Question SSD Performance in RAID 0

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dgdunne

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Dec 9, 2016
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Hi everyone,

I wanted to get some speed increases in our main client edit system.

We already have a 960EVO SSD installed for caching and thought if we bought another we could stripe them together to RAID0. Would probably want to explore this before any M.2 storage due to costs.

What kind of speeds do you think I might get with the 2SSD striped together? Is there a site or something that can calculate this?

thanks
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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What kind of speeds? Worse speeds actually. If you want to increase speed, spend the money for NVME or PCI storage. RAID on SSD is even less appealing than it was on spinning discs.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-benchmark,3485-13.html


This mirrors my thoughts exactly, and if this is a professional use system the last thing you want is ANYTHING that might be a source of increased downtime.

So what do I have against RAID? I have no problem with the concept. The problem is that for 90% of the people out there, it isn't a good idea. Since high end enthusiast machines are some of our most common builds here at Puget, we frequently are asked to build machines with RAID when it doesn't make sense. I am here to say that those RAID configurations account for one of the biggest sources of frustration for our customers, as evidenced by the fact that they make up a very large portion of our support tickets. That is the root of my problem with RAID -- I see the frustrations it causes all the time. When I weigh that against the benefits of RAID, I just can't recommend it except in very select cases.

The underlying problem with RAID is the fact that by using it, you are making your computer significantly more complicated. Not only are you now relying on two hard drives to work properly, but you are also relying on a much more complicated controller (the RAID controller). If any one of those items has a problem, the array fails. If one hard drive has a problem even for a moment, you have a degraded array on your hands. At that point, you are relying on the RAID controller for error correction and array management, and the fact of the matter is that all (yes, all) RAID controllers onboard a motherboard are low quality. They have been added to the motherboard as an afterthought -- a feature added simply because the manufacturer knows that if they add any feature they can, they're more likely to sell their product. At at a time when nearly every modern motherboard has built in RAID, they have to offer it just to be considered as feature rich as their competitors.
Click to expand...

www.pugetsystems.com

Why RAID is (usually) a Terrible Idea

As president of Puget Custom Computers, I get a unique perspective on computer products and technology. Our company specializes in selling high performance custom computers, and that naturally brings up the question of RAID often. There is an overwhelming opinion out there that if you have the...
www.pugetsystems.com www.pugetsystems.com
 
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dgdunne

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Any write speeds 1G + is what I’m after. I was trying to avoid the M2 storage due to costs.

I don’t mind the complexity of a RAID as I’m down with that but you don’t think I’d get the speeds?
 
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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If you read that (Fairly inclusive and extensive) article I linked to from Tom's hardware's review of SSDs in RAID 0, I think you'll find your answer. There are a few niche situations where it MIGHT be beneficial, but overall, for most uses, I think you'll be wasting your money.

What size drives are we talking about? NVME storage has become almost on par with, and in some cases LESS expensive, than SATA SSDs lately.

You can get a 1TB PCI NVME M.2 drive for like 100 bucks now. Six months ago you could barely find a SATA 1TB drive for that price.
 
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Deleted member 14196

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RAID is not worth it for 99% of use cases. It’s for very specific uses for it, where it matters and for you you will get worse speed and more nightmare as mentioned above
 
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geofelt

geofelt

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What are the rest of your parts?

Production throughput will have some sort of limiting factor, usually cpu or I/O

On I/O:
While raid-0 of sata devices might theoretically increase sequential read speeds from perhaps 500MB/s to 1000, the write times may get worse performance since it now may take the updating of two nand blocks.

Pcie devices will transfer in the 2500mbps range.

And... m.2 is a size format, it comes in both sata and pcie flavors.
 
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mdd1963

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Darkbreeze said:
What kind of speeds? Worse speeds actually. If you want to increase speed, spend the money for NVME or PCI storage. RAID on SSD is even less appealing than it was on spinning discs.
Click to expand...

I'm confused...

He discussed getting another 960 EVO, which certainly is NVME storage...(unless it was edited afterward? Or perhaps misread as '860'?)

960 EVO is quite 'snappy' at pretty much everything even 2.5 years after it's introduction....love mine!
 
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dgdunne

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Dec 9, 2016
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Apologies, I meant the 860 Pro SSD. Not the 960. That little mistake set off a few comments!

We're not really getting bottlenecks but really just trying to get some better Write speeds. Read speeds are great at 1800Mbs. Something in that area for the Writes would be awesome.

Gear wise in this particular system we're running:

  • ASUS Prime Deluxe Mobo
  • Intel Core i9 2.8 GHz Processor
  • x2 EVGA 2080ti GPUs
  • x2 860 EVO (for Windows and seperate cache)
  • 128M 3200 Vengence RAM
  • 4K Decklink Card
  • TB3 ASUS PCie Card

I think the NVme storage might be the way to go from reading all of the above. Luckily the MOBO supports up to 3 NVme storages slots...

Thanks for all the articles and comments!
 
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dgdunne

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We run the systems through the Blackmagic Disk Speed app and the AJA Disk Speed app. Both are the industry standards for Editing disk speed tests.

Open to others if there are alternative suggestions.
 
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USAFRet

USAFRet

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I get that various benchmark tools can show uber results.
Even the Samsung RAPID Mode shows seriously large numbers.

By 'user facing'....how long does it take to copy data of size X? Faster, slower, or no difference with the RAID or cache?
How long does it take to perform some function? Game level, importing a couple of hundred RAW images, stuff like that.
Things people actually do.

Personally, I only add complexity when there is an actual benefit I can see.
 
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dgdunne

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Dec 9, 2016
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We don't have the NVme storage to compare - as this was tied to the original question. So it's difficult to run 'user facing' tests as mentioned above.

In the VFX and Editing Industries, using these Disk Speed apps is how we accurately represent time and speed.
 
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Darkbreeze

Darkbreeze

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He wasn't talking about comparing it to NVME storage I'm pretty sure.

I'm still confused though, because you SAY you are getting 1800MBps speeds on that drive, and yet that drive is only capable of 560/530 MBps per it's own specifications from Samsung.

I'm also confused still because initially you said you had a 960 EVO and now you say you have an 860 Pro. I find it incredibly hard to understand how you can confuse both the model and whether it is an EVO or Pro version, both. Seems, unusual, to me.
 
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dgdunne

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Dec 9, 2016
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Maybe I misread that. Not sure exactly what he meant there either...

Disk Speeds are coming through a TB3 connection to QNAP. My original question was about how I could get similar speeds with regards to striping the SSDs together in RAID0. Small typo with regards to the model number but from reading back over the posts it doesn't seem to complex to follow.

I think I have my answer with regards to some of the articles posted earlier. Thanks everyone!
 
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