News Startup Plans Nuclear-Powered Data Centers on the Moon

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Apr 22, 2022
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Starfish Prime was awesome. I wish I could have been at the meeting where someone said, "Let's set off some nukes in space, it'll be awesome!"

Is the ISS a good analog to the radiation environment that you would expect on the moon? I could be wrong but isn't the ISS close enough to Earth for the magnetosphere to most of the solar wind and other assorted charged particles whereas the moon doesn't have that benefit? It's always been somewhat fascinating to me how much extra goes into the hardware for meant to leave Earth. Reading about the effects of radiation on the systems installed on craft like Galileo and Juno so I'm curious. Is there a reason you're looking at SSDs rather than HDDs or other storage options?




It seems like accessing data on the moon would be somewhat difficult if this happens.


The ISS environment is proportionally less intense than outside of the Earth's magnetosphere. There is a measurement called "Geomagnetic cutoff rigidity". Below a certain value "rigidity cutoff energy" a particle sees the magnetic field as "rigid" meaning it can't penetrate. On the Earth, different parts of the Earth have different geomagnetic cutoff rigidities as well as different altitudes. For example, the highest geomagnetic cutoff rigidity on the surface of the Earth is 17 giga-electron volts (GeV) and at the south and north pole that number is 1 GeV. For every ten-x decrease in rigidity cutoff, there are 50x more particles of that energy.

in Low Earth Orbit (LEO), that energy is lower (lower means more particles) and there are variations. This is what the South Atlantic Anomaly is, which is an area of geomagnetic field weakness that allows more particles to lower altitudes. Its not that different from the Earth's surface. In geosynchronous orbit there is about 30% more particles than in LEO. At the Moon it is about 10-50x more particles. However, if you design for LEO conditions, that just means that you are 50x more likely to get a single event upset. That is no big deal if you have EDAC or ECC memory that can handle Single Event Upsets (SEU). Interestingly, with the advance in semiconductor tech, it is more likely to get an SEU on the Earth, than in low Earth orbit due to the fact that with the reduction in gate voltage (from 5 volts 25 years ago to 1 volt now), the energy required to upset a gate, has moved into the energy level of a muon. There are several orders of magnitude more muons than higher energy particles due to what is called "air showers" when galactic or solar cosmic rays hit the atmosphere and break up or cause fission in atmospheric particles (this is where carbon 14 comes from).

Thus your body is bathed in muons every second. When you are in an airplane you have 10x more muons. Go up in a private jet to 45,000 feet and you get another 40% more muons.

This is why you are seeing EDAC and ECC memories (DDR5 and DDR6) and fast GPU's implementing EDAC and ECC. Pay attention to the specs on high end computer memories and other parts. This helps to make space electronics better as they are now designed to accommodate radiation! For example, our Polarfire has EDAC on all the internal CPU registers and the internal FPGA has EDAC as well.

We are still looking at the issue and will take appropriate measures. For the future, one meter of regolith equals the Earth's atmosphere for protection.

Now go outside and get radiated by muons!

As for the second quote, yep, but it would be fully backed up. There are other ways of doing this on the Earth, and if we did not have crap for brains, we could solve this problem relatively inexpensively, and deal with the nuclear EMP problem at the same time.
 
Apr 22, 2022
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Moon period and orbit match at 27 days. So the same side is always facing us. The question is why? It's not like a geosync satellite that stays stationary. The time it is in line of sight constantly shifts. I still don't understand the purpose.

While I get putting the centers near the poles to control heating and cooling, there's a distinct issue with radiative heat and reduction in solar power generation.

As long as I see the sun, I get light, and thus power. 90 degrees from that and I am looking at the 4 degrees kelvin deep space heat sink and can radiate to my hearts content, heat.
 

jacob249358

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Seems like a few of you are space nerds so I got a question. If we could go to the moon in 1969 (nice) why arent we going more today considering we are light years ahead of the technology from that era
 
Seems like a few of you are space nerds so I got a question. If we could go to the moon in 1969 (nice) why arent we going more today considering we are light years ahead of the technology from that era
Simple. We went because the Soviets were planning to go and we wanted to beat them. Once we got there interest evaporated virtually overnight. The whole moon mission was more about politics than science.
 
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Seems like a few of you are space nerds so I got a question. If we could go to the moon in 1969 (nice) why arent we going more today considering we are light years ahead of the technology from that era

The moon was pretty much a game of one-upmanship of the soviet space program. It was a matter of national pride. So TREMENDOUS amounts of money were dumped into the program.

While the safety gone up, and cost/pound of cargo has considerably dropped, NASA's budget is a small fraction of what it used to be. Then you have to find a reason for going back to the moon.

The gov't realized after the "smaller, faster, cheaper" NASA days of the early 90's really didn't work out well. That 's when budgets bottomed out. That's when we had expensive failures like the mars probe crashing into mars. Even one of the projects I worked on got canceled because of technical glitches that could have been solved with a little more money. To give you an idea how cash strapped some of us were, we were using technical instruments with tubes and nixie tubes for readouts in 1993. You just grabbed and recycled equipment where you could find it.
 
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ien2222

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Simple. We went because the Soviets were planning to go and we wanted to beat them. Once we got there interest evaporated virtually overnight. The whole moon mission was more about politics than science.

This and the fact it was extremely expensive. The Apollo program was billions of dollars in 1960's money, one year it reached 6% of the federal budget. 6% of todays budget would be around 250-300 billion* in spending per year. Back then there was no foreseeable future where the costs of going to the Moon would come down to the point it could be justified, Apollo was about 1 Billion (in 1970 money) per launch. We're just hitting the point where the cost is low enough to where more concrete plans about say a Mars mission or setting up a lab on the Moon can be feasible.

Of course, all of that would be moot if the general public embraced space exploration/colonization and made it a priority for spending.

*(I'm discounting the covid reliefs of the past couple of years so the budget would most likely have been in the 4+ trillion instead of the 6+ that they had).
 

Eximo

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Seems like a few of you are space nerds so I got a question. If we could go to the moon in 1969 (nice) why arent we going more today considering we are light years ahead of the technology from that era

Advances in technology have made it cheaper but still not economically viable, so it really is still a government operation. Computers, sure, design technology sure, but rocket engines aren't really a matter of advances in science or technology, just engineering and physics. Rocket equation always applies, we only have so many feasible fuels and while engine styles can vary, they all have roughly the same output for a given fuel type and mission profile. Some of the recent innovations are things like carbon fiber and other all composite rocket bodies, but that is just a little weight savings. So while it is cheaper to launch a rocket today then it was back then, the same rules apply, same forces too. So it is just as hard to launch for the moon now as it was then is what I am getting at. Also recall that it was TWO Apollo launches per moon trip. One to carry the lander, and the other to carry the command module.

NASA's current moon mission is currently slated for a landing in 2025 with a test launch of the SLS Super Heavy in August 2022. They are pretty much sticking to the RS-25 which is the space shuttle's old main boosters, literally some that were launched on space shuttles. In addition to their solid rocket boosters with minimal changes. So basically, a little taller main fuel tank and taller solid rockets to get the delta V for a lunar insertion.
Space X also has moon launch capability in progress with the Starship, though the already vetted Falcon Heavy can just barely do an insertion if I recall. It was designed to get bulk into orbit, not fling things to the moon.

Current plans call for a semi-permanent space station around the moon and to have a lander launch from there. So they will re-use the lander multiple times and send fuel out with personnel. Lockheed won the contract to make the lander and one has already had a test flight.

What will be cool about these moon trips is going to be better communications technology, better cameras, etc.
 
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yeah, no, ONE Saturn 5 for every mission. as stated above me, there were never any dual Saturn 5 launches at one time ever in history.

that first stage was tremendously powerful

I remember being so concerned with the crew of Apollo 13. We prayed a lot for those guys and we all felt so much better when they made it back

That movie with Matt Daemon, The Martian gave me similar feelings but even worse. lol, all the while watching I am predicting the failures that can happen... holy moly,
 
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USAFRet

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Indeed. Was I conflating that with Mercury missions with rendezvous?
There were Gemini missions to test and prove the concept of rendezvous and docking.

Remember, this was all 100% brand new.
Can we actually get 2 spacecraft to link up?

This was to prep for doing the same with the moon missions. Linking the CSM and LEM before they left orbit, and then relinking the CSM and the Lunar ascent stage.

And there was a US/USSR docking as well.
 
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Apr 22, 2022
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USAFRet

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Seems like a few of you are space nerds so I got a question. If we could go to the moon in 1969 (nice) why arent we going more today considering we are light years ahead of the technology from that era
Politics and citizen interest.
After the first couple of moon landings, it mostly an "eh, so what?" from the public.

Absolutely no technical reason why not.

We have RC cars the size of an SUV, and a helicopter, on Mars.
 
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