Six Tech Companies Join Up to Boost Linux

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Wow! I must admit I love windows 7, it's my primary OS. But seeing this thing happen makes me more happy to keep Ubuntu(Unity) in my desktop. I just love having virus-free computer! 🙂
 
If the can make it easy enough that my grandmother does not need instructions or ask a million questions how to work something, then they will have a product. Ubuntu is getting easier but still I like to see more advancements. i guess more polished but keeping Ubuntu as powerful or more so as it is now.
 
update 2: Linux is by far the most popular supercomputer os for 2 reasons alone that make it the best windows alternative out there.
• Great multi-core (and multiprocessor) efficiency
• No bloat... at all...
 
If the can make it easy enough that my grandmother does not need instructions or ask a million questions how to work something
Click to expand...
My mother uses windows 7 and she is constantly asking how to do things and getting my help when something is not working
One thing about free software is that it wont evolve like that of a paid one
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, the linux kernel is open source and is evolving a lot faster than windows, so is firefox, chromium and apache, there is probably a lot more as well
 
This is a bad thing (considering we are a capitalist society). They don't use these types of companies to advance Linux, they use them to mess up other OS vendors. They will probably aim squarely at apple, google and MS and put "free" competing products in their market space built by an unpaid army of nerds.
 
[citation][nom]zinabas[/nom]@TA152H let me break down linux really simply for you... • it runs on anything• it can use any hardware• it is entirely open source so anyone can fix a bug meaning you no longer have to wait for the "ONE" supporting company to fix something• And with the right support it can run any game windows can... but MSFT isn't ever going to license out DirectX and no game company feels like rewriting their engines for "Open" libraries such OpenAL, OpenGL, and OpenCL so its not Linux's fault, MSFT hold the majority/monopoly so they tell the game companies what they will do.[/citation]
Windows and Linux have more in common though, both install on standard PC hardware, you can switch between them at will and a lot of people have dual-boot systems.
If Valve get their mojo working then lack of DirectX will eventually become a non-issue, it is now but it won't always be that way.

Linux and Windows don't really compete, as such, as there is no-one "controlling" Linux apart from the users. I can eventually see Windows and Linux being more collaberative and mutually supportive than anything Apple or Google do.
 
Lord_Orion: You're a good little slave, the wealthy capitalists thank you for your concern about their profits... Besides, only a socialist would want computers running free and open software, good citizens are honored to be able to serve the Microsoft monopoly.

You are the embodiment of dumbed-down citizens of Orwell's "1984"
 
[citation][nom]dreamer77dd[/nom]If the can make it easy enough that my grandmother does not need instructions or ask a million questions how to work something, then they will have a product. [/citation]
I am yet to see any OS that is so heavily abstracted that anyone with zero computing knowledge can use it. Such an OS would have no use anyway, it would be so far dumbed down that it would struggle to perform a single high-level task. OSs don't need dumbing down, people need smartening up. The dumber people get, the richer Microsoft, Apple and tech support conjobs get.

I do "tech support" for some friends who struggle every day with Windows XP and Vista. I don't ask for money but they always pay me something for my time. They would be nearly bankrupt if they got a real tech support guy to come in and take his time fixing trivial problems and charging $100/hour. It would serve them and me better if they knew how to use their systems, and if they didn't install garbage...
 
[citation][nom]mitch074[/nom]@TA152h: UNIX is a failure ever since it was created in 1970... Right.A little history.MSDOS was made as a dumbed down CPM - itself, a dumbed down UNIX. Remember, MSDOS was the OS MS sold for IBM, then added a GUI on top of it - up till Windows Millenium.When that dumbed down OS stopped being manageable, MS switched to their VMS-like kernel: NT. That one uses protected memory space, preemptive multitasking, a hardware abstraction layer etc. Like UNIX (as a matter of fact, NT can run a POSIX system: even NT ACLs have an eerie similarity to the draft POSIX ACLs).That so-called UNIX vendors failed to market it is one thing; that it failed is another. For one thing, most websites run on a UNIX or another. For another, OS X is a UNIX-like OS with a graphics layer that is not based on X11 - because remember, UNIX is not a graphical OS.But here, this is hardly relevant: this coalition intends to make a better experience for GNU/Linux (yes, I do mean the whole OS, not the kernel alone) on ARM systems. The problems: - the kernel isn't yet very optimized for SoC of the ARM type: eventhough Torvalds worked for Transmeta at one time, that part of the kernel still got less love than the x86, and would benefit a little from further development and testing. - the rest of the OS (starting with the libc library) is little or not at all optimized to make use of advanced ARM instructions: glibc, for instance, sucks on ARM (forks were made - it would be nice to have one and be done) - X11 has gotten modular, and can thus be kept, however, the multiple input driver is still stuck at the design stage, and it would be nice to have a unified one - due to X11's lack of MI, toolkits (gtk+, Qt, etc.) don't really have much developed to make use of these technologiesSo it's great to see big players working to make GNU/Linux more portable-friendly (and not merely more portable).[/citation]

