wanna go to the store today and buy Titan Quest"
Buddy 2 on team speak "No dude don't! Save your money its total crap!"
Buddy 1 "Aww man really? I was really looking forward to an expansion and improvement to the genre"
Buddy 2 "Yeah me too .. but it is a turd!"
Buddy 1 "Ok man thanks for saving me $50 bucks...I will certainly let X number of people that also were looking forward to that game to stay away from it!! lets game up some [insert any legally owned game]!"
Buddy 2 "No problem man I have already told X number of people who were also disappointed... anyhow get ready to get owned!"
And thats how it works .. 1 download of a bad game does not equal one lost sale.. it is hundreds of lost sales..
The key word is BAD GAME.
Piracy is the crucible, that any game developer worth its salt must go through...
It keeps game developers honest... It fails to allow them to make crap games like Titan Quest..
I weep no tears for the failures of a gaming developer that makes mediocre drivel then requires me to waste 50 dollars on a total crap product..
Especially in todays economy where 50 dollars is half a tank of gas!
The Paradigm is changing people.. embrace it or die!
(speaking of that.. Why all the hoops to simply post on the forum???)
FlyinBrian
Distinguished
- Jan 26, 2008
- 7
- 0
- 18,510
Ethical Piracy ? there is no such thing, You can try to justify yourself all you want but you steal and regardless of the reason its ilegal and wrong. You think just because you pirate games and then buy them (which i find is often a lie) that everyone else out there pirating is going to buy the game too ? Unlikely, infact I would say they probably dont want to buy after playing the full game through, why would they ?
I have said this before but PC gamer developers are going to have to get some kind of key+ login service to stop pirating. Like Wow or the other MMO's. Yeh it will hurt the freedom of pc gaming in a sense, especially at lan parties where people can play on a lan without loging in. But when you start to complain about the extremes companies are going to have to make to stay competative, make sure you turn that finger and point at yourself.
I have said this before but PC gamer developers are going to have to get some kind of key+ login service to stop pirating. Like Wow or the other MMO's. Yeh it will hurt the freedom of pc gaming in a sense, especially at lan parties where people can play on a lan without loging in. But when you start to complain about the extremes companies are going to have to make to stay competative, make sure you turn that finger and point at yourself.
How ethical is it for companies to release games they know are unfinished and promise us the world and then we found out they are nothing but buggy pieces of garbage with which there is no refund. If you throw away 50-80 dollars a game for something that turns out to be **** what do you do? If companies would actually make decent games then they wouldnt have to worry about sales because they'd have a solid product people would want to buy. The fact that people download games for FREE and then erase them hours later because they are bad should be a sign that these companies arent doing a good job.
edit* The whole unethical piracy argument is really lame btw, are we supposed to just blindly give people our money and hope that ill want to play it for more than a day? Rather than actually make a good game and raise the standards for the industry they would rather blame someone else for their garbage.
FlyinBrian
Distinguished
- Jan 26, 2008
- 7
- 0
- 18,510
Because that company would have to either release a demo to prove their game or if they sale a terrible game not to support them in the future, its a problem that will take care of itself eventially if people stoped pirating. We have a lot of resources for game reviews from professional reviews that help finding if a game is a dud without pirating.
Of course there is such a thing..
I do not feel guilty for "stealing"... because I am not stealing anything..
I am simply thoroughly reviewing a product that demands my interest, participation, and time invested to be useful to me..
PC game developers need to start making excellent products.. instead of the constant stream of SCAT they produce... Just like Hollywood
You are so naive.. Even Wow is pirated and there are FREE servers populated with the poor addicted huddled masses.. Yet the game is still a massive money maker.. So dont be a fool.. People that want updates.. and want to be part of the community will purchase the game..
Case in point is Galactic Civilizations 2 by Stardock.
I downloaded that game, and gave it a thorough going over.. found some depth and strategy and replay in it and purchased it. Got updates and so forth.. and at the end of the day I don't feel like I was raped by a gaming company.
