Should i wait

[Techno-boy]

I do understand what you are saying but you originally did not post as such and as I stated before we do not know what the difference between dx10 or dx11 will be as of yet or how buggy it will be. Maybe some games will be released in oct maybe not we just have to wait and see. I am not going off opinions but experience over the years with new tech release. It happens time and time again where new technology is released and is far from ready. it has always taken time to release games and software that uses the tech the hardware manufactures release and it takes time for the manufacturer to get the bugs out of the drivers. If you have the time to wait then great but we do not know how long it will take for everythign to be stable.If need be we can go back to every major tech release in the computer industry and show how it took a while to get things right and stable. I am just saying that it will not be perfect and may not even be completly stable when dx11 and the n finally games are released. Who knows maybe the first gen of dx11 cards will be a failure like the fx 5800 ultra or the original ati x series.

It all comes down to how long you can wait for an upgrade. If you can wait 2 months to a year till the items are released and stable with software to support it great then wait. If you need something now then get it now and in a year when everything is stable upgrade then. It has shown over the years that everyone that jumps on the first release of tech ahas always had problems and been disappointed with the results. First computer I built as a kid with my fathers help was a 386 and i have been building computers ever since and been building them for customers for the past 10 years.

The bugs are just minor temporary problems but not being able to use full DX 11 features or getting into a new era of graphics is much more worse. When there are new buggy DX 11 cards and non-buggy DX 10 cards, I bet that most people are not going to buy DX 10 cards but they will get DX11 instead. The bugs could be fix via online driver's update so it isn't a big deal. You would still get better performance over DX 10 cards with newer DX 11 cards. I've been waiting and delaying my PC build for nearly 2 years now because of this DX 11.

We are moving very quickly from DX 10 to DX 11 and you won't even see many DX 10.1 titled games out there. DX 10 almost did not see the light of the day. Since DirectX 11 is a superset of DX 10, it would be very easy for the game developers to move directly to DX 11 library from DX 10 library. The structure and coding are also very similar. This is good news because then it means that we would be seeing DX 11 games faster than we expected. ATI is pushing game developers to move quickly to DX 11 and adopting DX 11 features.

 

[chef7734]

The bugs are just minor temporary problems but not being able to use full DX 11 features or getting into a new era of graphics is much more worse. When there are new buggy DX 11 cards and non-buggy DX 10 cards, I bet that most people are not going to buy DX 10 cards but they will get DX11 instead. The bugs could be fix via online driver's update so it isn't a big deal. You would still get better performance over DX 10 cards with newer DX 11 cards. I've been waiting and delaying my PC build for nearly 2 years now because of this DX 11.

We are moving very quickly from DX 10 to DX 11 and you won't even see many DX 10.1 titled games out there. DX 10 almost did not see the light of the day. Since DirectX 11 is a superset of DX 10, it would be very easy for the game developers to move directly to DX 11 library from DX 10 library. The structure and coding are also very similar. This is good news because then it means that we would be seeing DX 11 games faster than we expected. ATI is pushing game developers to move quickly to DX 11 and adopting DX 11 features.

You sure do make a lot of assumptions there. You need to look at history to base off your. Pretty much same thing was said about dx10. If they developers would get off their butts and actually develop the games that would be great and I will be getting dx11 hardware as soon as there are games I want to play.Dx10 cards were out long before games were released for them. I personally buy gpu's every 6 months to a year when they are released. When a better gpu is released than a 285 I will trade in my 3 285s for them. I would love it if dx11 made a huge difference, but I dont think it really will. Give me atleast 10 titles that will be released for dx11 this year. you cant because ther are only like 1 or 2. Most of the games in development are still being written for dx10 and not even dx10.1. The best advice is if your card is not playing the games you want now then buy a card that will play them and when dx11 is released and stable with titles to support it then upgrade. If your current card is playingthe games you want then wait for stable dx11 support and title.

 

[chef7734]

Two years is way too long for me to wait for new technology. I have gone through the following cards in the past year. 8800gts 512, 3 gtx 260's, 2 4870's, and now on 3 gtx 285's. When the next best cards are released stable I will switch to them in my system.

 

[Techno-boy]

You sure do make a lot of assumptions there. You need to look at history to base off your. Pretty much same thing was said about dx10. If they developers would get off their butts and actually develop the games that would be great and I will be getting dx11 hardware as soon as there are games I want to play.Dx10 cards were out long before games were released for them. I personally buy gpu's every 6 months to a year when they are released. When a better gpu is released than a 285 I will trade in my 3 285s for them. I would love it if dx11 made a huge difference, but I dont think it really will. Give me atleast 10 titles that will be released for dx11 this year. you cant because ther are only like 1 or 2. Most of the games in development are still being written for dx10 and not even dx10.1. The best advice is if your card is not playing the games you want now then buy a card that will play them and when dx11 is released and stable with titles to support it then upgrade. If your current card is playingthe games you want then wait for stable dx11 support and title.

History does not always correspond to what will happen in the future. It might be very different from the past and it would not be like jumping from DX 9 to DX 10 wagon. You cannot assume that DX 11 would fail like DX 10 did. Don't you? 😀 Lol!

Didn't you read articles about ATI introducing and promoting DX 11 to the game developers lately? There will be many DX 11 titles coming soon because we are quickly adopting DX 11 since its coding structure is very similar to DX 10 so don't expect that they are not going to do this because they are already doing it. There will also be DX 11 on Vista too. Since DX 10 and Vista did not seem to successfully move most people from Windows XP then DX 11 and Windows 7 might do it better. Of course these are facts and not my opinion. 😀

There are plans for 6 directx 11 games to be release by this year maybe in Q4 2009. This thread: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/page-267615_15_50.html might give you more info about DX 11 and DX 11 games. There could even be more than 6 DX 11 games! By next year, you might even see hundreds perhaps but with your GTX 285, you won't be able to play DX 11 games with full DX 11 features otherwise you have to play it as another Microsoft's half-ass-DX 10 game again. In other words, you can still play the game but it is not going to be in DX 11 mode.

 

[Techno-boy]

Two years is way too long for me to wait for new technology. I have gone through the following cards in the past year. 8800gts 512, 3 gtx 260's, 2 4870's, and now on 3 gtx 285's. When the next best cards are released stable I will switch to them in my system.

For me it is fine because I currently have a notebook with Core 2 Duo with Geforce 8400M but it is not a Desktop PC. I already bought other parts for my Gaming PC rig like speakers, sound card, keyboard, mouse and DVD Driver but I am still waiting for DX 11 and Lynnfield. It also depends on what you currently have and when they will release newer tech. At the meantime, I am fine with my Geforce 8400M. 😉

 

[chef7734]

History does not always correspond to what will happen in the future. It might be very different from the past and it would not be like jumping from DX 9 to DX 10 wagon. You cannot assume that DX 11 would fail like DX 10 did. Don't you? 😀 Lol!

Didn't you read articles about ATI introducing and promoting DX 11 to the game developers lately? There will be many DX 11 titles coming soon because we are quickly adopting DX 11 since its coding structure is very similar to DX 10 so don't expect that they are not going to do this because they are already doing it. There will also be DX 11 on Vista too. Since DX 10 and Vista did not seem to successfully move most people from Windows XP then DX 11 and Windows 7 might do it better. Of course these are facts and not my opinion. 😀

There are plans for 6 directx 11 games to be release by this year maybe in Q4 2009. This thread: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/page-267615_15_50.html might give you more info about DX 11 and DX 11 games.

I can only find 2 titles that are expected in 2009 and 2 in 2010. These would be DIrt 2, battlefield bad company 2, f1 2010, and Battle forge.

 

[Techno-boy]

I can only find 2 titles that are expected in 2009 and 2 in 2010. These would be DIrt 2, battlefield bad company 2, f1 2010, and Battle forge.

Well you must be reading the wrong article. There are obviously more than 2 DX 11 games and there will be many by next year. 😀

 

[chef7734]

I can only find 2 titles that are expected in 2009 and 2 in 2010. These would be DIrt 2, battlefield bad company 2, f1 2010, and Battle forge.

Well you must be reading the wrong article. There are obviously more than 2 DX 11 games and there will be many by next year. 😀

Then please provide those titles that are dx 11 that will be released in 2009 and beginning of 2010. I gave titles of the ones I can find so please do the same.

 

[Techno-boy]

Then please provide those titles that are dx 11 that will be released in 2009 and beginning of 2010. I gave titles of the ones I can find so please do the same.

Upcoming DirectX 11 titled Games:

BattleForge
Battlefield: Bad Company 2
Dirt 2
F1 2010
GRID 2
Crytek Announces CryEngine 3 supporting DX 11
Crysis 2 (possibly in early 2010)
Max Payne 3 (in Winter Q4 2009)
Hitman 5: Ressurection (announced working title)
Project Offset/Meteor by Intel (definitely support DX 11 and allows real-time ray tracing (with Intel Larrabee))
Stalker: Call of Pripyat (announced working title)
Bioshock 2 (release in October 29 but could be delayed due to DX 11)
Dead Space 2 (could possibly be DX 11 title)
Assassin's Creed II

"ATI promoting DX 11 at game dev conference":

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090317153802_ATI_to_Promote_DirectX_11_Usage_at_Game_Developer_Conference.html

"ATI Expects a “Wave” of DirectX 11 Game Titles to Ship This Year.":

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090605060657_ATI_Expects_a_Wave_of_DirectX_11_Game_Titles_to_Ship_This_Year.html?TB_iframe=true&height=650&width=850

"Game Developers Likely to Utilize Performance Boosting Features of DirectX 11 First – ATI.":

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090611123755_Game_Developers_Likely_to_Utilize_Performance_Boosting_Features_of_DirectX_11_First__ATI.html

I can keep on going baby... 😀 Lol!

 

[chef7734]

BattleForge
Battlefield: Bad Company 2
Dirt 2
F1 2010
GRID 2
Crytek Announces CryEngine 3 supporting DX 11
Crysis 2 (possibly in early 2010)
Max Payne 3 (in Winter Q4 2009)
Hitman 6: Retribution (announced working title)
Project Offset/Meteor by Intel (definitely support DX 11 and allows real-time ray tracing (with Intel Larrabee))
Stalker: Call of Pripyat (announced working title)
Bioshock 2 (release in October 29 but could be delayed due to DX 11)
Dead Space 2 (could possibly be DX 11 title)


"ATI promoting DX 11 at game dev conference":

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090317153802_ATI_to_Promote_DirectX_11_Usage_at_Game_Developer_Conference.html

"ATI Expects a “Wave” of DirectX 11 Game Titles to Ship This Year.":

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090605060657_ATI_Expects_a_Wave_of_DirectX_11_Game_Titles_to_Ship_This_Year.html?TB_iframe=true&height=650&width=850

"Game Developers Likely to Utilize Performance Boosting Features of DirectX 11 First – ATI.":

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090611123755_Game_Developers_Likely_to_Utilize_Performance_Boosting_Features_of_DirectX_11_First__ATI.html

I can keep on going baby... 😀 Lol!

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090317153802_ATI_to_Promote_DirectX_11_Usage_at_Game_Developer_Conference.html
does not state any games that are dx11.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090605060657_ATI_Expects_a_Wave_of_DirectX_11_Game_Titles_to_Ship_This_Year.html?TB_iframe=true&height=650&width=850
also does not state any titles.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090611123755_Game_Developers_Likely_to_Utilize_Performance_Boosting_Features_of_DirectX_11_First__ATI.html
also does not state any specific titles.

our posts are just speculation. Crytek's website states that cryengin 3 supports dx9, and dx10.
=143]http://www.crytek.com/news/news/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=143

Stalkers website states they are looking into dx11 and will decide. Nothing says it will be dx11.

Most of the ones you posted are a could contain dx11 not that they do. Still there is only 4 titles as of right now that are announced for dx11 support.

But there you go again posting speculations as facts without announcements from the makers of the games. Seems like a running theme with you. I dont think you understand what the differences of rumors and true facts from the source of the products. But I think I have made my point to all the intelligent people reading this post about how speculation and facts are different and how history has a way of repeating itself. Once you come up with a press release from the software developers or card manufactorers then I will listen otherwise it is just rumors and speculation. I miss the days when reporters had to quote their sources and fact check with popper references.

 

[Techno-boy]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090317153802_ATI_to_Promote_DirectX_11_Usage_at_Game_Developer_Conference.html
does not state any games that are dx11.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090605060657_ATI_Expects_a_Wave_of_DirectX_11_Game_Titles_to_Ship_This_Year.html?TB_iframe=true&height=650&width=850
also does not state any titles.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090611123755_Game_Developers_Likely_to_Utilize_Performance_Boosting_Features_of_DirectX_11_First__ATI.html
also does not state any specific titles.

our posts are just speculation. Crytek's website states that cryengin 3 supports dx9, and dx10.
=143]http://www.crytek.com/news/news/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=143

Stalkers website states they are looking into dx11 and will decide. Nothing says it will be dx11.

Most of the ones you posted are a could contain dx11 not that they do. Still there is only 4 titles as of right now that are announced for dx11 support.

But there you go again posting speculations as facts without announcements from the makers of the games. Seems like a running theme with you. I dont think you understand what the differences of rumors and true facts from the source of the products.

If they are release after Windows 7, it is possible that these games could potentially be DX 11. Why not? Why wouldn't they make them as DX 11 games since by that time Windows 7 and dx 11 is already released. It's logic and it makes sense if they allow their games to support DX 11 because more and more people will move to Windows 7 and even use DX 11 card. Anyway, there are already some good DX 11 titles and in 2010 there will be more DX 11 games out there for sure. I don't even think that DX 11 games will come in 2011 or 2012 and I don't believe that there would only be 2 DX 11 games in 2009. So........ it is good to wait for DX 11 video cards.

 

[chef7734]

If they are release after Windows 7, it is possible that these games could potentially be DX 11. Why not? Why wouldn't they make them as DX 11 games since by that time Windows 7 and dx 11 is already released. It's logic and it makes sense if they allow their games to support DX 11 because more and more people will move to Windows 7 and even use DX 11 card.

Is it possible yes. Is it fact that they will be no. They still are nto making strictly dx10 games now. what makes you think that the games that are being released soon will be dx11 just because windows 7 will be released in october for he masses when the majority of the world still uses dx9 and winxp? But as of right now there are only 4 titles that have been announced with dx11 support.

 

[Techno-boy]

Is it possible yes. Is it fact that they will be no. They still are nto making strictly dx10 games now. what makes you think that the games that are being released soon will be dx11 just because windows 7 will be released in october for he masses when the majority of the world still uses dx9 and winxp? But as of right now there are only 4 titles that have been announced with dx11 support.

Who cares about DX 10 and who even bother to continue going with DX 10 library since like I said earlier, DX 11 coding structure is pretty similar to DX 10 and once it is release most game developers would already use DX 11 and I also believe that many of them already has DX 11 in their hands.

F**k Microsoft's half-ass DX 10 and move on to DX 11 and forget the DX 10.1. 😀 (Sorry for my language but seriously, who cares about DX 10 library once DX 11 is already available.)

And this is also why people on XP suffered the fate of not being able to play any DX 10 games so it does no good for them to get stuck with Windows XP in the first place.

Game developers already has the basics from DX 10 so there is certainly no doubt that they are going to add more features from DX 11 like tessellation and this would also boost the speed of the game over DX 10 games. It is very convenient. By the time that Windows 7 is released, more people will switch from XP, for sure. Windows XP will be obsolete too and you cannot even use DX 10 or DX 11 in the future with Windows XP.

 

[chef7734]

Who cares about DX 10 and who even bother to continue going with DX 10 library since like I said earlier, DX 11 coding structure is pretty similar to DX 10 and once it is release most game developers would already use DX 11 and I also believe that many of them already has DX 11 in their hands.

F**k Microsoft's half-ass DX 10 and move on to DX 11 and forget the DX 10.1. 😀 (Sorry for my language but seriously, who cares about DX 10 library once DX 11 is already available.)

Game developers already has the basics from DX 10 so there is certainly no doubt that they are going to add more features from DX 11 and this would also boost the speed of the game over DX 10 games. It is very convenient.

The majority set the standards not the minority. The majority will not be on windows 7 with dx11 support. When vista gets dx11 support I feel that will help software designers to focus on more than dx10 or dx9. Here is an example. If you have 100k people and 55k are on xp, 35k are on vista, and 10k on windows 7 who are you going to market? it sure will not be the 10%. You will market to the masses. It is not about what I think nor what you think it is what the masses think that will set the standards. hell I think they should have goten rid of winxp a long time ago and just written thins for dx10. I think when win 7 is released they should upgrade vista for dx10 support and only wright things in dx 11 if it is better. but that will not happen anymore than you wanting everyone to write games for dx11 and not dx10.

 

[Techno-boy]

The majority set the standards not the minority. The majority will not be on windows 7 with dx11 support. When vista gets dx11 support I feel that will help software designers to focus on more than dx10 or dx9. Here is an example. If you have 100k people and 55k are on xp, 35k are on vista, and 10k on windows 7 who are you going to market? it sure will not be the 10%. You will market to the masses. It is not about what I think nor what you think it is what the masses think that will set the standards. hell I think they should have goten rid of winxp a long time ago and just written thins for dx10. I think when win 7 is released they should upgrade vista for dx10 support and only wright things in dx 11 if it is better. but that will not happen anymore than you wanting everyone to write games for dx11 and not dx10.

Sorry, but the technology would still move forward. If the mass of people wanted to stick with their old tech like Windows XP and not being able to play any DX 10 or DX 11 games then it is their problem and their choice. Companies don't even care about what people thinks sometimes but the companies wanted to move on with their newer products too. It is definitely good news for us to see game developers to use newer tech rather than older ones and I am sure that you will agree with me. Games can still be compatible with DX 9 but it is Windows XP people's problem for not wanting to move forward then and that is why they are stuck with DX 9. Anyway, there will be DX 10 and DX 10.1 and DX 11 on Windows Vista but in order to use full DX 11 features, you would still need DX 11 video card.... Also, DirectX 11 video cards are still going to allow you play DX 10 games too so no problem for DX 11 video cards but DX 10 video cards would not allow you to play full DX 11 games. That's all I can say...

 

[chef7734]

Sorry, but the technology would still move forward. If the mass of people wanted to stick with their old tech like Windows XP and not being able to play any DX 10 or DX 11 games then it is their problem and their choice. Companies don't even care about what people thinks sometimes but the companies wanted to move on with their newer products too. It is definitely good news for us to see game developers to use newer tech rather than older ones and I am sure that you will agree with me. Games can still be compatible with DX 9 but it is Windows XP people's problem for not wanting to move forward then and that is why they are stuck with DX 9. Anyway, there will be DX 10 and DX 10.1 and DX 11 on Windows Vista but in order to use full DX 11 features, you would still need DX 11 video card.... Also, DirectX 11 video cards are still going to allow you play DX 10 games too so no problem for DX 11 video cards. That's all I can say...

It would be great if software developers did this but they don't. Software developers focus on the masses where hardware manufactorers can move forward. Lets go back. Look how long it took to get game support on winxp. Look how long it took for dx10 game support for vista. Look how long it took for 64bit support from Windows. What games support mac os or linux?Whether we like it or not they will develope for the masses. I am not against dx11 I am all for advancements in tech and software, but you have to realize tech and software move at quite different speeds. It has always been like this and it will remain so. Only way to fix this is MS stops supporting older tech as new tech comes out. As long as microsoft is behind the software developers will be behind in switching. Hell if the game developers would allow linuz support I would not be on MS.

 

[barefootdan]

can we please jsut stay on topic
so...so far it seems better not to wait do to all the bugs at the beginning

 

[Techno-boy]

Maybe this shock therapy can help you guys:

You won't believe your eyes!!!! 😱

Official Fact: ATI is realeasing DX 11 video cards in September 10, 2009!!!

http://techpulse360.com/2009/08/12/amd-directx-11-evergreen-graphics-chips-you-wont-believe-your-eyes/

😀

 

[chef7734]

Maybe this shock therapy can help you guys:

You won't believe your eyes!!!! 😱

Official Fact: ATI is realeasing DX 11 video cards in September 10, 2009!!!

http://techpulse360.com/2009/08/12/amd-directx-11-evergreen-graphics-chips-you-wont-believe-your-eyes/

😀

If it is true that would be great, but as of right now that is the only website stating that.Hopefully they release the cards and hopefully it has stable drivers and hopefully they release games within the next 6 months that support dx11.

 

[jerohmeee]

Chef you just got served.... haha just playing. Hopefully that release date is true. 😀

I do agree that one of the main things that hurt dx 10 was that it was not on XP and only on Vista. People did not like Vista and the word spread. Many people still use XP such as me. Now that dx 11 will be on BOTH Vista and W7 I think that will certainly help dx 11's case. I think many people currently still using XP will upgrade to W7. I mean, come on, XP is how old? Ancient in the time of computer technology. So pretty much all gamers are going to have the dx 11 software in the coming year. Unlike when dx 10 came out most still had xp and still a good amount have xp.

 

[chef7734]

Chef you just got served.... haha just playing. Hopefully that release date is true. 😀

I do agree that one of the main things that hurt dx 10 was that it was not on XP and only on Vista. People did not like Vista and the word spread. Many people still use XP such as me. Now that dx 11 will be on BOTH Vista and W7 I think that will certainly help dx 11's case. I think many people currently still using XP will upgrade to W7. I mean, come on, XP is how old? Ancient in the time of computer technology. So pretty much all gamers are going to have the dx 11 software in the coming year. Unlike when dx 10 came out most still had xp and still a good amount have xp.

How did I get served. There is still no other official releases or reviews of the cards nor are there any games as of right now that are dx11 capable nor do we know what the drivers will be like or even what all dx 11 will incorporate. We have one website that states that there is a release date for a card.
I never said it would not be comming out soon I just said do not tell people that it will be out with a specific timeline when there was no official releases from ati. Second I talked aobut software written for dx 11 which even if the cards come out at that date then there is nothing that will utilize that coding.

I think there are too many kids on this forum that think they know everything and blow things out of proportion. Lets say this. Everything is released in sept on time and drivers work great. What are you going to do with it since nothing runs dx11? Until october when windows 7 is released there will not be any games that support it and then I still think it will be several months till games are released as 95% of all the games that are being released soon are dx9 or dx 10 games.

 

[soundefx]

All I am hoping for is a clean break for dx11.

What I mean is that, look what happened to dx10.1. Everyone like Techno-boy went out and bought their new, buggy dx10.1 card and till this day have very few games that fully support it.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

First of all, the official release of the cards are yet to be determined, meaning, more likely within or around Sep 10th.
Secondly, while its true that theres very few engines that are true DX10, the DX11 can be done on current DX10 games on DX10 cards with limitations, and all these supposed "bugs" wont exist outside of poor programming, not existing on the HW side

The cards are out to the sites for review shortly, or by now, and NDA is either the 10th or the 17th

 

[rangers]

^^is that instead of a buggy DX10 card?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Well, people arent getting the fact that Vistas been out awhile, so almost all bugs gone there. W7 is nothing but a better done Vista. DX10 wasnt capable on nVidia DX10 cpable cards are the time, and nVidia was almost sued for it. And that DX11 is but a superset of DX10.
Other than those things, not sure what he meant heheh