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Evil_Overlord
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- Nov 30, 2007
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This review is seriously flawed. "Shuttle's X27: Can Atom Handle Vista?" Here are the problems with this article as I see it:
1.) No Vista 'Windows Experience Index' tests performed.
2.) The last paragraph of the introduction should relate to the title of the review. "Nevertheless, we’re curious to see if Shuttle’s translation of the Atom platform yields a system that not only saves power, but also gives you a usable desktop PC and offers real value at a time when century-old financial institutions are tanking two at a time" does not coinside with your article title "Can Atom Handle Vista?"
3.) No comparison of applications on different OSs. A computer isn't worth much if doesn't run any applications; so while the article is supposed to center around Vista's performance, one must include application benchmarks. While you have done that, you've neglected to add comparisons of running the same application atop different operating systems. Gimp will run on Windows XP, Vista, and many flavors of Linux; that would be an excellent way to tell if the Atom can handle Vista. I'm sure your other readers could suggest a whole suite of application benchmarks that would run on numerous operating systems including Linux.
4.) Page 4 - Test Setup and Benchmarks: "The purpose of this piece is to review Shuttle’s X27 ... [and decide] if you can fit a micro-ATX platform in your application." No, as you stated earlier, the goal of the article is to "...see if Shuttle’s translation of the Atom platform yields a system that not only saves power, but also gives you a usable desktop PC and offers real value..." or was it to answer the question "Can Atom Handle Vista"?
5.) The Conclusion: "Let’s start with the bottom line, first. Shuttle’s barebones X27 and pre-built X2700 are physically attractive mini-ITX platforms that lack the muscle to serve as everyday desktops." They lack the strength to serve as everyday desktops? All desktops? But you haven't tested when the Desktop OS is Windows XP or Linux. "The 1.6 GHz Atom 230 just doesn’t have the strength to drive Vista." What you've proved in this article is that the Atom 230 doesn't have the strength to run these applications. You've not generated any data to support that it can't run Vista. "Multi-tasking is a foregone conclusion nowadays and the Atom just can’t handle it in Vista." Where were your multi-tasking benchmarks?
To fix this article, you should make the three different purposes the same: The title of the article, the last paragraph on the Introduction page, and the "purpose" given on page 4 - Test Setup and Benchmarks. You should also completely redo the conclusion / discussion as your statements contained therein are not suppored by your data.
I offer the following links about writing Lab Reports to assist you in your next review:
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistrylabexperiments/a/labreports.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/genbio/maderinquiry/writing.html
http://staff.gps.edu/McConnell/Toolbox/labreport.htm
Each of the above articles stresses different aspects of a Lab Report. By reading all three you should have a good idea of how to write a technically correct report.
1.) No Vista 'Windows Experience Index' tests performed.
2.) The last paragraph of the introduction should relate to the title of the review. "Nevertheless, we’re curious to see if Shuttle’s translation of the Atom platform yields a system that not only saves power, but also gives you a usable desktop PC and offers real value at a time when century-old financial institutions are tanking two at a time" does not coinside with your article title "Can Atom Handle Vista?"
3.) No comparison of applications on different OSs. A computer isn't worth much if doesn't run any applications; so while the article is supposed to center around Vista's performance, one must include application benchmarks. While you have done that, you've neglected to add comparisons of running the same application atop different operating systems. Gimp will run on Windows XP, Vista, and many flavors of Linux; that would be an excellent way to tell if the Atom can handle Vista. I'm sure your other readers could suggest a whole suite of application benchmarks that would run on numerous operating systems including Linux.
4.) Page 4 - Test Setup and Benchmarks: "The purpose of this piece is to review Shuttle’s X27 ... [and decide] if you can fit a micro-ATX platform in your application." No, as you stated earlier, the goal of the article is to "...see if Shuttle’s translation of the Atom platform yields a system that not only saves power, but also gives you a usable desktop PC and offers real value..." or was it to answer the question "Can Atom Handle Vista"?
5.) The Conclusion: "Let’s start with the bottom line, first. Shuttle’s barebones X27 and pre-built X2700 are physically attractive mini-ITX platforms that lack the muscle to serve as everyday desktops." They lack the strength to serve as everyday desktops? All desktops? But you haven't tested when the Desktop OS is Windows XP or Linux. "The 1.6 GHz Atom 230 just doesn’t have the strength to drive Vista." What you've proved in this article is that the Atom 230 doesn't have the strength to run these applications. You've not generated any data to support that it can't run Vista. "Multi-tasking is a foregone conclusion nowadays and the Atom just can’t handle it in Vista." Where were your multi-tasking benchmarks?
To fix this article, you should make the three different purposes the same: The title of the article, the last paragraph on the Introduction page, and the "purpose" given on page 4 - Test Setup and Benchmarks. You should also completely redo the conclusion / discussion as your statements contained therein are not suppored by your data.
I offer the following links about writing Lab Reports to assist you in your next review:
http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistrylabexperiments/a/labreports.htm
http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/genbio/maderinquiry/writing.html
http://staff.gps.edu/McConnell/Toolbox/labreport.htm
Each of the above articles stresses different aspects of a Lab Report. By reading all three you should have a good idea of how to write a technically correct report.
Face it, all three of the current wannabe-ITX systems have issues.
AMD have the knowhow and the chipset capability, but even if they weren't stuck with an archaic and wasteful CPU architecture and fab process they seem to have forgotten to actually put together a mITX or mDTX platform to actually put the resulting CPU ON. mATX is the smallest they have, and while the chipset involved is, relatively speaking, made of win, the CPU and form factor fail.
Intel isn't really doing much better. Atom is cheap and not quite cheerful, but the choice of an in-order architecture across the whole range was cheeky at best and retarded at worst, especially if they got into competition at the Atom's high-end... whoops, they did. It cut costs but the higher-end Atoms are crippled by it and while they struggle along at optimised apps they are too limited in power to run most modern apps - Intel's barmy idea to break the Nano out of nettops and into mainstream PCs is a pipe dream that's fated to end badly. And whoever came up with the actual mDTX platform really needs shooting. I'm tempted to say that Intel's one platform is worse than AMD's none! 😛 Archaic chipset based on, what process? 90nm? 130nm?! The mad heat dissipation alone kills what little benefit Atom had in the first place.
VIA are little better; their mITX platform is the best of the bunch but still vastly inferior to what AMD could achieve if it tried. And its far from green; more like a mainstream laptop platform than a UMPC/nettop setup. Its also even more conflicted than the Atom; the PCIe slot screams of something that wants to be a lot more than a mobile phone/nettop chip. The fact you can use Nano+Epia as a gaming-capable platform (with a low-mid-range card such as 9600GSO/HD4670 stuck in there) is proof enough that it can actually drive proper modern software and it looks to have some real potential in the mainstream PC market, but it now seems less likely that VIA will release a dualcore chip before going 45nm next year; in that time AMD or Intel might be able to make some meaningful retaliation...
AMD have the knowhow and the chipset capability, but even if they weren't stuck with an archaic and wasteful CPU architecture and fab process they seem to have forgotten to actually put together a mITX or mDTX platform to actually put the resulting CPU ON. mATX is the smallest they have, and while the chipset involved is, relatively speaking, made of win, the CPU and form factor fail.
Intel isn't really doing much better. Atom is cheap and not quite cheerful, but the choice of an in-order architecture across the whole range was cheeky at best and retarded at worst, especially if they got into competition at the Atom's high-end... whoops, they did. It cut costs but the higher-end Atoms are crippled by it and while they struggle along at optimised apps they are too limited in power to run most modern apps - Intel's barmy idea to break the Nano out of nettops and into mainstream PCs is a pipe dream that's fated to end badly. And whoever came up with the actual mDTX platform really needs shooting. I'm tempted to say that Intel's one platform is worse than AMD's none! 😛 Archaic chipset based on, what process? 90nm? 130nm?! The mad heat dissipation alone kills what little benefit Atom had in the first place.
VIA are little better; their mITX platform is the best of the bunch but still vastly inferior to what AMD could achieve if it tried. And its far from green; more like a mainstream laptop platform than a UMPC/nettop setup. Its also even more conflicted than the Atom; the PCIe slot screams of something that wants to be a lot more than a mobile phone/nettop chip. The fact you can use Nano+Epia as a gaming-capable platform (with a low-mid-range card such as 9600GSO/HD4670 stuck in there) is proof enough that it can actually drive proper modern software and it looks to have some real potential in the mainstream PC market, but it now seems less likely that VIA will release a dualcore chip before going 45nm next year; in that time AMD or Intel might be able to make some meaningful retaliation...
rangers641
Distinguished
- Oct 10, 2008
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- 18,510
Why does the Atom need anything more than an onboard graphics accelerator? This isn't a gaming PC folks. A gaming PC sucks up 600W of power. Also, why does Tom's Hardware say this system is not worth being a file server? You could run a base linux install on a 500MHz Pentium II (yes 2) and serve a large company's FTP/email server, let alone a home with 3 or 4 people. I think this box would be "near" perfect to set up a home NAS, FTP, HTTP, email server, etc. Now all we need is a northbridge that is as energy efficient as the CPU and this PC/server will burn less electricity than those new energy efficient lightbulbs.
