Question Seeking opinion on two different case sizes/ coolers

Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
Im looking to top mount an aio cooler that works well enough to keep an i5 12600k cpu as cool as possible. the two cases in question are the corsair 4000d high airflow and the corsair 5000d high airflow. I am wanting to know what cooler will fit into the case and also not overlap the ram slots/sticks. I'd prefer to get the smaller case if there's a compatible sized cooler. if not i am open to getting a bigger cooler for the bigger case. it is critical to me that the cooler is able to keep the temperature on the lower side of the acceptable range while under full usage. Thanks in advance for any input.
 

woot

Distinguished
Jun 2, 2009
317
27
19,040
55
The 4000D supports a 240mm or 280mm radiator on the top, i do believe it should be more than enough to keep a 12600k nice and cool, however a good tower air cooler can also easily keep a 12600k cool, so water cooling is not absolutely necessary unless your into overclocking.
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
The 4000D supports a 240mm or 280mm radiator on the top, i do believe it should be more than enough to keep a 12600k nice and cool, however a good tower air cooler can also easily keep a 12600k cool, so water cooling is not absolutely necessary unless your into overclocking.
The 4000D supports a 240mm or 280mm radiator on the top, i do believe it should be more than enough to keep a 12600k nice and cool, however a good tower air cooler can also easily keep a 12600k cool, so water cooling is not absolutely necessary unless your into overclocking.

Thank you for the fast reply. Would you recommend any aios in particular I was looking at the arctic freezer ii 240 but am worried about the thickness of the radiator.
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
Then you front mount an AIO/CLC > directly cooled by room ambient > lowest possible thermals for the cpu cores.
Top mount doesn't do that.
Thank you for the insight. wouldnt that push hot air into the other components? sorry for the confusion I was meaning as cool as possible while still top mounted so the hot air doesnt get pushed into the other parts.
 

Phaaze88

Titan
Ambassador
Thank you for the insight. wouldnt that push hot air into the other components? sorry for the confusion I was meaning as cool as possible while still top mounted so the hot air doesnt get pushed into the other parts.
Umm, then what do you think is happening with top mounted AIO/CLC? The hot air from everything below it is going into it...
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
Umm, then what do you think is happening with top mounted AIO/CLC? The hot air from everything below it is going into it...
Sorry Im confused and am very inexperienced.
I was referring to the heat from the cpu being pushed into and heating up the other components (GPU) not the other components heating the cpu since with a top mounted radiator the cpus heat would just vent out the top without getting blown through everything else

I understand that youll get lower cpu temps with it front mounted but at the same time that would heat up the other components like your gpu would it not?
 

Phaaze88

Titan
Ambassador
I was referring to the heat from the cpu being pushed into and heating up the other components (GPU) not the other components heating the cpu since with a top mounted radiator the cpus heat would just vent out the top without getting blown through everything else

I understand that youll get lower cpu temps with it front mounted but at the same time that would heat up the other components like your gpu would it not?
1)That's typically nothing compared to what some of the current gpus scatter inside the PC, warming up everything around them.
2)That's not all that happens with top mount. The fluid soaks more heat and takes longer to cool down.
Majority of gpu coolers scatter their waste heat everywhere inside the PC in either config. The gpu coolers that don't do this are blower, gpu AIO/CLC and custom loop.


It depends on what the hardware is and how you use it.
Games: top mount is less efficient in most cases.
Productivity: can go either way. Depending on whether the application heavily uses cpu/gpu.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
To start with, throw out the assumption of 'as cool as possible', that doesn't apply, especially to liquid cooling. An intel cpu running at 70°C is identical performance to that same cpu running at 30°C. The cpu simply does not care about temps below a certain threshold. So it really doesn't matter if you game at 60°C or at 50°C, it's the same thing to the cpu, the only difference is one of your own making.

Liquid cooling isn't about getting the lowest possible temps, it's all about temp management. Aircoolers are the opposite, their cooling efficiency is based entirely on temps, the hotter the temp, the less efficient the heatsink becomes, so when approaching saturation temps get out of hand very quickly with only small changes to wattage.

Liquid absorbs the wattage from the cpu, dissipates it at the rad. Has very little affect on the fluid temp or ability, taking roughly 30minutes to acclimate to the load. That means efficiency doesn't change much, or at all, with sudden changes the way it can with air coolers. So whereas an aircooler might allow a cpu to go from 55° to 70° with a sudden influx of need during a game, a liquid cooler sitting at 60° might go to 63° instead.

An aircooler is similar to a top mount AIO in that it's ambient air is not outside temps, but the temps inside the case itself. A distinct disadvantage with oversized gpus dumping a ton of heat into the case. The difference there is that a radiator has multiple times the surface area of any aircooler, so is effectively less affected by that case air and consequently has a smaller deviation in cpu temps with load changes, higher capacity, higher efficiency.