Far too many gaming companies are in it to make a quick buck.. they know their product SUCKS.. so naturally they will want to protect and shield it as much as they can so word of mouth does not get out about how awful the game is.
They make these games.. they don't update them.. they stop supporting them after a year.. and they are not worth the resources they came packaged in.
The companies that make a superior product be it a Single Player, MMO, MMORPG... etc.. do a few things correct.
They fill a niche... have an innovative package...are FUN
Fix BUGS fast! and support the games with new content and expanded aspects...regularly.
If they don't... their products will be found in those big boxes in Wallmart marked two for 10 bucks..
As I said..
Any game worth playing.. is a game worth paying for.
I will agree that to download a game you really love, and play all the time .. well that is stealing.
However it is a retarded way to treat products you really enjoy!
If you really enjoy a particular product.. You will naturally want to see more of said product.. improved upon and updated and expanded...
So you put your money there...
The more we force the gaming companies to remain competitive and produce good to exceptional products .. the better it is for them and the better it is for us.
You should take a look on the Torrent sites sometime...
There are not even 100 seeders for Titan quest.. there are not even 15 people currently downloading it...
And sure you will have people that will play and play the game ..and never buy it.. however you have alot of people that do buy it.. and also download it for ease of use, like another fellow said above regarding swaping CD's and so forth.
Even on the most currently popular game right now COD4 which has probably 2,000 seeders right now.. and perhaps a total download of 10,000.. since it has come out..
Most of those people have bought or will buy that game, as the Single player is good.. but the Multiplayer is what is REALLY good about it.. and that is what holds the resale of it.. and that is why the game will be played for YEARS to come..
Piracy is better for everyone in the end.. it separates the wheat from the chaff..
I do not feel guilty for "stealing"... because I am not stealing anything..
I am simply thoroughly reviewing a product that demands my interest, participation, and time invested to be useful to me..
PC game developers need to start making excellent products.. instead of the constant stream of SCAT they produce... Just like Hollywood
You are so naive.. Even Wow is pirated and there are FREE servers populated with the poor addicted huddled masses.. Yet the game is still a massive money maker.. So dont be a fool.. People that want updates.. and want to be part of the community will purchase the game..
Case in point is Galactic Civilizations 2 by Stardock.
I downloaded that game, and gave it a thorough going over.. found some depth and strategy and replay in it and purchased it. Got updates and so forth.. and at the end of the day I don't feel like I was raped by a gaming company.
Far too many gaming companies are in it to make a quick buck.. they know their product SUCKS.. so naturally they will want to protect and shield it as much as they can so word of mouth does not get out about how awful the game is.
They make these games.. they don't update them.. they stop supporting them after a year.. and they are not worth the resources they came packaged in.
The companies that make a superior product be it a Single Player, MMO, MMORPG... etc.. do a few things correct.
They fill a niche... have an innovative package...are FUN
Fix BUGS fast! and support the games with new content and expanded aspects...regularly.
If they don't... their products will be found in those big boxes in Wallmart marked two for 10 bucks..
As I said..
Any game worth playing.. is a game worth paying for.
I will agree that to download a game you really love, and play all the time .. well that is stealing.
However it is a retarded way to treat products you really enjoy!
If you really enjoy a particular product.. You will naturally want to see more of said product.. improved upon and updated and expanded...
So you put your money there...
The more we force the gaming companies to remain competitive and produce good to exceptional products .. the better it is for them and the better it is for us.
You should take a look on the Torrent sites sometime...
There are not even 100 seeders for Titan quest.. there are not even 15 people currently downloading it...
And sure you will have people that will play and play the game ..and never buy it.. however you have alot of people that do buy it.. and also download it for ease of use, like another fellow said above regarding swaping CD's and so forth.
Even on the most currently popular game right now COD4 which has probably 2,000 seeders right now.. and perhaps a total download of 10,000.. since it has come out..
