Should I get the FX-8350, or wait for the upcoming "Zen" processors?

[atariman72]

I have been planning an AMD based PC for gaming for quite a while now, and have put considerable thought into it. I intend to use the FX-8350 in a AM3+ 970 motherboard. However, there are leaked official AMD roadmaps that indicate that in 2016 they are planning to release their "Zen" CPU line, utilizing the 14nm mfg process, fitted into the upcoming FM3 socket. The FX chips are dirt cheap right now, and I am wondering if I should build now, or hold off until the next generation of CPUs are released? In addition, the R9 3XX series of GPUs are purportedly to be released in this quarter, and I was planning on purchasing a R9 290X for this system. Should I revise my plans and hold off, or go budget and get the current gen hardware?

My planned build:

-AMD FX-8350 "Vishera" 4.0GHz CPU

-MSI 970 GAMING ATX AM3+ Motherboard

-AMD RG2133 Gamer Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory

-AMD 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive

-Western Digital VelociRaptor 1TB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive

-MSI Radeon R9 290X 4GB TWIN FROZR Video Card

-Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case

-Corsair 760W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

-Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer

-Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)

 

[atariman72]

Can always upgrade later unless you are married right?

I mean hell, I'll probably build a second PC by then with next gen hardware.

 

[atariman72]

AMD has broke it's silence. Yesterday the Zen core was announced officially. It's going to be released in 2016 as the succesor for the FX series, have DDR4 support, Simultaneous multi-threading, FinFET, high bandwith low latency cache and will be in the AM4 socket.

http://

Well, now this makes my decision all the more difficult.

 

[davy rockstar]

as i said... both, intel and AMD have CPU's with a lot of time in the marcket, AMD most of course. No matter your desicion everithing will be obsolete sooner or latter and AMD right now much more sooner than later

so if you are so proud to buy a used intel's core i5 based PC, neither buy a pentium G3258 and buy a used core i7 latter. Then buy a FX 8320e and do a little OC, is not hard to do and you will learn a lot of this stuff. right now DDR4 RAM memory is a fail for gaming compared with top quality DDR3 so dont be afraid, for new items AMD always have been better in price to performance.

and if Zen is such a great improovement you just can sell your CPU+MOBO+RAM combo and go with ZEN then.
at your age you dont use to think in economy but anything has a salavation value. Remember that the PC you'll buy wont last in the garbage, it will have some value in the future.
If you are in budget and dont like this kind of deals, dont waste your time and buy a console.

 

[davy rockstar]

BTW good quallity PSU, case, peripherals, a good blue ray, storage drives, SSD use to have MUUUUUCH more life and take much more time before they get obsolete

 

[Memhorder]

I'm sure the reason AMD is holding off is because the 8350 is all the power a normal user needs for the time being. Even gamer. I don't know why people say Haswell Haswell when choosing CPU. Sure it's at the top of the charts but my AMD CPU does just fine playing games with a consistent 60 FPS which is what my monitor does, anything past that and it would be a waste of money for me. See I built to accustom around a 60 htz monitor at 1080p. Intel is good for a workhorse where 10 seconds matters while doing heavy tasks. These processors have a difference of mere seconds from each other.

 

[Jay Stew]

I'm sure the reason AMD is holding off is because the 8350 is all the power a normal user needs for the time being. Even gamer. I don't know why people say Haswell Haswell when choosing CPU. Sure it's at the top of the charts but my AMD CPU does just fine playing games with a consistent 60 FPS which is what my monitor does, anything past that and it would be a waste of money for me. See I built to accustom around a 60 htz monitor at 1080p. Intel is good for a workhorse where 10 seconds matters while doing heavy tasks. These processors have a difference of mere seconds from each other.

Could not agree more. I'd say get the lower cost AMD, go FX and go FX right now. In 2 years switch to the Zen if and when the benchys are out and the first price drop co-incides with Intel's next move.

 

[Lordos]

I wonder, why would you go 4x4GB for ram rather then 2x8GB ? two sticks use to be cheaper plus you have room to add more ram later.
There was one article about DDR3 memory here lately and apart from WinRAR it doesn't look to be much benefit with 4 sticks
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dram-benchmark-fluctuations,4080.html
though I didn't research this topic much, so perhaps I'm wrong and there is indeed some benefit with FX and 4 sticks vs 2 sticks

 

[atariman72]

I'm sure the reason AMD is holding off is because the 8350 is all the power a normal user needs for the time being. Even gamer. I don't know why people say Haswell Haswell when choosing CPU. Sure it's at the top of the charts but my AMD CPU does just fine playing games with a consistent 60 FPS which is what my monitor does, anything past that and it would be a waste of money for me. See I built to accustom around a 60 htz monitor at 1080p. Intel is good for a workhorse where 10 seconds matters while doing heavy tasks. These processors have a difference of mere seconds from each other.

Could not agree more. I'd say get the lower cost AMD, go FX and go FX right now. In 2 years switch to the Zen if and when the benchys are out and the first price drop co-incides with Intel's next move.

I would concur that would seem to be the most pragmatic path to take. Thanks for the advice.

 

[atariman72]

as i said... both, intel and AMD have CPU's with a lot of time in the marcket, AMD most of course. No matter your desicion everithing will be obsolete sooner or latter and AMD right now much more sooner than later

so if you are so proud to buy a used intel's core i5 based PC, neither buy a pentium G3258 and buy a used core i7 latter. Then buy a FX 8320e and do a little OC, is not hard to do and you will learn a lot of this stuff. right now DDR4 RAM memory is a fail for gaming compared with top quality DDR3 so dont be afraid, for new items AMD always have been better in price to performance.

and if Zen is such a great improovement you just can sell your CPU+MOBO+RAM combo and go with ZEN then.
at your age you dont use to think in economy but anything has a salavation value. Remember that the PC you'll buy wont last in the garbage, it will have some value in the future.
If you are in budget and dont like this kind of deals, dont waste your time and buy a console.

Very true, a valid point. However, I don't think I am going back to consoles. Any initial savings would become a deficit in the long run. Don't get me wrong, consoles are fine for most people, but if you have an account on TomsHardware, you're most likely not "most people".

 

[ccampy]

Unless your on a tight budget nobody with any sense should buy a and CPU for gaming they are passable for rendering editing however a i5 skylake will probably pull ahead with the 15% IPC boost and DDR 4/ram

 

[atariman72]

I wonder, why would you go 4x4GB for ram rather then 2x8GB ? two sticks use to be cheaper plus you have room to add more ram later.
There was one article about DDR3 memory here lately and apart from WinRAR it doesn't look to be much benefit with 4 sticks
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dram-benchmark-fluctuations,4080.html
though I didn't research this topic much, so perhaps I'm wrong and there is indeed some benefit with FX and 4 sticks vs 2 sticks

The reason I chose the RAM is because it is 2133, and honestly there isn't any benefit to 4x4. I just decided to go with it because it matches the color scheme. 16GB is plenty for anything I would throw at it, so there's really no reason to leave empty DIMM slots.

 

[Memhorder]

I wonder, why would you go 4x4GB for ram rather then 2x8GB ? two sticks use to be cheaper plus you have room to add more ram later.
There was one article about DDR3 memory here lately and apart from WinRAR it doesn't look to be much benefit with 4 sticks
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dram-benchmark-fluctuations,4080.html
though I didn't research this topic much, so perhaps I'm wrong and there is indeed some benefit with FX and 4 sticks vs 2 sticks

The reason I chose the RAM is because it is 2133, and honestly there isn't any benefit to 4x4. I just decided to go with it because it matches the color scheme. 16GB is plenty for anything I would throw at it, so there's really no reason to leave empty DIMM slots.

16 gigs is good. Especially when you got an SSD with operating system on it. A good portion (if not all) will go into standby, truly a benefit so SSD is not used for page-file. Also IMO a motherboard just does not look complete unless all the DIMM slots are occupied

 

[atariman72]

I wonder, why would you go 4x4GB for ram rather then 2x8GB ? two sticks use to be cheaper plus you have room to add more ram later.
There was one article about DDR3 memory here lately and apart from WinRAR it doesn't look to be much benefit with 4 sticks
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dram-benchmark-fluctuations,4080.html
though I didn't research this topic much, so perhaps I'm wrong and there is indeed some benefit with FX and 4 sticks vs 2 sticks

The reason I chose the RAM is because it is 2133, and honestly there isn't any benefit to 4x4. I just decided to go with it because it matches the color scheme. 16GB is plenty for anything I would throw at it, so there's really no reason to leave empty DIMM slots.

16 gigs is good. Especially when you got an SSD with operating system on it. A good portion (if not all) will go into standby, truly a benefit so SSD is not used for page-file. Also IMO a motherboard just does not look complete unless all the DIMM slots are occupied

At least someone gets what I'm talking about. No sense leaving those DIMM slots unused. When the hell am I going to need more than 16 gigs anyways? By the time that games become more demanding, I would have probably moved on to DDR4. The mobo is dual channel, but it would still support the quad channel memory as if it were two dual pairs? Or am I misinformed?

 

[davy rockstar]

DDR4 have horrible timing... is efficient, not powerful. And no dual channel has nothing to do with quad channel. one dual chanel made by 2 sticks of RAM works as if there is just one (and so with quad channel).

games are games... but maybe newer games will try to use the more available memory they can get, so the more the better. but i think 8 gigs are plenty for gaming and they will for a while

 

[Memhorder]

Windows will find ways of using the 16 gigs. It will pretty much cache everything you open for fast access. Standby or cached usage will shoot up as the more programs you open. I agree with davy boy. One channel will have two Dimms and that 8 gigs really is the sweet spot to date.

 

[shrapnel_indie]

From Sandy Bridge, to Ivy Bridge, to Haswell, to Broadwell, we've consistently seen a 10-15% improvement in IPC.

You're including Broadwell? the CPU SOOOOOOOOOO late that Intel has it (last know release date) barely out before Skylake? Actually We only see Broadwell for sale in AIO solutions mostly, and a few tablets. Broadwell on the desktop is still a NO SHOW that is over a year late, although supposedly it will be out soon for the desktop.


There isn't any real intel on the desktop Broadwell either as to how well it will really perform vs Haswell (or the keep 'em happy Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon.)

Now, I'd like to see Zen do to Intel what Phenom II did when it was released.... smack 'em upside the head... but will it? It MIGHT if the promised improvements (40%) in IPS are a reality.

Only time will tell though as Zen, Broadwell for the desktop, and Skylake aren't exactly for sale yet so we don't know the real improvements. (Those who may know what we want to know are still silenced by an NDA.)

 

[shrapnel_indie]

I have been planning an AMD based PC for gaming for quite a while now, and have put considerable thought into it. I intend to use the FX-8350 in a AM3+ 970 motherboard. However, there are leaked official AMD roadmaps that indicate that in 2016 they are planning to release their "Zen" CPU line, utilizing the 14nm mfg process, fitted into the upcoming FM3 socket. The FX chips are dirt cheap right now, and I am wondering if I should build now, or hold off until the next generation of CPUs are released?

Be careful playing the waiting game. There is always an improvement around the corner. If we always wait for the next improvement, we'll never commit and will be stuck with whatever we have now... sometimes that is something that won't ever do what we want, or it can be something that will barely do some of what we want to do.

Zen will have a new socket (AM4) and allegedly that will be the same socket for the new APUs too. If you haven't got the MoBo (I'd recommend a look at the 990TX boards if you stick with Vishera.) the RAM (as Zen is allegedly going DDR4 instead of DDR3) or an aftermarket cooler (I'd highly recommend one to run it cooler than the stock cooler, that Hyper 212 EVO is a good inexpensive one although it is overrated. There are better performing air coolers out there. You'll need an aftermarket cooler if you plan on overclocking.)... waiting won't be so critical other than the time waiting won't be filled with good gaming.

In addition, the R9 3XX series of GPUs are purportedly to be released in this quarter, and I was planning on purchasing a R9 290X for this system. Should I revise my plans and hold off, or go budget and get the current gen hardware?

Now, those new Radeon cards are supposed to be just right around the corner here. as in for sale within a couple of months. If you're planning on taking the Windows 10 upgrade I'd say wait for their release unless you go NVidia's GTX 9xx series.

As a side note, you yourself will probably never see any differences between Win 7 Pro and Win 7 Ult. and for the most part, most users can use Win 7 Home Premium without missing any of the features of Pro or Ultimate... plus you save some money using a "lesser" version of Win 7. You can also save some money by going with a 7200 RPM HDD as well. i.e. WD Black or Blue, or a Hitachi drive (now part of WD.) You also don't have to stick with AMD branded RAM or SSDs unless you really want to. (That AMD SSD is just a rebranded OCZ (now part of Toshiba) SSD.)

 

[Jay Stew]

Come on OP you are 16, do you want to drive the hippie bus now or wait for the Caddy that might come when you are 17. LOL

 

[NightAntilli]

Be careful playing the waiting game. There is always an improvement around the corner. If we always wait for the next improvement, we'll never commit and will be stuck with whatever we have now... sometimes that is something that won't ever do what we want, or it can be something that will barely do some of what we want to do.

I agree... But you have to weigh out what's more beneficial in the long run. If you have to wait a year for a minor upgrade, it's probably not worth it. If people are sure they'll only buy Intel, i'd tell them to buy anything that's available right now. The improvements that are to be expected from Intel are probably negligible.

But right now, we're talking about AMD FX CPUs. They currently have high power consumption, high heat production, low IPC, weak FP performance, cache issues. And to run that, you have an outdated chipset that doesn't support PCI-E 3.0, DDR-4, APUs. And you need a good quality motherboard to compensate for the additional heat and power after overclocking to make up for the low IPC. You'll need a more powerful and stable power supply as well. And a case with extremely good air flow. The costs can ramp up quite rapidly.
AMD is aware of these issues, and Zen being 14nm is pretty much guaranteed to fix at least half those problems. Is that worth the wait for a year? I say yes. But everyone should decide that for themselves.

 

[Jay Stew]

Be careful playing the waiting game. There is always an improvement around the corner. If we always wait for the next improvement, we'll never commit and will be stuck with whatever we have now... sometimes that is something that won't ever do what we want, or it can be something that will barely do some of what we want to do.

I agree... But you have to weigh out what's more beneficial in the long run. If you have to wait a year for a minor upgrade, it's probably not worth it. If people are sure they'll only buy Intel, i'd tell them to buy anything that's available right now. The improvements that are to be expected from Intel are probably negligible.

But right now, we're talking about AMD FX CPUs. They currently have high power consumption, high heat production, low IPC, weak FP performance, cache issues. And to run that, you have an outdated chipset that doesn't support PCI-E 3.0, DDR-4, APUs. And you need a good quality motherboard to compensate for the additional heat and power after overclocking to make up for the low IPC. You'll need a more powerful and stable power supply as well. And a case with extremely good air flow. The costs can ramp up quite rapidly.
AMD is aware of these issues, and Zen being 14nm is pretty much guaranteed to fix at least half those problems. Is that worth the wait for a year? I say yes. But everyone should decide that for themselves.

All good reasons to buy now because the price on this option won't be high to get now. Besides if you wait for Zen you are just waiting to pay more money. What is the point of that?

FX gets you a fast rig with the ability to overclock a winner, 8 cores, come on really, win x8, and DDR3 is all you need for the nest 2 years anyway, not like you can't drop in 32GB before switching to a new board. DDR4 is very expensive at the moment and not all that much more beneficial for the moola.

I for one don't want to pay for Intel's branding either which is largely the reason the i5 is so much more expensive while they are only 10-20% faster. So what if they dont' support PCI-E 3.0 you can still run a GTX970 on PCI-E on 2.0 without issues. Can't argue you'll need a good powersupply but my 1kw PSU was only $133 and you can go with a 800w one which is still more than you need for $99. MSI Gaming 970 mobo $100. I really didn't break the bank to put my system together.

Even Nghtantilli has his running on Aircooling so no big deal.

 

[NightAntilli]

All good reasons to buy now because the price on this option won't be high to get now. Besides if you wait for Zen you are just waiting to pay more money. What is the point of that?

Well, if it fixes everything that I mentioned above, I'd say it would be worth it. Imagine a true 8 core with the single core performance and power consumption of an i5 4690k. Would that be worth paying $300 for rather than $150? I'd say yes.

FX gets you a fast rig with the ability to overclock a winner, 8 cores, come on really, win x8, and DDR3 is all you need for the nest 2 years anyway, not like you can't drop in 32GB before switching to a new board. DDR4 is very expensive at the moment and not all that much more beneficial for the moola.

This is all true. Doesn't really change the argument.

I for one don't want to pay for Intel's branding either which is largely the reason the i5 is so much more expensive while they are only 10-20% faster. So what if they dont' support PCI-E 3.0 you can still run a GTX970 on PCI-E on 2.0 without issues.

Right now, yes. I don't know what DX12 will do, where CPU draw calls will no longer be the limit. I can't say that it WILL give a difference. I'm just saying that for the long term, 3.0 is simply a better investment than 2.0. In that sense, going for FM2+ might be the superior choice to AM3+. Except there are no 8 cores there xD

Can't argue you'll need a good powersupply but my 1kw PSU was only $133 and you can go with a 800w one which is still more than you need for $99. MSI Gaming 970 mobo $100. I really didn't break the bank to put my system together.

I agree that it doesn't break the bank. But the costs are still higher than they should be. Especially on the long term.

Even Nghtantilli has his running on Aircooling so no big deal.

But I do have a case that's built specifically for optimal air flow. And I just bought three additional fans to put in the thing. Right now I have 5 already, it's gonna be 8 total.

 

[Jay Stew]

What is over-priced? The cpu is $70 cheaper than the intel i5. I overbuilt on RAM, and on PSU because I render a lot.

I leave one side of my case open so no heat issues. I'm in and out of it enough monkeying around with it so its no big deal. If you want to close it up and really want to run fast go h105 water cooling. That is my plan in the next 6 months with min.

 

[NightAntilli]

I never said it was over-priced. I said the costs are higher than they should be on the long term. I still think AMD has the best direct cost/performance ratio. But if you want to play single core heavy games, you're gonna have to shell out additional money for the PSU, motherboard and cooling to be able to overclock. The $70 difference gets compensated easily there. Especially on the FX-8 CPUs.

And well, the FM2+ socket also beats the AM3+ socket in this regard. Too bad there's no 8 core CPU for it. I'd actually recommend getting an Athlon 860k system over any budget Intel system, and possibly even the FX CPUs. What you save on motherboard and cooling is quite significant, and can let you get a superior graphics card, or more RAM, an SSD, and so on. Depends on what the user wants.

I like my FX-8320, because I actually do stuff that currently uses the 8 cores, and I can game well enough on it. But if I had to choose right now, I'd simply wait for Zen.

 

[atariman72]

All good reasons to buy now because the price on this option won't be high to get now. Besides if you wait for Zen you are just waiting to pay more money. What is the point of that?

I agree that it would probably be more pragmatic. Better to simply go FX while it's dirt cheap, and simply upgrade when the first few inevitable price drops occur, if even then.

 

[NightAntilli]

I guess you have your answer then.