Shuttle XS29F: Is VIA's Nano Processor Powerful Enough?

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]jeffunit[/nom]My bad. The unit was tested at 115vac by 80plus.org[/citation]

Right, knowing about the former problem Patrick and Achim had at low load, I started with the smaller unit and noticed horrible idle power consumption, then tried the larger unit and found it was more efficient at that load. We generally don't buy power supplies, so the smallest unit we had was the smallest unit we could use.

I also think it says a lot for Corsair when an 80+ standard 300W unit at around 10% capacity is badly beaten by an 850W 80+ Gold unit at around 4% capacity

 

[voltagetoe]

I'd love to see an article about more powerful mini-itx systems/setups. Noise levels, gaming performance etc. An article that includes mini platform suitable low power CPUs that beat Atom.

 

[voltagetoe]

What kinda cooling/silence can you get to a M-ITX case that has a Jetway AM3 790GX board ? What kinda power/heat savings can you get by underclocking AM3 processors ?

 

[Guest]

I agree with voltagetoe: I want a review that compares Atom Itx to Nano Itx. I have read reviews that did so, and the Nano always beat the Atom in performance.

In all honestly, when I read this review, I did not think it was correct, and I had to review the comments to release it was.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]x2wolf[/nom]I agree with voltagetoe: I want a review that compares Atom Itx to Nano Itx. I have read reviews that did so, and the Nano always beat the Atom in performance. In all honestly, when I read this review, I did not think it was correct, and I had to review the comments to release it was.[/citation]

Remember that from the manufacturer's standpoint, a review is cheap marketing. From the reviewer's standpoint, that marketing has to represent the consumer, rather than the manufacturer, the point being that the product must please the consumer. Shuttle wanted to market its Nano in this article.

Unfortunately, both the systems Shuttle sent were targeted towards office use and widely different at the hardware level. Fortunately there is a way to deal with two widely-different desktop platforms: Compare them to a third, more traditional office platform. That is, compare them to the system they replace.

So, that's what happened here. And it was determined that the single-core Nano wasn't powerful enough to please the typical office user, using the typical office OS (Vista). The dual-core Atom was barely good enough, and the Celeron system was bigger, noisier, consumed far more power, and had far more computational power than more office users require. So from the office PC standpoint, when space savings, noise, power consumption, and performance adequacy are all important, the dual-core Atom fits.

This doesn't help Shuttle sell a bunch of Nano systems, so the "free marketing" they were hoping for simply didn't happen. On the other hand, a "consolation prize" is that they might sell a few more Atom systems. That goes back to the concept that the consumer needs take precidence over manufacturer desires in the review process.

 

[malnute]

These ppl requesting hd playback must have missed the target market of these platforms, not many business meetings being broadcast in hd with hi def sound yet

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the response, Crashman (and sorry for sounding negative).


Anyways, I think Shuttle should ask the people who need systems like this (businesses that need low power, small solutions and possible the occasional enthusiast that does not want to build their own nettop).

@malnute: you have a point, but understand that a small, quiet pc that can play movies is desirable for a secondary market for this device (if Shuttle can get it right).

 

[doron]

This article is like saying: Athlon x2 5200+ is better than pentium 4 = amd pwns intel.

Dual vs single core? Windows vista which chokes the heck outta this poor 1ghz chip? Wtf guys? That's what it called misleading!

Disappointing article.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]doron[/nom]This article is like saying: Athlon x2 5200+ is better than pentium 4 = amd pwns intel.Dual vs single core? Windows vista which chokes the heck outta this poor 1ghz chip? Wtf guys? That's what it called misleading!Disappointing article.[/citation]

These are the two systems Shuttle wants to sell, one's adequate for office use and the other isn't. Now, what's misleading about that?

 

[Guest]

@Crashman: I would say that the comparison is not fair, though as you have said that the decision was Shuttles, not yours, so don't sweat it.

 

[doron]

It's misleading because office users don't / shouldn't use vista, at least not in these kind of computers. You can't make a proper cpu review when the os is taking probably 50% of its power already.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]Anonymous[/nom]@Crashman: I would say that the comparison is not fair, though as you have said that the decision was Shuttles, not yours, so don't sweat it.[/citation]

It must be fair, there's no way it can't be fair. Let me put this in perspective for you: Let's say Vista is a load of crap.

A pickup truck load of crap

Now, you have three options for carying that load of crap: A compact sedan, a pickup truck, or a commercial dump truck. Which is the best machine for hauling that load of crap?

The argument that the sedan isn't designed to carry a pickup load of crap is EXACTLY THE POINT, thus it's a fair comparison.

 

[Guest]

@Crashman For you make the comparison fairly in the first place, one of two conditions must be met: either they must fall into a similar class (pickup vs. pickup) or they must be within the same price range.