Location of the rad isn't that important. What's really important is the balance of airflow. A rad by its very nature is airflow restrictive, so anything on the backside will feel that loss of airflow. A front mounted AIO will get you lower cpu temps as outside case air is the ambient air through the rad. The byproduct of that is higher gpu temps since warmer air is shoved at the gpu by the fans in pull or restricted by fans in push. Top mounted AIO will see a warmer cpu range, but that byproduct is lower gpu temps since the intake fans are pushing cooler outside ambient air directly to the gpu.

So you'd be far better off with a cpu at 60°C and a gpu at 80°C in top mount, than a cpu at 50°C and a gpu throttling at 83°C with a front mount. Having the coldest running cpu is not always a benefit.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Dark Lord of Tech

Phaaze88

Titan
Ambassador
Perhaps with an Intel cpu, as those don't care at all how hot they run, except for the throttle limit.
Every other modern cpu and gpu does care about temperatures, as they dynamically adjust their boost clocks based on thermals, power, load, etc.
For folks who have Ryzen + Radeon/Geforce, they'll have to pick their poison.

"Liquid absorbs the wattage from the cpu, dissipates it at the rad." Sure, but all of it doesn't leave right away. It takes multiple laps for that to happen, and with heat from other devices inside the PC passing up through the radiator, more laps are needed.
That's why folks with certain big ass gpus + top AIO/CLC can still end up with 80C+ temperatures across some cores in games even though the cpu has drawn at most 100w with a few cores active.

Top AIO/CLC and tower air are much of the same, save for a certain... 'habit'.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Sure, but all of it doesn't leave right away. It takes multiple laps for that to happen,
It never leaves. That's the thing. There is no travel as such, there's 100w in the entire loop at all times. It's why full loops placement doesn't matter, block before rad or after.

The fact the cpu is hitting 80° is more to do with the load and power use, if you are hitting 100w on just a few cores active, that's a tremendous amount of power per core, even a 12900k only hits 250w ish for 8 P-cores. That Ryzen would be seeing 24A on each of 3 cores vrs the 12900k seeing 22A on every P core, voltage being 1.4v. If voltage was lower, Amperage would be higher still.

So yes, you'll see 80°C, as hottest core if pulling that kind of power per core, the same load spread over 6 or 8 cores and pulling 100w would see temps considerably lower. Power use per core is going to set the temp for the core, not total wattage for the entire cpu. With Ryzen Master, giving an average of temps for the entire cpu, 3 active cores at 80° and 3 relatively inactive cores at 40° will give a cpu temp of 60° for that 100w load.
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
1)That's typically nothing compared to what some of the current gpus scatter inside the PC, warming up everything around them.
2)That's not all that happens with top mount. The fluid soaks more heat and takes longer to cool down.
Majority of gpu coolers scatter their waste heat everywhere inside the PC in either config. The gpu coolers that don't do this are blower, gpu AIO/CLC and custom loop.


It depends on what the hardware is and how you use it.
Games: top mount is less efficient in most cases.
Productivity: can go either way. Depending on whether the application heavily uses cpu/gpu.
Great to know thank you so much, looks like the asus tuf 3080 I bought will just dump all of its heat into the case since its just a fan style gpu. Hopefully the case would fit the radiator while front mounted since the gpu is so big. Do you recommend any specific model of aio?
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
So you'd be far better off with a cpu at 60°C and a gpu at 80°C in top mount, than a cpu at 50°C and a gpu throttling at 83°C with a front mount. Having the coldest running cpu is not always a benefit.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much for the insight. hopefully Ill be able to fit to radiator at both positions to see which runs better since I bought a large asus tuf 3080. I would really appreciate any recommendations on what aio to buy to pair with the 12600k and corsair 4000d case.
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
So yes, you'll see 80°C, as hottest core if pulling that kind of power per core, the same load spread over 6 or 8 cores and pulling 100w would see temps considerably lower. Power use per core is going to set the temp for the core, not total wattage for the entire cpu. With Ryzen Master, giving an average of temps for the entire cpu, 3 active cores at 80° and 3 relatively inactive cores at 40° will give a cpu temp of 60° for that 100w load.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Is there a way to make sure that the load is spread over as many cores as possible to keep the heat down?
 

Phaaze88

Titan
Ambassador
My examples were bad compared to Karadjgne.
This whole thing gets discussed to death and back, and is over-exaggerated sometimes. I still talk about it as I have experimented with different fan and cooler configurations.
[I am biased in favor of gpu AIO/CLC and gpu custom loop as they take what's by far(usually) the biggest heating element in the PC and provide the option to be set up to dump the gpu's waste heat directly outside the PC. I haven't seen top cpu liquid cooling setups favorably since.
That's just a me problem though.]

Do you recommend any specific model of aio?
Well, you're not missing much between all the different options...
-Aesthetics. That's a personal thing.
-Software. For 2 brands, NZXT & Corsair, their own software must be used, which you'll either love/neutral/hate it. For others brands that have software available to use, it's optional.
-Fans and you. The performance seen will be decided by the relationship between the fans and your ears: your personal fan curves.

You have an Intel cpu, which doesn't care how hot it operates - excluding the thermal limit, of course - so mount the radiator wherever you want.
Arctic's Liquid Freezer II
Fractal Design Celsius+ Prisma or Dynamic
EK-AIO
Those are a few suggestions. Avoid Msi MAG/MPG Coreliquid, and Fractal Design Lumen. They have issues with dirty coolant causing early clogging, and the pump in radiator design wouldn't really allow for a top radiator mount.
 
Reactions: Dark Lord of Tech
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
Arctic's Liquid Freezer II
Fractal Design Celsius+ Prisma or Dynamic
EK-AIO
Those are a few suggestions

Awesome I was actually wanting the Arctic freezer ii 240 but am concerned about the thickness of the radiator and fans blocking the ram slots or sticks when top mounted or potentially the gpu when on front mounted. Ill look into your other suggestions aswell thanks

Wouldve got the evga ftw3 3080 hybrid gpu instead but sadly its out of stock and much more expensive
 
Last edited:

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
No issues with the Arctic and fitment. The EK and Arctic are the best on the market currently, but the Celcius is really hard to beat in its simplicity. Many aios, especially rgb versions are nothing but a mess of wiring to deal with, extra gimmicks like OLED displays nobody looks at twice etc.

That and after recent events, both Arctic and Fractal have really shown their true colors, and it's all about customer care. I've been a fan of both companies for ever it seems, and for them to do what they did only cements my opinion. You not do wrong with any of them. And yes, I like Corsair too, but being a pro builder in another life, I got to deal with them regularly, not absorbing bs from the occasional YouTube or forum post, so my viewpoint can often be different from the general public.
 
Last edited:
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
EVGA recently announced that they're bouncing out of Nvidia gpus. That model and the independent kit are not coming back

Oh really, I'm glad I didnt get that or the other evga card I was looking at then
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Buying Evga isn't really a concern. They have plenty held back for warranty purposes and aren't going anywhere. They just won't be partnered with nvidia anymore. Doesn't affect the fact they are good cards and have excellent backing. Once the warranty runs out, it's no different to any other gpu, you are on your own.
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
Buying Evga isn't really a concern. They have plenty held back for warranty purposes and aren't going anywhere. They just won't be partnered with nvidia anymore. Doesn't affect the fact they are good cards and have excellent backing. Once the warranty runs out, it's no different to any other gpu, you are on your own.

Oh good to know. they have really good reliable psu's right? I've seen some platinum rated ones for a good price
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
Buying Evga isn't really a concern. They have plenty held back for warranty purposes and aren't going anywhere. They just won't be partnered with nvidia anymore. Doesn't affect the fact they are good cards and have excellent backing. Once the warranty runs out, it's no different to any other gpu, you are on your own.


I was wondering if you can set ram to a lower speed? I bought some 3600mhz ram to pair with the build I'm trying to make, but I later found out that the 12600k cpu only supports up to 3200mhz ddr4 ram without overclocking.

Also I would really appreciate any advice on my full build specs to make sure there are no issues.
if there are, any recommendations would be great, I dont plan on overclocking but bought the k variant of the 12600 for the extra cores.

(Have only already bought CPU, GPU and RAM)
Case: Corsair 4000d airflow
CPU: i5 12600k
CPU cooler: Arctic liquid freezer ii 240 argb
Motherboard: MSI MAG b660 tomahawk ddr4 with wifi
RAM: 32gb (2x16gb)Corsair vengeance rgb pro SL 3600mhz (might return if needed)
GPU: Asus tuf gaming 3080 oc v2
PSU: Evga supernova P3
SSD: Samsung 980 pro (heatsink model since its the only one on sale)

Would running 32gb of 3200mhz ram potentially bottleneck the other components? if so I would consider spending some extra money to get the ddr5 version of the motherboard and ram
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
Yep. If you look at cpu-z, it'll have the jadec tables listed for many of the more popular sizes. But those will be by manual choice, not XMP settings, which most ram only has a single XMP profile choice.

Your ram default is 2133MHz. It'll default to whatever the cpu specifies, so could be 2133 or 2400 or upto 3200MHz, cpu depending. Setting XMP will OC the ram above the default cpu, to 3600MHz. But you can change that to 3200MHz or 3433MHz or 2400MHz if you wished.
 
Sep 12, 2022
14
0
10
0
Yep. If you look at cpu-z, it'll have the jadec tables listed for many of the more popular sizes. But those will be by manual choice, not XMP settings, which most ram only has a single XMP profile choice.

Your ram default is 2133MHz. It'll default to whatever the cpu specifies, so could be 2133 or 2400 or upto 3200MHz, cpu depending. Setting XMP will OC the ram above the default cpu, to 3600MHz. But you can change that to 3200MHz or 3433MHz or 2400MHz if you wished.




Awesome thank you so much, I shouldnt have to return the ram I bought then. Do you find ddr5 ram/mobos to be worth the extra cost at this point in time?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS