[SOLVED] [SOLVED] Help Chosing New Case Fans (there are so many choices now)

[Darkbreeze]

Another option, with serious airflow improvement, is the Define S2. It's the EXACT same case as the Define R6, but without any drive cages in the way. All drives get mounted on the bottom of the case or on the backside of the motherboard.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3371-fractal-define-s2-case-review-doesnt-need-to-exist


I have the original Define S, and although I'd rather have the newer version, I have no complaints about this case at all AND have done some fairly heavy modifications to it to improve airflow which have paid dividends. Kind of looks nice too.

These are actually older pictures. I need to take some newer ones with many changes made since then.

 

[Karadjgne]

Many ppl will say that cases with doors etc will be bad for airflow, and even pro reviews have said as much for my R5. Bunch of hogwash really. It all depends on the case design. There's plenty of space in front of those 2x 140mm fans that they provide plenty of airflow for most ppl. Reviewers have this nasty tendency to go to extremes with all tests, and yes doors don't help matters when compared to open flow designs such as the Meshify. But most ppl do not need extremes of airflow, they just need the air to flow and the stock Fractal fans do that exceedingly well. Not to say there aren't better, but you could do a damn sight worse.

Both of the hdd bays are gone in my R5, I still use a BR burner in the top slot, but both my hdd and ssd sit in the lower optical bay. There's honestly tons of excess room, even mounted my 280mm aio in pull at the front and never came close to the gpu.

The R6 is an awesome case, but then again, it is a Fractal Design, so it's hard to say anything bad about it at all. Oh, except 1 thing. If it's in your bedroom and you plan on leaving it run overnight, drop something over the power/hdd led, that sucker is bright!

 

[Darkbreeze]

My system dropped ten degrees, with the EXACT same fan configuration, when I opened the front panel up as compared to before I did that. So I don't believe it's "make believe". In fact, the system is quieter AFTER doing that than it was before, because the fan RPM does not tend to ramp up as frequently OR as high, when it does.

Obviously, that was during worst case scenarios running full loads of Prime small FFT or Realbench, so you have to consider, but under other loads like Handbrake (Actual conversions) it was very similar.

 

[Karadjgne]

I like that word, 'most'....

I7-3770K @4.6GHz with Cryorig R1 Ultimate, p95 26.6 small fft door closed 70°C. Door open 67°C. Gaming temps @ 55°C door open or closed. Quieter with door closed. 2x140mm stock intakes, 1x 140mm exhaust, top panels intact.
Got the same temps with an nzxt x61 @ 4.9GHz with only the aio as exhaust and/or intake, 2x 140mm fans as intake and/or exhaust. (I swapped out of curiosity to experiment with airflow vrs heat, didn't change much other than hdd temp went up 2°C.)

One thing I didn't monitor was fan rpm, figures. I've got SpeedFan set to max all the fans out at roughly 900rpm, so everything is next to silent anyways, so my temps are kinda squewed by that, I've not done max rpm tests, which could very well show a larger difference. But even as supposedly quiet as that R1 is supposed to be, even at 900rpm (ish), if I pull off the silencer lids, it's rather loud.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I like that word, 'most'....

Where'd you see that at?

 

[Karadjgne]

Many ppl will say that cases with doors etc will be bad for airflow, and even pro reviews have said as much for my R5.

But most ppl do not need extremes of airflow, they just need the air to flow

I said most. The vast majority of pc users. That includes a lot of office pc's, regular gamers, grandma's YouTube surfer etc. It's only ppl who regularly push boundaries with uber heavy loads, like p95 or handbrake or Adobe CC etc and are looking for benchmark numbers, that'll benefit. For most ppl there's no difference in the performance of their pc with uber airflow. As long as it's decent, that's all that matters.

 

[Noki0100]

The images aren't loading for me, shame.

Most of my PC usage is Web Browsing, Kodi on another screen and maybe a Windows VM in the background and my PC as is keeps pretty quiet during those tasks. Under Gaming or Handbrake load obviously things change and it gets pretty noisy but my temps stay well in the green. I figure under those 'load' times I can open the front door and/or remove the top panel to give it some extra air (if needed).

Main concern was quiet operation for 90% of them time, and that it can handle the heat during the other 10%.

I liked how configurable the R6 is, it looks pretty, and build quality is top notch. I'll post again when it arrives tomorrow.

P.S. appreciate the usage of the word 'Hogwash'.

