shift in the industry?

[Aziboah]

IT seems that many of the new high end cards come with an exhaust system ( fan blows out a PCI slot ) heat sink fan, other then the standard fan/heatsink. DO you think this will become a new standard with video cards?

 

[sirak]

NVidia has taken a lot of flak for having those loud fans in some of their 5000 series ultra cards. I'd imagine ATI and NVidia are steering cleer of those if at all possible.

 

[pauldh]

"the new standard"

Thankfully, NO.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Actually indeed it IS VERY likely that that will be the way. As much as ATI wants to stay away from that solution, they and Intel have both stated (in their BTX release) that the new PCI-EX cards will likely need to send hot air out of the system. The new CPUs and VPUs are going to produce MASSIVE amounts of heat. And while the AMD64FX is about 70% the heat production of the ~150W P4 3.4ghz EE (the 3.2 is about 115W), it will produce alot of heat. And so will the new PCI-EX enable monster VPUs (no thermal ratings on them yet , because VERY little info out there, heck little thermal info out there for OLD VPUs [AMD publishes their Thermal info, that is why it's commonly out there for CPUs & Intel only does it for products they think have direct competition and concerns]) In that environment it will be necessary to get cold air into the VPU/Memory and then hot air out. I'm sure both ATI and nV are doing all they can, but even they have stated that it will be tough. Look at the XT, it's already heading to a flow-esque solution.
Expect the R42X and NV40 to have the coolers on them similar to the FX5950U (not the FX5800U thankfully).

Now one can hope that the LOW-K 0.13 process for the R42X will allow it to use an R9800XT style cooling, and that would make sense with the type of cooling used by the R9600Pro/XT. The thing is they would likely 'underclock' the card to achieve that and therefore moders may see the same benifit of the R9600s in overclocking.

Anywhoo, this is all conjecture beyond the fact that ATI and Intel said that future PCI-EX solutions will draw alot of power and generate alot of heat which will need to be removed from the case. If we're lucky the new form factor with do the job without the leaf-blowers.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[dhlucke]

Nvidia said, when the 5800 Ultra, that this was the way they were going to go. They feel that this new design is innovative. I'm sure nobody wants the noise but back then they said that was normal and that die hard gamers won't mind.

They're probably half right. The noise is unacceptable, but if they have to use a PCI slot to exhaust the heat then I would expect them to do so.

Nvidia has struggled as of late so we'll see what they do, and ATI does, with the next release.

_________________________________________
<font color=red><b>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS</font color=blue> <font color=red>AMERICA</font color=red></b>

 

[Crashman]

The real problem is motherboard companies offering 5 PCI slots with AGP in the 6th up position. That means the top PCI slot is useless. When the mount the AGP slot in the TOP position and the PCI slots in the Bottom 5, at least you have use of all 5 (even if there are 6, you can use the bottom 5).

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[pauldh]

Man is that lousy news to hear. Hopefully nothing like the design of the 5800U.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah I wouldn't think so, but I too was very dissapointed to hear that. Like I told people here when I posted the link, it really does make one think hard about liquid cooling. We'll have to see exactly how bad it is when they come out. Theoretically these cards should require LESS, cooling, the only thing is that they are pushed to their max.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[Vimp]

They could start making Videocards that used up 2 PCI slots along with the AGP or PCI-EX and it wouldn't bother me in the least. As it is I can only think of two things I would ever use that require PCI slots. Sound Card and Network card. So with 5 PCI slots I'd still have 1 free if the videocards started taking up 2 PCI slots. Not that that would ever happen but just saying how little I care about how many slots a videocard takes up.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

It would matter to people who like SFF boxes, but considering most of us think that the SFF doesn't usually come with a powersupply worthy of that type of card I don't see it posiin a problem. Even for the Mini fans, they usually have 3 PCI slots, and then you still have room for 2 (gotta have a good Audio card, and then whatever [prefer onboard networking personally])

I'm not worried, whatever the requirements we'll find our way to getting one in our boxes.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[kinney]

That makes for an interesting thought on what OEMs are going to do if that kind of heat and noise are the future of GPUs and CPUs.
Dell certainly cant have that kind of heat or noise.. the only thing I can think of them doing is running flexible pipes directly off of the CPU/GPU to a 120mm exhaust fan on the back of the case.
I've seen that design for quiet PCs and might be a Gateway/Dell implementation already.

Otherwise I suppose there might be a growing market for less performance improvements. At least not any performance improvements at the cost of noise or heat.
I am no engineer but I think that technology will fix these problems somehow. The company who engineers the revolutionary technology (if its not already out) will be rich, beyatch!

Sorry had to throw in my Dave Chappelle immitation there.

----
Yeah, thats right. I support the NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Well there will likely be something. But right now I can't tell what it would be. Heat-pipes seems like a good answer, but that doesn't help for PCs that are on for long stretches at a time. I have a feeling that Case design wil play a more important role than ever, and what Overclockers currently use for quiet cooling (large quiet fans, blowholes, etc.) will enter the mainstream. I see the return of the Cube (which I like as a design), but who knows. Could be way off base, perhaps phase-change cooling will become cheap and effective.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[phial]

well, think about how things have progressed


video cards are basically little computers within themselves. they got a cpu, ram, memory controllers, high clock frequencies and memory capacities too. they only lack a hard drive

a 9800pro probably has wayyyy more computational power than say, a P3 600 (specialized power of course) and comes with more ram than systems had back then for the entire box. not to mention that top end video cards have more transistors... and all that power is packed on a agp card.. thats alot of concentrated heat


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dhlucke - "Phew...ok my wrists are hurting. I'm taking a break."