People are mad that you compared two processors that are in two different classes. If Shuttle was selling these systems for pretty close to the same price, you could back up your point that way, but solely on class, this review is a bit unfair.

 

[K2N hater]

No XP tests? Why Vista?

 

[doron]

It must be fair, there's no way it can't be fair. Let me put this in perspective for you: Let's say Vista is a load of crap.

A pickup truck load of crap

And lets say windows xp is a small garbage bag. The sedan would be as good as the others, or at least usable. Maybe it's not, but guess we'll never know. That's why you're misleading ppl into thinking that the nano is utter trash.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]doron[/nom]And lets say windows xp is a small garbage bag. The sedan would be as good as the others, or at least usable. Maybe it's not, but guess we'll never know. That's why you're misleading ppl into thinking that the nano is utter trash.[/citation]

It's not misleading.

 

[Guest]

This article reads like an insane hatchet job.

The comparison of these two systems seems to be totally contrived in order to present the Atom in a better light than the Nano.

The claim that these PC's are for "office" use is absurd. Take a look at Shuttle's website for the X27D, which has the slogan "stylish simplicity: style does matter," and all of their pictures display the computer in a home environment. Does that look like it is being marketed to the corporate world?

This class of PC's is most likely to be used as a second system for web surfing or media playback. Because the Nano system is fanless, it happens to be particularly well suited to the HTPC role.

Claiming that these systems are designed for the office, and completely ignoring the Nano's superior accelerated video playback capabilities is a cheap way of smearing the Nano in general based on a dubious review. That is before even getting into the question of testing the fastest Atom against the slowest Nano.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]Warncke[/nom]This article reads like an insane hatchet job.The comparison of these two systems seems to be totally contrived in order to present the Atom in a better light than the Nano.The claim that these PC's are for "office" use is absurd. Take a look at Shuttle's website for the X27D, which has the slogan "stylish simplicity: style does matter," and all of their pictures display the computer in a home environment. Does that look like it is being marketed to the corporate world?This class of PC's is most likely to be used as a second system for web surfing or media playback. Because the Nano system is fanless, it happens to be particularly well suited to the HTPC role.Claiming that these systems are designed for the office, and completely ignoring the Nano's superior accelerated video playback capabilities is a cheap way of smearing the Nano in general based on a dubious review. That is before even getting into the question of testing the fastest Atom against the slowest Nano.[/citation]

You don't understand that this is how Shuttle WANTED to PROMOTE its Nano system. It's like they didn't know the results would turn out like this?

 

[Guest]

Considering how much controversy this article generated, could you guys compare more equal Atom/Nano systems? That would satisfy the general complaints for the most part.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]x2wolf[/nom]Considering how much controversy this article generated, could you guys compare more equal Atom/Nano systems? That would satisfy the general complaints for the most part.[/citation]

Are you supplying them? Will everything be identical except for the motherboard/CPU/Chipset?

 

[Guest]

I obviously can't supply them, but Intel and Via can. Couldn't you ask both of them to supply reference ITX systems with close enough processors that you could give a more balanced view?


I am not saying you have to or whether you could obtain such systems, but this would allow you to give a closer view of the processors themselves, which by the comments is what readers wanted, not a review of Jetways systems.

 

[Blueridge]

I agree, as you can see from the amount of comments, we're not interested on what Shuttle wants us to believe or how they want to market their computers, we're interested in getting a fair review that will really point out the differences between the Nano and the Atom. This would be a real review, made in true Tom's hardware spirit and not just a cheap marketing scheme that Shuttle used in its favor. We're interested in the cold facts, not what shuttle wants to show as. I'm sure that the guys at VIA have a reference board that can be reviewed and compared to the Intel reference design.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]blueridge[/nom]I agree, as you can see from the amount of comments, we're not interested on what Shuttle wants us to believe or how they want to market their computers, we're interested in getting a fair review that will really point out the differences between the Nano and the Atom. This would be a real review...[/citation]

Well, a real reviewer would point out that the Nano used in this case is inadequate for typical desktop use. Perhaps the 1.60 GHz Nano wouldn't feel so sluggish.

 

[americanbrian]

It all depends on what you think typical is.

If you think VISTA is typical then lets face it... You are wrong.

It was a flop, still is a flop and quite frankly EVEN MICROSOFT ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT.

MOST businesses that aren't completely moronic have been waiting for Win7. So spare me the sanctimonious crap. Either Win7 or WinXP would have shown a MASSIVE difference in usability.

AND, you still didn't answer my earlier question. Was the shuttle supplied with VISTA. NO IT WASN'T. I bet it was linux. SO if you are trying to show up what shuttle expected which you obviously were just lying when you said you would HAVE to use the supplied OS.

Duff review. Duff reviewer.

 

[americanbrian]

Title should be.. Is a via processor powerful enough to get over Vista's waste of resources?