Most of those people have bought or will buy that game, as the Single player is good.. but the Multiplayer is what is REALLY good about it.. and that is what holds the resale of it.. and that is why the game will be played for YEARS to come..
Piracy is better for everyone in the end.. it separates the wheat from the chaff..
first off, a lot of companies WONT release demos of their games, so there's really no way of gauging whether or not its worth the money aside from downloading the torrent, for PC games you dont have the option of renting, so you're left with only a couple choices,
1) if there even is a demo, play the short and limited demo
2) read a bunch of skewed review sites where the lowest rating is a 7
3) read the box and trust whatever the company tells you (just like FROM THE MAKERS OF DIABLO on Hellgate, that always works out well) or
4) pirate it and see if it sucks **** or not
every one of those choices aside from pirating it is biased in that whoever its coming from is trying to persuade you to purchase the game. companies may release demos that are lacking features, but they promise them in the full release (which they may not deliver anyway, ex yet again: hellgate london) the review websites are sponsored a lot of the time by game companies, or they get their ad revenue from them. just look at gamespot.com, most of the time their main page has a massive background image of some **** game that recently came out and the box is just going to lie to you to get you to buy the game.
when you pirate the game, youre basically determining, without anyone else's opinion trying to sway you, whether or not the game is any good and if it's worth $50. Just imagine trying to buy a car and the dealer telling you you cant test drive it but they promise it runs great...
LoL..
Pirating will never stop.. it is the very nature of what the internet is all about .. Free information!
The internet is more real and reflective of a genuine aspect of humanity then any economic system has ever come close to representing.
Sometimes a company puts out a really good Demo of the game.. Rome Total War was one that I can remember vividly as was Rainbow Six Raven shield.. (even had MP).. but most companies do not do that..
They give you 20 minutes.. they give you a game that feels limited.. but then you purchase it and find that the actual product is barely a notch beyond what the 'cheap' demo was... Sure there are also some really honest reviews out there.. but sometimes nothing is a substitute for a hands on experiance.
You are buying the bullcrap hype from mediocre producers of dribble that the limited aspect of pirating plays a huge role... it does not.
If a company sells a million units of a game.. are you going to tell me that a million people have downloaded it???
Put down the glue and take a breath of air.. if that many people were downloading games .. there would be a massive amount of seeders --as the more you seed.. the faster you can download! So there is a penalty for not sharing!!!.. If there were 500,000 units of Titan Quest sold.. and that is only representing 50% of the total units out there.. there would be 500,000 pirated versions out there.. if there were that many pirated versions out there (and the game was so awesome!!!) there would be at the minimum 30,000 seeders for it.. and Download speeds would be 2mbs+.. But there are not.. and why???
Cause the game is GARBAGE!
Lets also face the facts that our illusion of an economy is on the brink of collapse.... and people are forced to buy less useless stuff anyway.. you are naturally going to see shoddy producers fade off as the people decide to be more frugal with their entertainment money as their budgets keep getting tighter and tighter..
If it was not for piracy.. the whole thing might collapse even faster as there would be less standouts as there would be more waste.. so no one would prosper.
robwright
Distinguished
- Feb 16, 2006
- 1,129
- 7
- 19,285
How ethical is it? It's bad business if a developer/publisher releases a bad game, but do I consider, say, Ubisoft to be unethical because they release Assassin's Creed? Come on, this is a bad analogy. It's ridiculous, in fact. It sounds like the people that steal cable TV and because they say everything on TV is crap and not worth paying for. There are better and more ethical ways to exert your power as a consumer. If a developer made a bad game and you got burned on it, DON'T BUY ANOTHER ONE FROM THAT DEVELOPER. Or at the very least, don't buy it without playing the demo. And if all games are crap, then just stop playing them. So let's stop comparing a publisher releasing a bad game to a gamer illegally obtaining a product that he/she didn't pay for (also known as theft). One is illegal (at least here in the U.S.), and one is just bad business.
Also, to suggest that piracy is some sort of consumer-run quality control system for the PC game industry is outrageous. Call of Duty 4 is one of the highest rated games of 2007 and won several Game of the Year awards, yet Infinity Ward says the number of cracked copies running on mutliplayer servers is astonishing. So did Infinity Ward not do a good job? Is CoD 4 a bad game? Come on, let's stop fooling ourselves. Good games, bad games, average games -- it doesn't matter, they all get pirated.
If I only could rent PC games then i would really be able to try them out and decide whether its worth it.
I havent pirated a game for 8 years, because there is so much crap out there now that pirating is a waste of time. I wait for somebody that has the same tastes as i do to tell me after they bought it/pirated it, whether it was worth the bucks. This alone stopped me from buying Quakes Wars, Crysis, etc and made me buy Neverwinter nights 2, Bioshock, Sins of the solar empire etc.
When i go into a local ebgames and I see what the average console user buys, i think their habit is akin to gambling....lot of crap products.
Again, open PC rental stores. And no a demo is just like a test drive for a car, the real problems happen later 😛
I havent pirated a game for 8 years, because there is so much crap out there now that pirating is a waste of time. I wait for somebody that has the same tastes as i do to tell me after they bought it/pirated it, whether it was worth the bucks. This alone stopped me from buying Quakes Wars, Crysis, etc and made me buy Neverwinter nights 2, Bioshock, Sins of the solar empire etc.
When i go into a local ebgames and I see what the average console user buys, i think their habit is akin to gambling....lot of crap products.
Again, open PC rental stores. And no a demo is just like a test drive for a car, the real problems happen later 😛
Outrageous???
Infinity ward needs to run their key checks better.. And you need to stop enabling them to be lazy...(as lazy developers kill games way faster and more thoroughly then a billion pirates could)
For example.. the Game Solder of Fortune 2.. I played that game online and competitively for a few years...
At its peak there were almost 60,000+ servers and many hundreds of thousands of players..
When people's PB GUID was checked and found to be a duplicate --ie a crack.. they were banned from the game.
PB even goes so far to Hardware ban players who actively cheat on the game. Sure there are ways around it.. yet it is a giant hassle.
What Killed SOF2 besides it getting old is that Raven did not support the game past 1.03.. no new content.. very difficult game to upload maps with, etc..
And gradually the game fizzled out.. The community put up years of protest to make a new version or at the very least update it.
Finally Activsion being greedy decided to hand development to a budget producer for SOF3.. which was so horrid no one even bothered to pirate it... and now the game is totally DEAD..
So back to COD4.. sure there will be people who are playing cracked versions of the game.. however they will most likely be banned one day en masse.. IF Infinity Ward continues to develop content for the game like they should every few months or so.. it would be very easy to enable measures that would make it far to much of a hassle for anyone to bother playing such a highly rated game illegally.
And for the record.. I have not downloaded a game in about 2 years.. as there have been NONE out there that I have simply had to have.
What I find hysterical is your limited knowledge on how this stuff works, cracks will not get you onto a game.. and I have serious doubts about people running 'cracked' versions on servers.. IF people are.. it should be relatively easy to fix.. as BF2 had tons of cracks.. another highly rated game.. yet there was not a single cracked verson of it that would play online.
For that you need a VALID CD Key.. Yes there are Key Gens out there .. and YES they will let you play the game.. but no.. you had better not connect or try to connect to a multiplayer server .. or POOF you have just ruined the key, and you could very well get a hardware ban,
I personally think game companies are using the whole piracy issue as a scape goat to explain away just a simply sagging economy on all sectors....As more people are aware of it for the simple fact of how many are experienced with downloading music.. yet for games the numbers are not there for it to make an impact on a solid release, as all it will do is make more people buy the game because more people will be playing it and telling others how good it is .. etc..
Same with the bad games..
Which is why my observed educated statement stands... and your antiquated endangered species view does not.
I would wager that during the heyday of the economy when everyone was using Napster .. literally tens to hundreds of millions of people downloading everything.. even house wives.. there was virtually no peep from these companies... only whiny arse Lars Ulrich, destroying was little respect was left for Metallica and ultimately sending them to the garbage bin..
