Short File Name Anomaly

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

I used to backup my Windows Me system using tar/gzip from linux, to CDs. About
a year ago this failed to restore to workability, when I upgraded Norton
Internet Security to 2004. In another newsgroup I read about the short filename
anomalies, where Windows does unexpected things to short file names. I used the
linux partimage program to make backups of my bootable partition.

A few weeks ago I upgraded Norton again, to 2005, and found a tar/gzip backup
failed to restore properly. Again, only Norton IS had a problem I could see,
but I didn't look much farther.

I went looking at my C: drive from the dos prompt, and noticed something strange
in the PROGRA~1 folder. There was only one Norton Internet Security folder
there, but its' short filename was NORTON~2!!! This was on the C: partition I
had upgraded NIS to 2005 on - incidentally, only a little bit messy, no real
major problems - but I would hate to try to explain it step by step. When
things get screwy, reboot.

I checked my restored C: partition, and found I had a NORTON~1 folder with a
long name of Norton Internet Security. And no Norton Anti Virus. So I renamed
the NORTON~1 Norton Internet Security to NORTON~2 Norton Internet Security,
reboot, and everything seemed fine, back to identical with the original C:
partition!

The first way I tried was to copy the NORTON~1 folder directory to another
folder, add a '1' to the long name, and copy it back. That worked, but I was
thinking that maybe someday Symantec will figure it out too, and change
something. I found that every time I changed the lfn (Long filename) with
Windows Explorer, the sfn (short filename) suffix would either increment or
decrement. So I changed the lfn three times, on the last time back to a lfn of
Norton Internet Security, and that gave me a sfn of NORTON~2.

I'm not regularly using the restored C: partition yet, I don't like the way
tar/gzip or the kernel loses my file creation dates. I don't imagine I'm the
only one who has ever played with filenames in this context, and would really
like to hear from others, before tenatively commiting to using this little
tweak.

What do you think?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

"Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:

>I used to backup my Windows Me system using tar/gzip from linux, to CDs. About
>a year ago this failed to restore to workability, when I upgraded Norton
>Internet Security to 2004. In another newsgroup I read about the short filename
>anomalies, where Windows does unexpected things to short file names. I used the
>linux partimage program to make backups of my bootable partition.
>

The only short file name anomaly that I am aware of is with XCOPY,
which copies long file names only. Short file names are regenerated
after the copy, which can cause discrepancies.

I would suspect that something similar is happening with your backup &
restore utilities, and it is these that are the underlying cause of
the problem, not Windows.

In order to work properly it is necessary for these backup and restore
utilities to copy and preserve both the long and the short names for
all files and folders.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Ron:

Is it possible that "XXCOPY" may be of help?
It can be downloaded on the internet.

Harry.


"Ron Martell" <ron.martell@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0fjug1dnv0bvvbdf7k9cjdbk2mfsoucncv@4ax.com...
> "Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:
>
> >I used to backup my Windows Me system using tar/gzip from linux, to CDs.
About
> >a year ago this failed to restore to workability, when I upgraded Norton
> >Internet Security to 2004. In another newsgroup I read about the short
filename
> >anomalies, where Windows does unexpected things to short file names. I
used the
> >linux partimage program to make backups of my bootable partition.
> >
>
> The only short file name anomaly that I am aware of is with XCOPY,
> which copies long file names only. Short file names are regenerated
> after the copy, which can cause discrepancies.
>
> I would suspect that something similar is happening with your backup &
> restore utilities, and it is these that are the underlying cause of
> the problem, not Windows.
>
> In order to work properly it is necessary for these backup and restore
> utilities to copy and preserve both the long and the short names for
> all files and folders.
>
> Good luck
>
> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
> --
> Microsoft MVP
> On-Line Help Computer Service
> http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
>
> In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
> http://aumha.org/alex.htm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

I think xxcopy does preserve the correspondence, but it doesn't do any
compression.


"webster72n" <hbethke@copper.net> wrote in message
news:%23dlxxZmqFHA.1252@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>
> Ron:
>
> Is it possible that "XXCOPY" may be of help?
> It can be downloaded on the internet.
>
> Harry.
>
>
> "Ron Martell" <ron.martell@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:0fjug1dnv0bvvbdf7k9cjdbk2mfsoucncv@4ax.com...
> > "Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I used to backup my Windows Me system using tar/gzip from linux, to CDs.
> About
> > >a year ago this failed to restore to workability, when I upgraded Norton
> > >Internet Security to 2004. In another newsgroup I read about the short
> filename
> > >anomalies, where Windows does unexpected things to short file names. I
> used the
> > >linux partimage program to make backups of my bootable partition.
> > >
> >
> > The only short file name anomaly that I am aware of is with XCOPY,
> > which copies long file names only. Short file names are regenerated
> > after the copy, which can cause discrepancies.
> >
> > I would suspect that something similar is happening with your backup &
> > restore utilities, and it is these that are the underlying cause of
> > the problem, not Windows.
> >
> > In order to work properly it is necessary for these backup and restore
> > utilities to copy and preserve both the long and the short names for
> > all files and folders.
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> > Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
> > --
> > Microsoft MVP
> > On-Line Help Computer Service
> > http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
> >
> > In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
> > http://aumha.org/alex.htm
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Ron Martell wrote:
>
>
> The only short file name anomaly that I am aware of is with XCOPY,
> which copies long file names only. Short file names are regenerated
> after the copy, which can cause discrepancies.

um... what ?


