News SteamOS Outperforms Windows On the Steam Deck

[Admin]

New tests revealed that Windows 10's performance falls short compared to Steam Deck's default SteamOS operating system.

SteamOS Outperforms Windows On the Steam Deck : Read more

 

[ezst036]

It's not entirely surprising. Windows has long been known both for being a heavier operating system, as well as over long periods of time people have shown repeatedly that Linux is faster.

Linux offers new opportunities for gamers. There are people out there looking to eke out every last frame they possibly can, and for those determined for the highest frame number, it'll be a question whether or not to ditch Windows and go with Linux.

Without getting too far into the weeds but staying well within Valve-land here, Valve created ACO shader compiler. While ACO is not the only example, it is one example of how an open source environment naturally leads to greater things and in particular, how these things can result in greater frames. Microsoft is all closed up.

 

[masterfu678]

Big win for Linux, yes, but not nessarily a win for Steam Deck. I have been using Linux since 2007, been using WINE just as long. Proton is what makes it possible for Steam Deck to run Windows games. It is same as WINE, because Valve collaborated with WINE development team, CodeWeavers, to make Proton, with the goal to bring more of your Steam Library to your Linux setup.

Since it is sharing the same code with WINE, Proton has the same flaw with WINE, like it will not run every single game in the Steam Library, unlike what Valve is advertising on their website for Steam Deck. It has its flaws. To check what game runs on Proton, and your Steam Deck, use ProtonDB, instead of the Steam Deck verification tool.

I will just say this, when a game does run on Proton, it will run better than on Windows. One example being the FF7 Remake Intergrade game, on a Nvidia RTX GPU. Here is reddit post for that
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/rij30u/final_fantasy_vii_remake_runs_faster_on_linux/


Basically, what it was saying was that this game running on Proton/WINE, had a maximum 120 fps, but with occasional stutter and frame rate drop. On Windows on the same machine, this game only topped to 60fps, but it is smooth, without any stutter or significant frame rate drops. This itself have to do with how WINE/Proton works to acts as a compatibility layer for Linux to translate code libraries meant for Windows for Linux to understand.

Finally, LTT is not a valid tech source to get your tech news or benchmark. Linus is your typical influencer, only cares about how much money he makes, and to advertise a brand and regurgitate corporate advertising jargon to make a product look good than it actually is. Not only that, sometimes he does things that he just don't know enough about, but pretended that he is the expert. For example, he totally butchered a test for IOMMU GPU passthrough for QEMU virtual machines, there are quite a few threads on Reddit about that. He was considered a disgrace in the IOMMU GPU passthrough community.

If he wanted to prove that Steam Deck can outperform other Windows PCs. He should had waited until Windows is ripe to be installed on Steam Deck, and then install Windows and run the bench marks from there. Proton/WINE cannot always use the hardware to the full potential.

 

[spongiemaster]

I will just say this, when a game does run on Proton, it will run better than on Windows. One example being the FF7 Remake Intergrade game, on a Nvidia RTX GPU. Here is reddit post for that
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/rij30u/final_fantasy_vii_remake_runs_faster_on_linux/


Basically, what it was saying was that this game running on Proton/WINE, had a maximum 120 fps, but with occasional stutter and frame rate drop. On Windows on the same machine, this game only topped to 60fps, but it is smooth, without any stutter or significant frame rate drops. This itself have to do with how WINE/Proton works to acts as a compatibility layer for Linux to translate code libraries meant for Windows for Linux to understand.

You claim LTT isn't a valid source for Linux, but based on this post, you aren't either. First of all, runs better is a subjective thing. I'd take a smooth 60FPS over a choppier 120FPS, and I'm sure I'm not alone on that one. Secondly, the information you gave is objectively inaccurate. The article referenced in the post you made says that the Windows 10 version averaged 94 fps with a 1% min of 84fps. This is a far cry from your claim that the Windows version tops out at 60FPS. The Linux version didn't average 120FPS either. It averaged 114fps. This number is important because of the update at the end of the article:

UPDATE, Friday Dec 17 @ 10:42am Eastern Switching the Windows 10 power plan to “Ryzen High Performance” and the RX 6800 XT to auto-overclock results in average framerate of 115 FPS. That puts it neck-and-neck with Fedora 35. Still mighty impressive.

This update which invalidates the whole article, really should be at the top of the article instead of the bottom. Anyway, the reality ends up being that the Windows versions averages a smooth 115fps while the Linux version averages a choppier 114fps. Windows runs better anyway you look at this.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Performance of many software is far greater on Linux than it is on windows. For instance Git runs like a bat out of hell on Linux and quite laggy on windows when downloading large repositories. After using Linux for a long time at work in virtual machines and seeing how everything runs so fast—especially the compilers I have really grown to love Linux

It is far more efficient and way faster at running most things especially games it would appear

 

[spongiemaster]

Performance of many software is far greater on Linux than it is on windows. For instance Got runs like a bat out of hell on Linux and quite laggy on windows when downloading large repositories. After using Linux for a long time at work in virtual machines and seeing how everything runs so fast—especially the compilers I have really grown to love Linux

It is far more efficient and way faster at running most things especially games it would appear

Definitely, Linux is almost always faster than Windows, especially for CPU bound tasks. Games, however, has never been an equal experience to Windows, and it still isn't.

 

[artk2219]

It's not entirely surprising. Windows has long been known both for being a heavier operating system, as well as over long periods of time people have shown repeatedly that Linux is faster.

Linux offers new opportunities for gamers. There are people out there looking to eke out every last frame they possibly can, and for those determined for the highest frame number, it'll be a question whether or not to ditch Windows and go with Linux.

Without getting too far into the weeds but staying well within Valve-land here, Valve created ACO shader compiler. While ACO is not the only example, it is one example of how an open source environment naturally leads to greater things and in particular, how these things can result in greater frames. Microsoft is all closed up.

Honestly it sounds like the Windows side just needs some driver development to improve things. That being said, the UI and general usability seems like its much better on SteamOS.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Steam OS will just get better and better

 

[watzupken]

This is hardly surprising. Windows is an obese OS, so much so that if you try and run Windows 10 or 11 on a mechanical drive, it is so slow, you would have thought the system is broken. The drive is getting hit with a lot of background tasks that it struggles. And not just the hard drive is struggling, but if you have a weaker/ older processor, you will likely feel the effects.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

You have to completely debloat win 10 to make it bearable

 

[ezst036]

Honestly it sounds like the Windows side just needs some driver development to improve things. That being said, the UI and general usability seems like its much better on SteamOS.

Agreed.

It is clear that much work can go into the drivers to get basic functionality on the level it needs to be. Some of these benchmarks are just ridiculously low. I'm as big of a Linux fanboy as the next, but I can also be realistic and realize that the current performance delta won't be this huge a year from now.(or I wouldn't expect it to be)

Over the long term of several years, I would expect Linux to start pulling ahead again. It's just the nature of the users and the whole platform to keep optimizing and optimizing. The commercial guys don't really care after a few years. They just cut and run - forced obsolescence.

 

[TerryLaze]

The commercial guys don't really care after a few years. They just cut and run - forced obsolescence.

That's not really true, especially for MS, you can still install and run games and apps from the 90ties on todays windows without any modification and they will run flawlessly as long as the devs followed all the rules.
AMD and Nvida have dropped semi newish hardware from driver support but that has nothing to do with linux/windows.

They do have to fight for your money though so that's why they are forced to bring out a new model even if the last one is still perfectly fine.

 

[Ogotai]

too bad linux isnt as simple to use as windows is. sure the " well just use linux " argument maybe be a good one, at the same time i sure cant see my mom, dad or wife using linux and being able to install anything, they are just not that good or know how to use a computer well enough to switch.

 

[mitch074]

too bad linux isnt as simple to use as windows is. sure the " well just use linux " argument maybe be a good one, at the same time i sure cant see my mom, dad or wife using linux and being able to install anything, they are just not that good or know how to use a computer well enough to switch.

Actually, I switched several older people to Linux. How does it go after the initial install?

1. "I want to do <insert task name> on my computer"
2. "install app <name of app>"
3. "How do I do that?"
4. "Open <distro's software store> and search for <name of app>."
5. "Oh! Found it. do I click Install?"
6. "Yes".
7. "Ok done !"
8. (waiting a couple minutes)
9. "Ok, I can do <insert task name> now!"

On Windows :

1. "I want to do <insert task name> on my computer"
2. "install app <name of app>"
3. "How do I do that?"
4. "Go to Google and search for 'download <name of app>'."
5. "I have many results. Which one do I take?"
6. "the one named after the app's editor. In your case, it's <name of app's editor>. Don't go to <name of mass download site with many loggers> nor to <name of fake website with download linkts to fake competitors that install many spywares>."
7. "Ok. I found a link. Now where do I download it?"
8. "Look for a download section."
9. "can't find it."
10. "wait a second, I'll send you a direct link."
11. (waiting a couple minutes for the person to open Skype, or its email client, or whatever) "I can't find it."
12. "check your spam."
13. "nope"
14. (sending again)
15. "Ok got it."
16. "click the link."
17. "I'm getting a warning."
18. "accept."
19. (waiting for the download to proceed)
20. "downloaded. now I double click it?"
21. "yes. Click OK on all steps except step 14 where it tries to install some adware."
22. "what step?"
23. "the one with the little checkbox saying "allow me to install <name of bundled adware>"
24. "oh - I already went past that."
25. "we'll remove it later."
26. "I'll finish the install"
27. (waiting a couple more minutes)
28. "done! But it's asking for my credit card's number."
29. "look for the small 'use free version' link at the bottom of the window. Click it."
30. "ok great! I can do <insert task name> now!
31. "let's clean up the adware first."

Remind me, which one is simpler?
Another simple task : print stuff. I had an example this morning:
On Linux:

1. click print.
2. wait for printer to wake up.
3. get a warning : "printer is out of paper".
4. get up and fetch new paper.
5. insert paper in printer.
6. see printer spool up.
7. wait for printed sheet.
8. get printed sheet.

On Windows:

1. click print.
2. wait for printer to wake up.
3. see app becoming unresponsive.
4. close app.
5. reopen app.
6. change default printer.
7. click print.
8. see app becoming unresponsive.
9. think "probably a bug in the app". Update app.
10. updated app needs a Windows reboot. Reboot Windows.
11. reopen app.
12. click print.
13. see app becoming unresponsive.
14. change app.
15. repeat steps 7 to 13.
16. check Windows printer : home printer is no longer default, but app still looks for it and hangs.
17. delete home printer.
18. click print.
19. see printer wake up.
20. wait for print.
21. still no print.
22. check : Windows has disabled printer because out of paper.
23. get up and fetch new paper.
24. insert paper in printer.
25. see printer spool up.
26. wait for printed sheet. Wait some more. Nothing.
27. Windows still considers that the printer is out of paper.
28. reboot Windows.
29. reopen app.
30. click print.
31. see printer spool up.
32. wait for printed sheet.
33. get printed sheet. Twice.

PLEASE TELL ME HOW WINDOWS IS EASIER TO USE THAN LINUX ?!

 

[TerryLaze]

On Windows :

1. "I want to do <insert task name> on my computer"
2. "install app <name of app>"
3. "How do I do that?"
4. "Go to Google and search for 'download <name of app>'."
5. "I have many results. Which one do I take?"
6. "the one named after the app's editor. In your case, it's <name of app's editor>. Don't go to <name of mass download site with many loggers> nor to <name of fake website with download linkts to fake competitors that install many spywares>."
7. "Ok. I found a link. Now where do I download it?"
8. "Look for a download section."
9. "can't find it."
10. "wait a second, I'll send you a direct link."
11. (waiting a couple minutes for the person to open Skype, or its email client, or whatever) "I can't find it."
12. "check your spam."
13. "nope"
14. (sending again)
15. "Ok got it."
16. "click the link."
17. "I'm getting a warning."
18. "accept."
19. (waiting for the download to proceed)
20. "downloaded. now I double click it?"
21. "yes. Click OK on all steps except step 14 where it tries to install some adware."
22. "what step?"
23. "the one with the little checkbox saying "allow me to install <name of bundled adware>"
24. "oh - I already went past that."
25. "we'll remove it later."
26. "I'll finish the install"
27. (waiting a couple more minutes)
28. "done! But it's asking for my credit card's number."
29. "look for the small 'use free version' link at the bottom of the window. Click it."
30. "ok great! I can do <insert task name> now!
31. "let's clean up the adware first."

Remind me, which one is simpler?

That's why they invented the windows store.
All the major apps that someone would need are there and there is only one version of it and it is direct download no searching for any buttons and no "malware" installer apps.

On Windows:

1. click print.
2. wait for printer to wake up.
3. see app becoming unresponsive.
4. close app.
5. reopen app.
6. change default printer.
7. click print.
8. see app becoming unresponsive.
9. think "probably a bug in the app". Update app.
10. updated app needs a Windows reboot. Reboot Windows.
11. reopen app.
12. click print.
13. see app becoming unresponsive.
14. change app.
15. repeat steps 7 to 13.
16. check Windows printer : home printer is no longer default, but app still looks for it and hangs.
17. delete home printer.
18. click print.
19. see printer wake up.
20. wait for print.
21. still no print.
22. check : Windows has disabled printer because out of paper.
23. get up and fetch new paper.
24. insert paper in printer.
25. see printer spool up.
26. wait for printed sheet. Wait some more. Nothing.
27. Windows still considers that the printer is out of paper.
28. reboot Windows.
29. reopen app.
30. click print.
31. see printer spool up.
32. wait for printed sheet.
33. get printed sheet. Twice.

PLEASE TELL ME HOW WINDOWS IS EASIER TO USE THAN LINUX ?!

Still better than having to compile the driver (or a new kernel) because the printer is not even recognized by linux.

You can have a terrible experience on either Os or an excellent one it depends on your luck.

 

[Ogotai]

Actually, I switched several older people to Linux. How does it go after the initial install?

1. "I want to do <insert task name> on my computer"
2. "install app <name of app>"
3. "How do I do that?"
4. "Open <distro's software store> and search for <name of app>."
5. "Oh! Found it. do I click Install?"
6. "Yes".
7. "Ok done !"
8. (waiting a couple minutes)
9. "Ok, I can do <insert task name> now!"

On Windows :

1. "I want to do <insert task name> on my computer"
2. "install app <name of app>"
3. "How do I do that?"
4. "Go to Google and search for 'download <name of app>'."
5. "I have many results. Which one do I take?"
6. "the one named after the app's editor. In your case, it's <name of app's editor>. Don't go to <name of mass download site with many loggers> nor to <name of fake website with download linkts to fake competitors that install many spywares>."
7. "Ok. I found a link. Now where do I download it?"
8. "Look for a download section."
9. "can't find it."
10. "wait a second, I'll send you a direct link."
11. (waiting a couple minutes for the person to open Skype, or its email client, or whatever) "I can't find it."
12. "check your spam."
13. "nope"
14. (sending again)
15. "Ok got it."
16. "click the link."
17. "I'm getting a warning."
18. "accept."
19. (waiting for the download to proceed)
20. "downloaded. now I double click it?"
21. "yes. Click OK on all steps except step 14 where it tries to install some adware."
22. "what step?"
23. "the one with the little checkbox saying "allow me to install <name of bundled adware>"
24. "oh - I already went past that."
25. "we'll remove it later."
26. "I'll finish the install"
27. (waiting a couple more minutes)
28. "done! But it's asking for my credit card's number."
29. "look for the small 'use free version' link at the bottom of the window. Click it."
30. "ok great! I can do <insert task name> now!
31. "let's clean up the adware first."

Remind me, which one is simpler?
Another simple task : print stuff. I had an example this morning:
On Linux:

1. click print.
2. wait for printer to wake up.
3. get a warning : "printer is out of paper".
4. get up and fetch new paper.
5. insert paper in printer.
6. see printer spool up.
7. wait for printed sheet.
8. get printed sheet.

On Windows:

1. click print.
2. wait for printer to wake up.
3. see app becoming unresponsive.
4. close app.
5. reopen app.
6. change default printer.
7. click print.
8. see app becoming unresponsive.
9. think "probably a bug in the app". Update app.
10. updated app needs a Windows reboot. Reboot Windows.
11. reopen app.
12. click print.
13. see app becoming unresponsive.
14. change app.
15. repeat steps 7 to 13.
16. check Windows printer : home printer is no longer default, but app still looks for it and hangs.
17. delete home printer.
18. click print.
19. see printer wake up.
20. wait for print.
21. still no print.
22. check : Windows has disabled printer because out of paper.
23. get up and fetch new paper.
24. insert paper in printer.
25. see printer spool up.
26. wait for printed sheet. Wait some more. Nothing.
27. Windows still considers that the printer is out of paper.
28. reboot Windows.
29. reopen app.
30. click print.
31. see printer spool up.
32. wait for printed sheet.
33. get printed sheet. Twice.