Then you have guys like Trent Reznor .. who have been around almost as long.. waking up to the concept.. and literally giving away his albums... for free or what ever you feel you want to pay for them..
That is the future for music...
As for gaming it probably will not go that far as anyone who has been playing video games like you and I have for all of our lives will tell you..
We just want quality... and we will pay for it!...
Seriously its time to awaken to the new paradigm...
Infinity ward needs to run their key checks better.. And you need to stop enabling them to be lazy...(as lazy developers kill games way faster and more thoroughly then a billion pirates could)
For example.. the Game Solder of Fortune 2.. I played that game online and competitively for a few years...
At its peak there were almost 60,000+ servers and many hundreds of thousands of players..
When people's PB GUID was checked and found to be a duplicate --ie a crack.. they were banned from the game.
PB even goes so far to Hardware ban players who actively cheat on the game. Sure there are ways around it.. yet it is a giant hassle.
What Killed SOF2 besides it getting old is that Raven did not support the game past 1.03.. no new content.. very difficult game to upload maps with, etc..
And gradually the game fizzled out.. The community put up years of protest to make a new version or at the very least update it.
Finally Activsion being greedy decided to hand development to a budget producer for SOF3.. which was so horrid no one even bothered to pirate it... and now the game is totally DEAD..
So back to COD4.. sure there will be people who are playing cracked versions of the game.. however they will most likely be banned one day en masse.. IF Infinity Ward continues to develop content for the game like they should every few months or so.. it would be very easy to enable measures that would make it far to much of a hassle for anyone to bother playing such a highly rated game illegally.
And for the record.. I have not downloaded a game in about 2 years.. as there have been NONE out there that I have simply had to have.
What I find hysterical is your limited knowledge on how this stuff works, cracks will not get you onto a game.. and I have serious doubts about people running 'cracked' versions on servers.. IF people are.. it should be relatively easy to fix.. as BF2 had tons of cracks.. another highly rated game.. yet there was not a single cracked verson of it that would play online.
For that you need a VALID CD Key.. Yes there are Key Gens out there .. and YES they will let you play the game.. but no.. you had better not connect or try to connect to a multiplayer server .. or POOF you have just ruined the key, and you could very well get a hardware ban,
I personally think game companies are using the whole piracy issue as a scape goat to explain away just a simply sagging economy on all sectors....As more people are aware of it for the simple fact of how many are experienced with downloading music.. yet for games the numbers are not there for it to make an impact on a solid release, as all it will do is make more people buy the game because more people will be playing it and telling others how good it is .. etc..
Same with the bad games..
Which is why my observed educated statement stands... and your antiquated endangered species view does not.
I would wager that during the heyday of the economy when everyone was using Napster .. literally tens to hundreds of millions of people downloading everything.. even house wives.. there was virtually no peep from these companies... only whiny arse Lars Ulrich, destroying was little respect was left for Metallica and ultimately sending them to the garbage bin..
Then you have guys like Trent Reznor .. who have been around almost as long.. waking up to the concept.. and literally giving away his albums... for free or what ever you feel you want to pay for them..
That is the future for music...
As for gaming it probably will not go that far as anyone who has been playing video games like you and I have for all of our lives will tell you..
We just want quality... and we will pay for it!...
Seriously its time to awaken to the new paradigm...
Torrents are a PC rental store...
And if people are ethical in their walk of life like I am and all of the people I surround myself with..
They will download it .. evaluate and then buy it or delete it...
That simple.
If gaming companies wanted to allow people to Download the game for week trial with a special CD Key.. (yet fast speeds) for a small fee tacked onto the price of the game.. I am sure that would work too
Look at EVE Online..
Fighting this trend is like fighting the Tide..
And blaming people for pirating .. is like blaming peace protesters for the war...
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
-
Discussion What's your favourite video game you've been playing?- Started by amdfangirl
- Replies: 4K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram