Should You Buy a New Mac Mini, iMac or Mac Pro?

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Whats up with the windows vista bash?

Whats wrong with vista's memory mangement? instead of having the ram just sitting around doing nothing, vista preloads applications you use, and when you run them they load nearly instantly. I see no problems with the way it manages memory
 
This has got to be the best article on THG ever! Even besting out the classic mind-bogglers back in the day when THG's rocket scientists were the only upright non-commies on the net fighting for the truth about the superiority of the Pentium 4.

The author of this article is a true hero who belongs into that very same band of brothers.

I too hate 1x Gig RAM configurations. I want 2x 512 MB configs to make use of the raw power that is dual channel. No way am I gonna miss out on 3% performance just because Apple is cheap. And if you want to upgrade to 2 gig, just buy TWO new 1-Gig-sticks and make a fortune selling the 512-MB-sticks on ebay!!!

And what's up with the soldered on graphics in the iMac, not to speak of the Mini using integrated graphics. Given the abundant space in both these machines, I think Apple should just equip them with a standard PCI-Express slot and give the consumer the choice! If they used a standard ATX-board and cut the proprietary bull we could even use SLI!
But while they're using cheap-*** notebook technology, the least they could do is offer both ATI and nVidia! The easiest way to do this is have the robot solder on a Radeon and a GeForce chip alternatingly. This gives the tech savvy consumer back the power of choice he has come to love in his Macs.

The biggest insult of them all of course is the single optical drive in the Mac Pro. Only girls get by with one, everybody knows that. At a price of almost 2.000$, no-one should be forced to shell out another whopping 35$ for that inevitable second dvd-burner to achieve basic funtionality.

I'm not gonna buy a Mac either!

Tomorrow, I'm gonna take a long hard look at the product line-ups of Dell or Sony, and I'm gonna write a long hard essay about what's wrong with these companies, because that's what it's all about, isn't it? Being a monster bitch.
I don't wanna spoil anything beforehand, but it goes unsaid that I'm not pleased how Sony locks you in with these tiny 11.1"-screens in their 11.1"-laptops.
 
Remember that mac pro is over a year old and the 7300 did not look that bad back then and apple may be waiting for the next Intel chip set to update the mac pro.


Also the new imacs use MXM cards with a EFI bios.
 
I just ordered a new computer on newegg for 2300, 2x2gigs ocz ddr800, q6600, 8800gtx + 2x320gig 7200rpm, 1x150 10000rpm. I'm going to install linux on one of the 320 gig drives before I even build the thing and just stick the drive in and boot all the way in to a working install. My performance will toast the mac that costs the same price. Heck it would probably compete with a mac system twice its price once I OC it....

Mac is failing bigtime. Sure, they are used mostly in schools, but even that is changing. Their window manager is pants and despite jobs apparent dislike for buttons his OS supports an extremely sloppy and cluttered work environment. They look sleek and stylish on the outside and that is what their owners want to look like too, but once you take the cover off you find a mess.
 
From the article...
Maybe Steve Jobs and the rest of Apple's business and technical leadership are so obsessed with the success of iPods, iPhones and iTunes that computers no longer are Apple's flagship product.[/quotemsg]
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Well yeah…. Ya think maybe that’s why they changed the company name from Apple Computer Inc. to Apple Inc.?
 
The title of this article implies that a comparison in performance between the 3 different models of apple computers will be included. Which apple should you buy? Instead, it points out various flaws and strengths of each model and doesn't do an apples to apples comparison (for example: How quickly the Mac Mini, iMac or Mac Pro can render the same 20 minute video).

In the conclusion, the article states a PC should be purchased instead. This conclusion does not include any reference as to the ease of use of a Mac for various Sound or Video editing compared to a PC, or the cost of buying editing software for a PC compared to the included iLife software on the Mac. It only focuses on the cost of the rather outdated hardware on the Mac. Boo on this article! :non:

The title should just read "Why Apple Computers Suck. Buy PC."
 


hmm... I just read it and it DOES reference the very nice mac OS. I thought he did very well saying that the software is worth something. I just felt his point was that for the price on the default configs that sweet software might just tank the system if you use it like a pro, as the "pro" in the name suggests you should. 😉

also, with the HUGE premium on that old hardware, I could buy full versions of photoshop and other apps after my beefier PC purchase and STILL have cash leftover.

but maybe that was the point?



I thought it was a very well conceived and thought-out argument without getting too technical for the apple-ites that simply don't know or care about benchmarks as much as "hey, I have a mac".

oh, and I loved the object lesson on how far the have fallen. That chart is perfect. lol.
 

I used to have some respect for Apple, however as has been stated, they've fallen very far from their primary technology base and instead focus mainly on IPod glitter . Their laptops are still very well built if they could just get the underlaying hardware up to speed. Their primary focus on IPod may be their death toll if they don't refocus their efforts back on Mac or some new platform technology.
 
honestly, I don't think this is a funeral dirge at all. Apple will not die b/c of this, they just won't expand their computer market share at all... and may even shrink it... but they won't die.

There has always been a massive premium for inferior hardware with a mac. That is par for the course. In the past however, while the video card may be a gen behind it is still near the top. Or The subsystems are still solid even if a tick or two slower. Single channel ram and a sub-mainstream past-gen card is NOT just a tick or two slower.

but they are snooty and elitist enough to still believe that it is better no matter what the charts say...

...plus, that ipod will continue to make them boatloads of cash. They are not gonna die any time soon. 😉

 
It's hard to tell exactly what's wrong at Apple. Maybe Steve Jobs and the rest of Apple's business and technical leadership are so obsessed with the success of iPods, iPhones and iTunes that computers no longer are Apple's flagship product.
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I wonder if the author knows that Apple recently officially dropped the word "Computers" from their corporate name (ie going from Apple Computers to just Apple)

That says it all.
 
funny thing that I'm planning to buy a Mac in the near future, then I saw this article. I played with a few Linux distros and my main machine is a PC (Windows Vista) because of gaming. I never used a Mac in my life except when poking around on apple stores. Im not gonna buy a Mac Pro because its too much money, I came down with the Mac Mini and the iMac what should I buy? and Should I wait for Leopard? thanks.
 


And YOU don't think that that had alot to do with their lawsuit with APPLE music (aka Apple Corps), and the agreement of what they could call themselves before they settled it once again with a ton of coin? They probably weren't allowed to call themselves Apple Inc, prior to the Feb 2007 agreement.

Who wants to be ABC widgets Inc, when they can just be the one and only ABC inc and not have to create divisions for each target market/segment/industry?

It just so happens that Apple is doing a little more outside the computer realm, but it's not like they're becoming IKEA or CVS pharmacy or something, in addition to their PC market, they are selling small portable computers to play music/videos, and a slightly larger computer with phone features, and then computer software to run all those and that acts as a storefront for other people's music.

When and if Apple produces it's own music/video or goes beyond the realms of electronics, then I would agree, but pretty much everything they produce right now either is, or requires/supports a computer.
 


Exactly, and as for ease of use, ease of use for whom? the Luddites, I betcha they'd be happier with quick and easy LViewPro for 'ease of use', but then again it's limited compared to iphoto, which is limited compared to apperture, which is limited compared to photoshop. But those of us who grew up with both and used Adobe software on both know that 'ease of use' isn't the only focus for people here who may have been doing it for years.

I thought it was a very well conceived and thought-out argument without getting too technical for the apple-ites that simply don't know or care about benchmarks as much as "hey, I have a mac".
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Yes and as much as I agree with the article, and the reality-distortion field aspect of alot of its (the article)'s critics as you point out, though I also see a role for many of apple's products and recommend them to others, but not because their hardware is any good, but because their software (OSX or iTunes) is what really makes their hardware worth anything to the people who really see a PC as another appliance in their home like a VCR or Microwave, where matching the other stainless steel appliances or silver / black HIFI components matters as much as the utility. This is just a reality of their market and not a laudable aspect though.

I think Apples are perfect for all my friends at work who barely know enough about computers to do their daily job, but for most people here they aren't worth the additonal cost.
 



The cost falls out of the equation. While iLife is 'free' the basic hardware cost compared to an equivalent PC is higher, so you are still paying for that 'free' software. Add this - I don't know anyone who professionally edits video, sound, or pictures using the basic iLife apps - they get the professional grade tools. So you either have the cost of pro tools on top of an already over the top hardware cost, or you pay just over the top hardware prices for basic iLife functionality - useful consumer grade tools true, but ones not hard to acquire for a small cost on a Windows or Linux platform.

So what it boils down to is either you treat these as remarkably overpriced consumer grade systems or woefully inadequate professional systems.
 


So the iLife software is how expensive, and then compare it to the $99 copy of Phtoshop and Premier Elements you could've bought 1-2 years ago? Each time you buy the MAC that 'free' software is added, whereas I've had some software tools like Cool-edit (and it's free Audition replacement/upgrade) for about almost a decade. And if I buy another PC I don't need to pay the full price each time.

And that doesn't begin to compare the number of freeware and shareware apps/plugins which far outnumber those for MAC.
 
See, the thing is. That's a 3DMark spec. The people who do only 2D work with a MacPro the 7300GT is just fine for. If they do 3D / CAD work they shell out the bucks for the Quadros.

I agree Apple has a hole in their lineup for a power user who wants to dual-boot and have a high-end gaming card in there. It sucks for that and they have no product that addresses that area nor any aftermarket.

The Mac Mini and iMac are great for mom and pop. The iMac is great for office use for webwork, etc.. and the MacPro if you really need some oomph. However, the Xeons and the "workstation" class motherboard don't make great gaming boards anyway. They focus on stability. If you price out a Dell Precision workstation it will be a very similar price to the Mac Pro.

OS X rocks. It is the best combination of usablity, stability and a power OS that is out there for basic to advanced users.

 
Well, I agree with the factual content of this article by in large. It's a good analysis of the lineup and Apple would do well to listen. However, I disagree with your impractical conclusions.

You've answered: What should Apple do? But you intended to answer what should I do?

So far you'd byte your nose to spite your face. Not a good move.

Basically, the Mac Pro is outdated as could be, but it's the only way "in" to having a user configurable Mac. If you don't have a clear path to how you're going to be generating income with a Mac Pro, you have no business even considering this option. That's Apple's gift and downfall, to make regular people interested in elitist hardware. That thing wasn't made for you, if it had been, you would have bought it when it first came out, and you would have been glad you did without a second thought. It was actually a decent value back then. And people that needed it, didn't walk, they ran to it. So quit considering just because you like the shiny case. The people that configure an "I just won the lottery system", didn't just win the lottery, they made a ton of cash with that system.

Except for the Mac Mini, Apple gives you the option of making your own upgrades if you're geeky enough to know better. You know better, and yet you're still playing around with $1300.00 worth of outrageously overpriced upgrades, it makes no sense. At least Apple can justify it's silly lineup with a high profit margin, what's your justification for your silliness?

I don't see what's so "wrong" with Apple saving itself the money of buying a bunch of 512MB sticks for iMacs when 1GB is cheaper, and if you're knowledgeable enough to care about the 5% tops performance loss... then you should be knowledgeable enough to know that you only have to buy a single 1GB stick on Newegg instead of two b/c they saved this money and reduced waste.

In terms of "what should I do?" What's your budget? What are your goals? Apple would only be giving Nvidia or ATI much needed profit simply to place an underused graphics card in there. Shame on Apple for putting a $30.00 video card on a $2500.00 machine, but shame on you for even considering a Mac Pro as a gaming unit. Why would you ever, when a full featured gaming PC costs no more than $1000.00? That's just ridiculous on your part.

Again, should Apple update their lineup? Absolutely! Should they release a mid-priced real desktop? Yes! Should you shun a pleasant user experience from your life because you must have an all in one solution? It makes no sense, and it's this kind of ridiculous thinking that causes people to buy a $60,000.00 Lincoln pickup truck when really they should have gotten a used pickup truck and a 5-series BMW instead.

You want to haul the family to a camping trip once a year so you waste gas all year long on your SUV. But enough on these digressions.

Since the Mac Mini comes with the same exact software as the larger and more expensive Macs, it offers a better value. It's so tiny, you can place it on top of your gaming machine, what's the hold up? It only costs a little more than a high end graphics card, and unlike that, you'll be able to get recover at least a half of your money if you choose to sell the Mini within a couple of years. Most likely you have an external USB hard drive that you can use for that once in a while video editing, and unless you work with HD video(which I've never done, it may be fine, I just don't know), occasional video editing will work wonderfully on the Mac Mini even with only 1GB RAM. You can generate an .iso with it, and burn at 16x on your $35.00 PC DVD-BURNER and presto. If you'll be doing a lot of Mac-ing around, get the iMac, donate the 1GB stick to charity, and get 2 x 2GB sticks... and for under $1400.00 you have yourself a heck of a Mac Workstation. It is EXTREMELY unusual for a Mac workstation to require or even take advantage of more video power than the one supplied with the iMac.

I'm surprised that you can come here and rant about the video capabilities of a Mac, when the fact that Macs hurl-chunks at gaming is so obvious. It should certainly be obvious to you, Mr. expert.

I can say for if I were going to blow A LOT of money on a computer, I'd buy two. I have a Vista Ultimate PC that records TV throughout the day, and is pretty crazy nice for games. I trust NVIDIA or ATI will knock my socks off within 24 months with some must have video card upgrade, and so on. In the mean time, a Mac would be a great addition for the things that Macs are so unmatchable at. (Note that iMacs come with better graphics than other all in ones, and most desktops at BB or CC). Also, that is a really strong choice due to the video acceleration capabilities... capabilities that a few Mac users may actually notice.

So I guess what I'm saying is: If you "game", please tell me you know that Windows is the only way to go, with Linux a far FAR FAR second, and Mac an even more distant third. That's hardware aside! I have an 8600GT that I purchased for $100.00, it just so happens that the mid-end is cheap. It's NOT a low end video card. I love it. And I'll replace it with another card when they come out with the next generation without breaking a sweat.

If you video edit casually tell me you know that a little Mac Mini will be far cheaper than the software to even come close to the ease of use on a PC? In fact, money aside, you may never achieve the ease of use of a Mac in video editing on a PC. (that's a period there, it's a factual statement).

Perhaps you've come to some conclusions for yourself, but you didn't follow a logical path. You want a gaming computer. Though you like the shiny case of the Mac Pro.

Just because you can dual boot a Mac doesn't mean you should, just like buying a luxury vehicle that has pickup bed on it... it's best to forget that option. Buy a luxury vehicle for what a luxury vehicle is for: passenger comfort, aesthetics, design, the purr of the engine. Wouldn't it be awesome if a 5-series could tow 5 tons? Yeah... but the fact that it doesn't shouldn't necessarily keep you from owning one. Buy a Mac for Mac things, buy a PC for PC things. Life is much better than way.

One more thing... since laptops are already a closed format, not user upgradeable, and suck at gaming... going with a Mac laptop is always a good way to go Mac. Especially since the 15" MBP is the best laptop on this planet. (that's a period there).

You'd do well to start shopping for computers the way you shop for cars. I think you'll find in spite of how easily Apple could improve their lineup, it's not a bad lineup. Furthermore: it's always best to buy Apple products soon after they release them. They keep their price steady WHICH IS FABULOUS FOR RESALE VALUE, but it does make products at the end of the cycle ridiculously priced (e.g. the Mac Pro right now). The Mini and the iMac are really strong values right now. Appropriately priced b/c Apple's hold their value and are rock steady systems.

But if you want to "game": Your article should be titled "New PC, Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii?"
 
As an aside, this post was written while using a Wii console's internet browser. I hope it works :)

So, two comments:

1. I agree that a THG benchmark comparison for Macs would be very interesting to read. One could even have a part of the tests be games that run on the Mac OS and then the results of the same games run under Windows on that machine. To be really ambitious you could do that same test on a couple of prefab PCs (not DIY's) of about the same price.

2. I believe that what we can see is evidence that the culture at Apple is shifting towards a consumer electronics focus. The iPod, iPhone, and iMac continue to evolve and improve; while the Mac Pro/PowerPC concept topped out with their last G5 model and this iteration is almost the same computer but the mobo and CPU have changed.

I expect that they will drop the tower and keep trying to turn the iMac into the computer that the iPod fanatic buys. If they can give you a way to buy an add-in graphics card that's a powerful gaming card which allows the iMac to perform like an upper-midrange PC but with serious "fashion sense," that's the sweet spot they haven't quite found yet.

I think, though, that they would need a GPU that does not require as much active cooling as something like an 8800 "Mac Edition" might. They need another couple generations of GPU technology to come and go. Just look ay what the evolution of storage technology has done for their iPods: we now have portable media players with more data storage than most people's computers had 4-5 years ago. That to me is incredible.

So I won't buy a Mac yet (still) but maybe one day I might. It feels more like shopping for a car than a computer. Maybe that's the point. 😗
 
Wow, I read more comments, and I have to say that ignorance is alive and well.

Can we keep to the topic?

Now a 20" display is overpriced? Says who? It's between the company and the client what the price is. Macs are perfectly compatible with any and all monitors, so why is this even a point of discussion here? I know TONS of people that work in studios, that use Apple displays on PC workstations. Ready made PC workstations by the way, are usually pricier than Apples and also contain some older components. Yet they too kick so much *** for work and are rock solid. (In other words, they're also worth the money, heck yea).

Look at high end NEC displays, look at EIZO displays, just take a peak at EIZO displays. You overrate your knowledge. I sold my Apple display b/c I thought it was over priced, and I sold it for tons of money on eBay (again, the resale of Apple stuff is fantastic, do take that into account when you complain about the price... b/c the final cost is barely higher). I've been bouncing around from cheap display to cheap display. I ran my Apple display in SUSE LINUX, and Windows XP, it was quite nice, and it made my whole desk look like cash. I didn't like that it didn't have several inputs, but now I "get it", my desk is so messy and now that I've had the opportunity to hook up several things to my display I think I'd take a tidier desk instead. One cable, carries DVI, USB, Firewire and power... it was SO slick. Comparing an Apple display to a TN Hanns-G is like comparing a Bose Wave Radio to a $25 Clock Radio.

Go to Dell, and add an LED display to their laptops, then add everything else that comes on a MacBook Pro... you're left with a pricier unit. An ugly as sin, pricier unit.

You guys probably have concluded that I'm an Apple Zealot. The funny thing is: I'm not, I love my Vista Ultimate PC. I go through life with eyes wide open about it though. My PC is a money pit, but it's always up to date, and I like that. Seriously, it seems like I upgrade one part or another at least once a month. I also like Macs b/c I can't mess with them too much. I waste less time.

We need to stop thinking Mac versus PC. There is no such thing, there is no such thing as an Apple user and a PC user... that's not common. The fact that you use an iPod and I don't doesn't change who we are, I'm sorry it just doesn't. Stop reacting to the funny Mac ads with confrontation. The real zealotry is thinking that Microsoft is "magic" and that no alternatives exist.

Fact: You buy a Chevy Cavalier, and you spend less money than a BMW on the date of purchase. Fun fact no. 2: BMW owners have more sex. BMW's hold their value rather well... an extremely desirable BMW is still extremely desirable 5 years later. You also tend to get more promotions and are treated better by strangers... I wish I was making this stuff up!

I for one am really proud of Apple, they give USA a good name. Do I use Apple products exclusively? Hell no. But are their computers worth a premium? Absolutely, a premium you'll get back when you sell it down the road or when you don't have to waste your time fixing glitches and viruses all of the time.

Let me ask you this? Are you aware that aesthetics is trump card for almost anything we do or buy? Whether it's an office space, a car, a home, a computer, or even food (not trump but it's very important)? Become aware of that. More beautiful things and more beautiful people are worth more money everything else being equal. It's not wrong either, it's not news, it's a fact that is taking place whether you open your eyes to it or not.

Apple makes beautiful products, and beautiful interfaces, this is it's own good. It's hard to do, and expensive to do, otherwise more companies would do it. You know that some PC users pay $200 and up for Lian Li case right? And that looks like trash compared to a Mac.

So show me a display that has a more attractive cable layout and case than an Apple display, and if it costs less than an Apple display I'll kiss your feet.

Do you compare the price of eating out at a steak house to shopping for steak at Sam's club?

See, I eat at steak houses some time, and I buy steak at Sam's too... this is how you should be with Mac and PCs... partake of both, it's fun, don't be loyal to companies that aren't loyal to you! You'll just be missing out. And by the way, I think the default should be Mac. It takes more know how to cook for yourself, it takes far more knowledge to run a PC. So your parents, your grandparents, your kids are going to be so much happier with a Mac.

People that don't know how to cook go to restaurants! It's not a sin!

 
I like some of gochichi's comments about computers and SUV's...

Here is a thought on that wavelength: Get the nicer 'lil mac' or the notebook mac, get the next-gen game console on sale for $500 and then run them on your new flat panel HDTV/monitor you got on sale too and you're ready for consumer feel-good karma. The price is good and now you have "total multimedia" and you didn't have to build it yourself, install Windows, patch it, fix it, or smash Bioshock with a hammer because it rootkitted your rig with retarded-class DRM. :lol: :lol:


Hmmmmmmmmmn........
 


Not all of them the DELL and HP equivalent, the M2010 and HDX both are superior to their MAC equivalent, as was the Eurocom VIIVA, and that's without checking for others.

Also, that is a really strong choice due to the video acceleration capabilities... capabilities that a few Mac users may actually notice.
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But that most are actually very ignorant about, the MAC forums do nothing but complain that they didn't get the GF8600 in the iMAC, when the HD2600 is perfectly suited, yeah it was meant for 'those' people. :sarcastic:

So I guess what I'm saying is: If you "game", please tell me you know that Windows is the only way to go, with Linux a far FAR FAR second, and Mac an even more distant third.
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Personally I'd put the MAC gaming options above the Linux options, unless you're talking about hardware which is what you said was put to the side.

If you video edit casually tell me you know that a little Mac Mini will be far cheaper than the software to even come close to the ease of use on a PC? In fact, money aside, you may never achieve the ease of use of a Mac in video editing on a PC. (that's a period there, it's a factual statement).
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Based on what fact and what version of iMovie?
Have you used enough editing software? I've used both ends of the spectrum and there's alot of simple and effective tools out there. There's more than just Premiere or Windows movie maker out there, everything from the stuff that comes with Windows or Nero, to Pinnacle or Sony and a few others' mid range tools all the way to more serious apps like Premiere and beyond. Ease of use depends alot on what you're used to prior to using these tools, so I'd want to see the 'factual statement' supported by fact, because while I've used all of them and like different ones for different task (from quick capture/chop

Perhaps you've come to some conclusions for yourself, but you didn't follow a logical path. You want a gaming computer. Though you like the shiny case of the Mac Pro.

Just because you can dual boot a Mac doesn't mean you should, just like buying a luxury vehicle that has pickup bed on it... it's best to forget that option. Buy a luxury vehicle for what a luxury vehicle is for: passenger comfort, aesthetics, design, the purr of the engine. Wouldn't it be awesome if a 5-series could tow 5 tons? Yeah... but the fact that it doesn't shouldn't necessarily keep you from owning one. Buy a Mac for Mac things, buy a PC for PC things. Life is much better than way.

One more thing... since laptops are already a closed format, not user upgradeable, and suck at gaming...
Click to expand...

Not true. :non: Guess you've never heard of the Alienware, Clevos, DELLs, Voodos with upgradeable components.

Especially since the 15" MBP is the best laptop on this planet. (that's a period there).
Click to expand...

Just plain Fanboish that one! :pfff:
BTW, that's an exclamation point there.

You guys probably have concluded that I'm an Apple Zealot...
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Why would anyone get that impression? :sarcastic:

Stop reacting to the funny Mac ads with confrontation. The real zealotry is thinking that Microsoft is "magic" and that no alternatives exist.
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Stop thinking a PC is limited to Windows, you already mentioned Linux so either you're obtuse or just blinded by those same MAC ads, and you know less about PC & MAC than those you criticise.

So show me a display that has a more attractive cable layout and case than an Apple display,
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And so goes the sales pitch for the average Apple product.... look we have the prettiest and coziest appliances out there. No focus on the quality, power or utility. My focus would be 'show me a display with a better pictue, quality, flexability, and price.

Do you compare the price of eating out at a steak house to shopping for steak at Sam's club?
Click to expand...

Actually usually I compare my steak by how they taste on my tongue and feel in my stomach, I don't care if they were prepared in a marble cathedral and served on a golden platter. Same goes for my computer, I need something that does the job well for the price, not something that looks nice on my desk and impresses the girlfriend. :sarcastic:

You end well with the 'those who don't know how to cook' which parallels my recommendation for those who aren't computer savvy, but you use pretty lame arguments like cable management and falsehoods about the hardware to try and justify them. If you truely believed that there were room for both, you'd just tell the truth, that both have their benefits for different areas/reasons/people; but for most people here, and most THG readers, MACs aren't likely to be the first choice, but sometimes like in the case of the MacBookPro they mayy work well enough.
 
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