- Jul 4, 2008
- 1,878
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[citation][nom]rangers641[/nom]Why does the Atom need anything more than an onboard graphics accelerator? This isn't a gaming PC folks. A gaming PC sucks up 600W of power. Also, why does Tom's Hardware say this system is not worth being a file server? You could run a base linux install on a 500MHz Pentium II (yes 2) and serve a large company's FTP/email server, let alone a home with 3 or 4 people. I think this box would be "near" perfect to set up a home NAS, FTP, HTTP, email server, etc. Now all we need is a northbridge that is as energy efficient as the CPU and this PC/server will burn less electricity than those new energy efficient lightbulbs.[/citation]
Because, with room for a single 2.5" hard drive, you have room for 500GB, tops--and that's on ONE hard drive. It's not a criticism of the platform's processing capabilities.
I don't know about you, but I'm much more comfortable with a four-drive RAID 5 array housing my critical data. To each their own!
Because, with room for a single 2.5" hard drive, you have room for 500GB, tops--and that's on ONE hard drive. It's not a criticism of the platform's processing capabilities.
I don't know about you, but I'm much more comfortable with a four-drive RAID 5 array housing my critical data. To each their own!
eccentric909
Distinguished
- Oct 4, 2006
- 388
- 0
- 18,780
[citation][nom]Evil_Overlord[/nom]This review is seriously flawed. [/citation]
No, I'd more say your interpretation of the article is seriously flawed. The article is fine, it got it's point across in a succinct and very direct way, without being overly wordy or obnoxious.
Different strokes for different folks, everyone reads into an article with different eyes. The article gave me a good idea of comparing systems which are attempting to run Vista, at the same or close to the same price point, one touting energy efficiency, the other being best bang for your buck.
Whether good or bad, most of the mainstream computing market is not looking for Linux performance.. they want to run something they're familiar with and seeing if the "green" version of a PC can keep up with your average desktop.
No, I'd more say your interpretation of the article is seriously flawed. The article is fine, it got it's point across in a succinct and very direct way, without being overly wordy or obnoxious.
Different strokes for different folks, everyone reads into an article with different eyes. The article gave me a good idea of comparing systems which are attempting to run Vista, at the same or close to the same price point, one touting energy efficiency, the other being best bang for your buck.
Whether good or bad, most of the mainstream computing market is not looking for Linux performance.. they want to run something they're familiar with and seeing if the "green" version of a PC can keep up with your average desktop.
eccentric909
Distinguished
- Oct 4, 2006
- 388
- 0
- 18,780
[citation][nom]drfelip[/nom]I'd prefer to see the comparison against the 740G or a 780G integrated graphics. The difference against a 4670 is too big, both in performance and in power usage.[/citation]
I fully agree. I have a setup just like that that uses 41W in idle
I fully agree. I have a setup just like that that uses 41W in idle
Again a bunch of stupid tests done on an atom processor comparing it to a processor we all know is twice as fast...
I thought online articles should more than make it clear that the Atom is comparable to a 1Ghz processor?
Also, taking price in considerance, run this pc 8 hours a day, every weekday of the year, count the cost on electricity for 4 years (having an inflation of about 1 to 2% per year), and see how much you can deduct off the price of an AMD (which in essence uses more or less 3x the power of the Atom (and thus has about 3x the electricity bill as well).
Technically you can almost say the AMD can get the job done in 7,5 hours per day, while the Atom needs 8hours per day (using it to read/write documents will not really make much difference which system you use, only the load time of applications will be different,which is relatively only a small speed boost in the overall process of using the pc).
Another thing, you don't write benchmark results in seconds, once it becomes more than 1,5minute.
You just write 1:35 or so. Way easier to understand the benchmark;I mean,WTF? 230 seconds.. ? I mean.., what is that?
Also,running Futuremark Vantage on this thing??? Is like trying to bulldozer a construction site with a mini cooper!
Tomshardware reporters have an iq below 100 or what? I mean what's that all about?
I'd run 3Dmark'05 or '03 on that system.
I'd obviously only get the barebone system with a DVD rom installed(due to small spacing of DVD-rom).
Plug in the RAM and 32GB SSD myself (makes more sense, costs less).
Already have RAM and Disk.
The benchmark results will be much better with SLC SSD.
But more than that,I'd never go with a system like this, not supporting 2x SoDimm RAM slots.
This system obviously is slow in graphics.
Running 2x1GB (800Mhz?) in raid could majesticly improve system performance, and most likely together with a fast SSD make it run Vista just fine!
It will even playback 720P videos!
It would do intel good to come up with a GMA950b (45nm design, & improved graphics).
As for the Shuttle X27, it'd do them well to support the system with 2x SoDimm memory slots for raid configuration.
Doesn't increase power much,but does increase video performance.
I thought online articles should more than make it clear that the Atom is comparable to a 1Ghz processor?
Also, taking price in considerance, run this pc 8 hours a day, every weekday of the year, count the cost on electricity for 4 years (having an inflation of about 1 to 2% per year), and see how much you can deduct off the price of an AMD (which in essence uses more or less 3x the power of the Atom (and thus has about 3x the electricity bill as well).
Technically you can almost say the AMD can get the job done in 7,5 hours per day, while the Atom needs 8hours per day (using it to read/write documents will not really make much difference which system you use, only the load time of applications will be different,which is relatively only a small speed boost in the overall process of using the pc).
Another thing, you don't write benchmark results in seconds, once it becomes more than 1,5minute.
You just write 1:35 or so. Way easier to understand the benchmark;I mean,WTF? 230 seconds.. ? I mean.., what is that?
Also,running Futuremark Vantage on this thing??? Is like trying to bulldozer a construction site with a mini cooper!
Tomshardware reporters have an iq below 100 or what? I mean what's that all about?
I'd run 3Dmark'05 or '03 on that system.
I'd obviously only get the barebone system with a DVD rom installed(due to small spacing of DVD-rom).
Plug in the RAM and 32GB SSD myself (makes more sense, costs less).
Already have RAM and Disk.
The benchmark results will be much better with SLC SSD.
But more than that,I'd never go with a system like this, not supporting 2x SoDimm RAM slots.
This system obviously is slow in graphics.
Running 2x1GB (800Mhz?) in raid could majesticly improve system performance, and most likely together with a fast SSD make it run Vista just fine!
It will even playback 720P videos!
It would do intel good to come up with a GMA950b (45nm design, & improved graphics).
As for the Shuttle X27, it'd do them well to support the system with 2x SoDimm memory slots for raid configuration.
Doesn't increase power much,but does increase video performance.
[citation][nom]danimal_the_animal[/nom][/citation]
I'm sorry, but my Win XP version with the Atom works very ok!
I only wished it had dual DDR2 memory slots.
The Atom based pc running Win XP, (and preferably has a SLC SSD for the OS + internal HD for data backup) is more then enough for:
The home wired and wireless router, fileserver, chatroom client, Home website server, skype or MSN host(no more telephone), run anything below 720p movies, bluetooth station, print server.
All in one.
And it frees up some space too. It allows you to use your netbook,laptop, pda device for other purposes,and like that it can easily replace a desktop system that isn't used for gaming.
I'm sorry, but my Win XP version with the Atom works very ok!
I only wished it had dual DDR2 memory slots.
The Atom based pc running Win XP, (and preferably has a SLC SSD for the OS + internal HD for data backup) is more then enough for:
The home wired and wireless router, fileserver, chatroom client, Home website server, skype or MSN host(no more telephone), run anything below 720p movies, bluetooth station, print server.
All in one.
And it frees up some space too. It allows you to use your netbook,laptop, pda device for other purposes,and like that it can easily replace a desktop system that isn't used for gaming.
As zak rightly points out - the Atom is not supposed to be used in your uber gaming rig. Nor is it supposed to be used as a high end HTPC setup. I bought the atom for use in a carputer, a job which it does fantastically well. The Nano is undoubtedly much faster than the single core Atom - but then it should be at over twice the price!
U wrote that it supports simultaneous output to VGA/DVI and I have tested it and only works in clone mode, is it possible to run extended desktop mode on this motherboard?
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