My current 'idle' temps if anyone is interested:

 

[Karadjgne]

Lol,yes I'm no spring chicken. With a rear exhaust fan, and no other exhausts on top, you'd get better results keeping the panels on top. Fans will draw air from the nearest available source, so opening up the top vent just gives that rear exhaust a whole bunch of fresh air to draw from. With the top panels intact, that cpu fan/rear exhaust is forced to draw more from the case, supplied by the intakes. If you have a top exhaust as well, that'd be a little different, the fan forcing exhaust not allowing intake. It wouldn't affect cpu temps, much if any, but will affect other case temps slightly as the rear exhaust is slightly less effective. It's why even though a top intake right in front of the cpu fan sounds great, and you do get better cpu temps that way, it also redirects the case airflow, causing a circulatory pattern, which over extended periods of heavy use is detrimental to case temps in general, air is supposed to flow in/out, not round and round.

Load temps aren't much affected by case temps, not nearly as much as idle temps are. Just because load temps are way above what case temps usually run. Idle temps compared to ambient out of case temps are a good indicator of general airflow. Generally idle temps are @ 6-12°C above ambient, with decent airflow. If ambient are 23°C and idle temps are 40's, you have an airflow issue or a cpu load. Could be fan curves, lack of fans, pathetic fans, wrong fans etc. Most ppl at idle with a 23ish°C ambient will run low 30's. Of course with current versions of windows and all the excessive stuff it does in the background, even idle is hard to get, temps constantly bounce from 30ish to 50ish with apps opening, internet checks, windows store, etc.

 

[Darkbreeze]

While that is correct, I'll just add that to me there is nothing to see here, move along, unless as you say there is an idle temp above 40°C and usually when there is it is NOT an airflow issue, usually, it's USUALLY due to a poor mount/backplate issue of some kind, or a non-working/airlock pump in a loop.

Even without any fans at all, so long as there is a sufficiently sized heatsink that is properly mounted and thermal pasted (Proper TIM application, for purists) most systems should be capable of passively keeping full on idle temps below 40 degrees.

Obviously, airflow absolutely plays a role in that to some degree, especially in terms of being closer, rather than further away, from ambient.

 

[Noki0100]

Yeah, I just meant I would play around with configurations and see what's best, I'm a software tester by trade.

I idle closer to 15-20°C above ambient but my fan speeds are set very low. Also a GNU/Linux guy so no pesky Windows Services to deal with. You can see in the previous posts screen grab I'm in the 40's with Firefox running and Steam etc.

This is my 'under load' temps:

Noise-wise I'm only 5-10db above ambient (ambient being 4-8db) when under normal load / idle and hitting the 30-35db when I'm gaming etc.

New Fan has arrived, a new SSD and the case is arriving tomorrow

At this point I am done, aside from maybe posting an update with the build.

Thanks again with all your help, much appreciated!

 

[Darkbreeze]

So, I'll tell you like this, and I don't think there is much room for argument no matter WHO comes into the conversation, not that anybody with even a thimble full of experience with cooling systems would be inclined to anyhow,

but,

if the system being absolutely quiet is your biggest priority then there are not really any other choices than Noctua. Period. For ALL fans. I'd pull out every single fan in that case except the one inside the PSU, and replace it with a Noctua fan of whatever flavor you prefer. I personally am running NF-A14 fans in every location where a fan is installed which includes three front intakes, a rear exhaust, a top rear exhaust and two of them on my NH-U14S heatsink. The only exception is that these are the chromax,black.swap models of the NF-A14 AND that the rear exhaust is the NF-A14 chromax.black.swap iPPC 2000rpm model.

The fact that that fan has a higher RPM cap allows me to tune the system to where there is an almost even pressure differential and while the 2000rpm fans are much louder than the standard 1500rpm models, that is only at full speed where you expect fans to be louder anyhow. At idle this system makes almost zero sound sitting three away. At full load, obviously it's audible, but it's very tolerable and does not sound like a vacuum cleaner running like many systems do under full load. I do have the 2000rpm fan set to cap out at 1800rpm in it's fan curve because at 2000rpm it is simply too loud and annoying without headphones on. Fortunately it is RARELY ever necessary for it to maintain anything remotely close to full speed fan operation even when running heavy workloads like handbrake.

 

[Noki0100]

Oh man is this thing quiet!

I was expecting better performance under load but at both ends this case is leagues ahead of the Cosmos S.

I've only had it running for an hour now but already I'm amazed. Under normal use / idle it is a couple of DB quieter than the Cosmos, under load it barely got any louder. I kept an eye on temps too and even they are lower than before!

I imagine the Noctua fan on the CPU is also playing a big factor in that too.

The case looks amazing too, I wasn't sure about white but now it is here it is stunning. Build quality is impressive, and the cable management (never on of my strong suits) is stellar. Worth every penny.

Just wanted to say thanks again guys. Well and truly solved.

 

[Darkbreeze]

And THAT, is what we like to hear. Good job man. I'm glad it worked out well for you. I knew it would, but it's always nice to see. BTW, if you are inclined, you can post images of your new build here:

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