Look at the way they are doing it.
Again a seperate place with seperate downloads.
I do find it's a noble and good initiative. Just that it isn't executed on a good way, it could be done much better.
Why don't they ask the Linux foundation for an extra clearly seperate branch of operation and fund it to do those things. This allows them to let things spill over to mainline more quickly and keep their own priorities. The problems you mentioned are not being solved. What they do is packaging and testing. This would be more efficiently done in strong cooperation with the Linux Foundation.
They should invest (actually starting with) more in optimization for and addition of low-level libraries for ARM at this point. Then working from low to higher in the stack until they reach the interface.

What Linux currently lacks is features and stabilization for low-level and high-level platform API's.
 
I think what ta152h is saying is from a standpoint of a home user (which he most likely is) linux isnt very user friendly after you install it. When you install it you put in the cd you burned on your windows box and boot the machine and it installs and looks kinda like windows 3.1 (the buttons and window boxes etc) but it installs and only asks you a few cryptic questions about where you want to install and what you want to put on the machine. All's fine so far. Then you reboot and get into linux and log in on your first linux desktop (again as a home user not going to dive right in on the CLI) and its pretty. Thats it... youre done... open firefox and surf the web because doing anything other than what's installed on the box is a lesson in zen-like patience. I tried to install a driver for my nvidia video card in my box and they wanted me to compile the friggin driver myself. Not really a problem but the thing is I didnt install the compiler with the rest of the OS because I didnt think I was going to do any programming on it. For a home user having to reinstall your entire OS because while installing you chose not to install a compiler is a deal breaker right there. Then ON TOP of that having to compile your own drivers because there's no standardized installer for linux is another blow to the adoption of the thing by the mass market. Home users dont want to compile their own software just to get the web browser to scroll smoothly. Hello? Redhat has RPM packages but if you arent using fedora or rhel you dont get to use those. I think I heard Debian has its own install type things now but Im not certian (its been a couple of years since ive been on debian), and possibly Ubuntu. But with over 400 flavors of linux and none of them allow someone to install a program or driver simply by double clicking on something leads to a big fail in the home user market. Hell I spent 5 days (granted not looking 24hrs a day) looking for a skin for pidgin that I could tolerate. After all of that what are you left with (assuming youre like me and you didnt bother to reinstall the OS so you could try to compile your own video card drivers)? You are left with a pc that has a music player, a web browser, email client, a handful of table top style games (like 8 different kinds of solitaire), an IM program, an MS office clone, and i think that's about it. Good luck installing anything else on it because there isnt anything else out there to install! Unless you wanna play enemy territory quake wars or doom3 (never tried installing those but I know they are available). If you want to run any other programs you have to install wine (should be whine if you think about it) then you can install windows programs ... some windows programs on your linux box. Which brings me to the question... WTF is the point of running linux if youre just going to install windows programs anyway? "sticking it to the man"? Yeah im sure every home user is more concerned with being a non-conformist than just having software that works and isnt a total hassle.

Linux is a great OS for business cause its free and doesnt have the virus problems windows does. But that would change if more people used it... then they would be in the same boat as windows with daily security updates etc etc. IIRC there's a virus out for mac now, and thats just a hacked version of debian anyway.

From a programmer standpoint its a great os because programmers want the granular control over their OS... something that I personally wish I had over windows at times... especially since vista where they changed the number of window layouts it remembers to 1 (try it ... if you are on vista or 7 open a window and size it the way you like it then close it and open a different window.. it will be the same size and relatively the same location... annoying isnt it?).

But in the end linux will not really make a dent in the home pc market till they make an installer for their os, get more games out for it (thank you valve even if you did it for money), and allow the home user to not feel like their pc is finished once you finish installing the OS. By finished I mean there isnt anything else you can do to it once the OS is installed. With windows you feel like "ok Ive installed the operating system what else can I put on here?"... with linux youre like "ok ive installed the OS Im done putting stuff on here forever".
 
Great news! I'm happy to see some collaboration between companies on this. The one thing that has been linux's greatest asset and liability is its open source licensing. It is great in that folks are free from proprietary code and they can make modifications themselves and share it with the community. Unfortunately, that same openness also has caused a great deal of fragmentation. Currently there are over 600 distros floating out in there and for someone just coming into Linux, that can be a little daunting and confusing. Linux has not gained market share on the desktop market because of a sub-par kernel, but because of this fragmentation as well as the fact that open source development, in most cases, tend to lag behind commercially developed. In order for Linux to be taken seriously by commercial software houses and hardware manufacturers for the typical household and corporate desktop users, Linux needs to have a unified face and build to lead the charge. Ubuntu has taken the first significant steps toward this, but it will require more corporations/coalitions like Linaro to make this happen.
 
[citation][nom]zinabas[/nom]minor update: I forgot Valve finally got the balls to walk out on MSFT and let Apple have a little slice of the pie.[/citation]
I thought Valve gave them a slice of cake.
 
[nom]shin0bi272[/nom]

As sad as it may sound there is a reason to why no major software developer wants to dive in and start programing for that OS, How many distro's are there? How many of the are compatible with each other (I'm talking about the packets)? Ubuntu is on the right way and it may be the only Linux based OS that might succeed in increasing the general public interests in it, the more stable Ubuntu becomes, better dev tools and support, the faster this will become the real alternative to MS OS. Linux needs polishing and centralized communications, so when one has trouble with the software, it shouldn't be because of the some OS bug. But purely a SOFTWARE bug.
 
@shin0bi272

Exactly, there is too little attention for this.

Also because of the nature of software and computers.
Hardware and senario's are changing.
And software has stupid drawbacks.

We're still not at the end.
Even in some circles of nice-OperatingSystems.
Someone got really flamed bad because of providing a GUI.

Linux (and Windows) need to evolve a little bit more.
API's used are a little unstable to my taste.
Stuff should mature somewhat.

I really like the Open nature of Linux.
It's only so bad that a lot of things are not stable or not well-thought out. The lack of standardization of certain features and the unwillingness of the linux community to deeply and future-proof look into them is a great dissapointment to me. It's going the right direction but very slowly. Currently the Linux Standards Base still is at rpm 3.2 and thinking about moving to version 4. They should have added this possibility for LSB 4.0 already. This kind of stuff really hurts Linux, this is especially difficult in the long run. As a developer you're sandwiched between old, deprecated api's and new unstable api's. Eventually this will all pass of course.
 
Also the dreaded way of packaging really hurts stability.
The Linux directory tree is very bad. It's unixes with stuff added.
This prevents a clean design where each program is seperated from one another. Thus causing the dependency-conflict thing. With a better directory tree. Look at windows or better GoboLinux, they have solved some problems. And this allows for independent packages for each program. Because they are in their own directory anyway. This does not mean there is bloat! Each program just has it's own directory. Sure you can add bloat by adding every package, lib to every program. That's YOUR decision then, not Linux. Proprietary, old, binary-only programs could add some seperate (think as dll, seperate files) dependencies that only is in their directory and doesn't influence other programs. There is another directory for general libs, if the Linux distribution provides (LSB also asks stuff like this including but not limited too libpng) a general directory for using such libraries without duplication there is not meaningful bloat.
 
I prefer Windows, but I'll take Linux over Mac any day. Ubuntu 10 LTS is a fantastic Linux build.
 
You Linux fanboiz can blab on and on all day about how superior Linux is to everything else, but it ain't gonna matter squat until it becomes more user friendly. Mark me down, but it's the truth. Why do you think it has such a piss-poor market share?
 
shin0bi272:

Point for point i will guide you to enlightenment (no not the window manager).

First of all the installer should be functional not high res 90fps bloatware killing any possible performance. If it is possible to do both at the same time then do your thing but functionality should be key point here since making it look more attractive wont make it more easy to use only more heavy to run.

The installers of all the major low curve Linux distro's consists of a maximum of 12 steps asking questions like your time zone region and your preferred desktop manager if you are not able to answer these questions you should read up on it and apart from the partitioning any self respecting computer user should do more then fine. For those that are not to sure all distro's baked in default settings which will do fine.

The software set of the low curve Linux distro's is pretty comprehensive and for most users more then enough. The accused MS office clone you speak of is actually in most cases OpenOffice.org and to my best knowledge it works just as well if not better as the MS office suit. But there are also media players mail clients and all kinds of tools that would make any modern low curve distro more then sufficient for day to day use.

It is sad to hear that your ability to google something is so nonexistent and i hope for your sake you are joking when you wrote that you needed to reinstall the OS in order to get a compiler on your system. Did you even try to find it using your packet manager?, i guess not. However you could have installed the compilers form your packet manager. Even more worrisome then your the height of your intellect and ability to google or use common sense would be the way you made choices when you decided not to use a default installation. For sure you actually knew what you where doing.

The Nvdia drivers are one click installers for some distro's while for others you have to recompile however typing in 3 lines in the command prompt should be something any moron can do and since you only have to do it once why not just use a guide and do it?, If for any reason you cant do it dont understand it or dont want to do it you should not blame the OS gfor making it impossible you should take blame for being lazy or should preach for improvement bottom line this is your stupidity.

I am not saying its easy i am just saying the thing you complain about are at least to be solved by a simple run to google and a 5 minute read.

Not being able to find a skin for pidgin you like is hardly a complaint about an OS and is completely irrelevant when discussing linux as a operating system. You should either create your own skin or ask some skinner to create one in a style you like. If all else fails you could complain about the lack of a official MSN port but then again we all know that it will be released when hell freezes over.

There is a lot of great linux software out there and though it is a given that non are exactly like there windows counterparts it seems like your one of the few that actually expected them to be. There are not many games i give you that but name a program for windows and i will find you 3 that will be able to do the same and or more, name a task and i will find you 3 apps designed to do just that task no more no less and they will do it just as good or better as their windows counterparts.

Wine (a recursive acronym so putting a H in there really wont fit) is largely used to run windows only applications and sometimes games that have no *nix counterpart. In example in house applications and office based databases wont work on a non windows system (though its a given a lot wont work on a windows system newer then XP or with a IE version higher then 6 either). Wine gives you the ability not to have to chose a *nix compatible replacement for your windows tools and games but that does not mean in any way that it is the only solution! Personally i only use wine for World of Warcraft and it runs fine for that purpose.

Many distro's have there own policies about updating most of them have a 6 month to 18 month release cycle and patches as soon as the patches are ready. The major release intervals are mostly based on how stable vs leading edge a distro want to be and when choosing your distro this might be a thing to think about. The "hotfixes" roll in as soon as they are created and for as far as i can see that's a good thing since it is the only way to keep a platform secure for more then two weeks.

Your conclusion should be:

linux will not really make it on to my desktop till they dumbed it down to my level or i finally learn to read and accept that linux is not windows and there are enough games for me to play since that is what i mainly use my pc for.

And again your way of thinking (or the lack thereof) is what makes linux suitable for you. To me this means that as long as morons like you are shouting their ignorance all over the internet i have a save and secure system.

 
[citation][nom]annymmo[/nom]Look at windows or better GoboLinux, they have solved some problems.[/citation]
Whoa whoa whoa, you mean Linux should follow the Windows DLL hell path to fix dependency issues? No way. The way Windows and Windows applications handle dependencies is truly horrific. It seems that 70% of all program installers require a VC++ redistributable to run, yet rather than checking to see if one already exists on the system they conveniently add their own copy. I have so many VC++ 2005/2008/2010 redists installed I could start selling them.

Windows is fantastic until your programs randomly stop working for no apparent reason. I use Visual Studio 2010 and just yesterday it now crashes upon starting up. I've not changed anything related to the program at all, and yet it no longer starts. Visual Studio 2008 caused me the exact same problem about a month ago. VS 2005 has always been rock stable though.

Cue someone telling me I must be wrong because they have no problems. Well folks, this thread is all about saying why Linux is a failure or a success based on personal experiences and biases. And there is alot of Windows bias here. People calling Linux non-user friendly because it doesn't follow the Windows way of doing things that is completely unintuitive anyway. I laugh, I laugh. To the "average user" (which is an entirely meaningless term because there's no such thing) Windows makes no sense until they've learned all the quirks. Linux is the same. Guess what, computers require you to learn. I'm afraid that such is life.
 
Now if some companies would get together and design a DirectX equivalent API (and I don't mean run DirectX itself with emulation). And I mean this from the code library perspective. Basically every function in the reference guide would have an exact equivalent.

Game devs would still have to make a separate product, but all the calls to perform the same functionality would be there.

Gaming is the one thing that kept me in windows world. Java, C++, PHP, apache, mysql, oracle, xampp, etc are the same to me from the dev perspective.

All the stupid windows oddities, it would be so nice to be able to jump to the line of code and try to figure out what is wrong when the OS throws up an error.

 
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