Rick

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

"Ron Martell" <ron.martell@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0fjug1dnv0bvvbdf7k9cjdbk2mfsoucncv@4ax.com...
> "Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:
>
> >I used to backup my Windows Me system using tar/gzip from linux, to CDs.
About
> >a year ago this failed to restore to workability, when I upgraded Norton
> >Internet Security to 2004. In another newsgroup I read about the short
filename
> >anomalies, where Windows does unexpected things to short file names. I used
the
> >linux partimage program to make backups of my bootable partition.
> >
>
> The only short file name anomaly that I am aware of is with XCOPY,
> which copies long file names only. Short file names are regenerated
> after the copy, which can cause discrepancies.
>
> I would suspect that something similar is happening with your backup &
> restore utilities, and it is these that are the underlying cause of
> the problem, not Windows.

Thanks for the notice, Ron. A Google search for 'short filename' produces a lot
of hits, but not much towards a resolution.

The same thing happens during Windows Explorer file copies. I'm not familiar
with the WinMe resources, but when there is only one third party program which
copes successfully with the matter ( xxcopy32 ), I tend towards the obvious
hypothesis.

> In order to work properly it is necessary for these backup and restore
> utilities to copy and preserve both the long and the short names for
> all files and folders.

Fortunately I have three primary partitions to use. In one case, I installed a
rudimentary WinMe, with WinZip, and used it to zip my usual C: to a partition in
the extendeds. Then, of course, I unzipped it to the third primary partition,
set that active and rebooted. I got much the same result as when I used
tar/gzip, Norton AntiVirus gone. The obvious next step is to make another zip
of my working C:, unzip it to the third primary partition, and rename it three
times as outlined in my original post on this. At least with WinZip I can hope
to preserve the creation dates!

I haven't seen anything but xxcopy32 that preserves both the long and short
filenames, and of course, it doesn't do compression. I suppose that if any of
the backup/restore utilities available for Windows preserved both file names
they would trumpet it to the high heavens! I wouldn't be too surprised if the
Linux folk don't beat them to it. I use the System Rescue CD that was available
a year ago, something might already be available.

In the mean time, two further recourses suggest themselves. There were some
utilities which backed up the long file names, vs the short ones, I suppose.
Tried one once, but it didn't work as anticipated, probably my own fault.

The second is to do a list of the entire drive, immediately before backing it
up, to a file from the dos prompt, 'dir /s /o:a > e:\filename .txt' or something
not too far off. Then, soon as the backup is restored, same thing on it to
another file name. I find it easier to figure this stuff if the directories are
sorted alphabetically, although I suppose they should be in the same order after
the restore, using WinZip.

Then it should be possible to at least find whatever discrepancies may exist
between the two directories, and change the restored partition to match the
original. Sounds like a job for Visual Basic to me.

Of course I must have been joking when I suggested Symantec 'screwed up' by
getting an out of order short filename for the Norton Internet Security folder
in the C:\Program Files directory. I'm entirely certain there must be a good
reason for doing so.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

"Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:


>Of course I must have been joking when I suggested Symantec 'screwed up' by
>getting an out of order short filename for the Norton Internet Security folder
>in the C:\Program Files directory. I'm entirely certain there must be a good
>reason for doing so.
>

The words "Symantec" and "screwed up" are synonyms.

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca

In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
http://aumha.org/alex.htm

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

LOL!
--
Noel

"Ron Martell" <ron.martell@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d561h1tp0k8c69dq7nkk1pu4k2s50cer99@4ax.com...
> "Dale Benjamin" <daleb@k-online.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Of course I must have been joking when I suggested Symantec 'screwed up'
>>by
>>getting an out of order short filename for the Norton Internet Security
>>folder
>>in the C:\Program Files directory. I'm entirely certain there must be a
>>good
>>reason for doing so.
>>
>
> The words "Symantec" and "screwed up" are synonyms.
>
> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
> --
> Microsoft MVP
> On-Line Help Computer Service
> http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
>
> In memory of a dear friend Alex Nichol MVP
> http://aumha.org/alex.htm