PLEASE TELL ME HOW WINDOWS IS EASIER TO USE THAN LINUX ?!

nice try, but unless linux has changed in the last few years, your " steps " for each, are back wards, and you are also forgetting the part of having to use " /make " i think it was, 1st, in order to install anything.

your parts about getting the app, also false, my mom, dad and wife have no issues with that, as i have set things up so it is easy for them to find things they D/L and install, both where D/L's go, and how to put them there.
printing things, takes them 5 steps, even installing things they already had installed from a previous install of windows, easy. click ONE file, it installs, no need to do any configuration, or anything other then telling it where to install.

i think you have highly exaggerated your point, to make it appear linux is easier, when it is not, IF it was, then more people would be using it, at this time, i know of only 2 maybe 3 people that have any form of linux distro installed, and they all, also have windows installed as well.

i still can't see my mom, dad, or wife using linux at all, for them, its just complicated and confusing with all you need to do ( which you seem to have left out ) just to do something that is a few clicks on windows.

 

[mitch074]

nice try, but unless linux has changed in the last few years, your " steps " for each, are back wards, and you are also forgetting the part of having to use " /make " i think it was, 1st, in order to install anything.

your parts about getting the app, also false, my mom, dad and wife have no issues with that, as i have set things up so it is easy for them to find things they D/L and install, both where D/L's go, and how to put them there.
printing things, takes them 5 steps, even installing things they already had installed from a previous install of windows, easy. click ONE file, it installs, no need to do any configuration, or anything other then telling it where to install.

i think you have highly exaggerated your point, to make it appear linux is easier, when it is not, IF it was, then more people would be using it, at this time, i know of only 2 maybe 3 people that have any form of linux distro installed, and they all, also have windows installed as well.

i still can't see my mom, dad, or wife using linux at all, for them, its just complicated and confusing with all you need to do ( which you seem to have left out ) just to do something that is a few clicks on windows.

• I haven't had to use "make" to install anything since 2009, apart from a very specific piece of software to monitor a quirky CPL module I dealt with last month. Dev work doesn't count because as said, it's dev work. I had to look through many websites before I could find similar software for that same module under Windows, running 'make' was actually faster than downloading 5 different pieces of 15 years old software and trying them one after the other.
• You had to teach them the steps, but they still have to go through them. I didn't have to teach the 80 years old former Vista user much apart from what the app store looks like. He's been happy as a clam ever since.
• I have to manage a park of 20 Windows machines at my workplace. Printing problems are frequent, even more so since Windows 10 1903 revamped the printing system - and broke it all down completely. The event I described is the step by step I had to go through yesterday morning to get a sheet of stickers printed. The few Linux machines I have on that network NEVER bother me for a print, be it at home or at work : I click "print", choose the required printer, and wait for results.
• My wife uses Linux every time she fires up the media center : press "enter" to log in, click on the desired movie, watch. Our 70 years old neighbor, who browses the web sometimes and wants to watch the pictures he took with his phone, has been a happy user since 2015. I get a call once every 2 years to help him install the latest LTS through remote access, that's all.

I didn't have to exaggerate - it's what happens to me, and I've been a computer user since 1990.
I've used ALL Microsoft operating systems since MS-DOS 3.20 up to 6.22, Windows 2, Windows 3.0, 3.11, NT4, 95, 98, Me, 2000, XP, Vista (eugh), 7, 8 (re-ugh), 8.1, 10 (all sub-releases since 2015) and 11, including some RCs and betas. I've also run Slackware, OpenSUSE, Mandrake/Mandriva, Puppy, Debian (from 6 onward), Ubuntu, CentOS. That, and a few other alternate OS on other platforms.
For everyday use, a good Linux desktop distro is far less annoying than Windows. Provided your software runs on it (it used to be a huge caveat, much less so nowadays), it's faster, more nimble than Windows, with less quirks. That leaves games (I used to play WoW on Linux in 2011, that was a drag), and things have steadily gotten better for the last decade, mainly thanks to Valve actually - so much so that I stopped setting up my system with a dual boot in 2018, after noticing that I only booted Windows to download the latest updates - which took an hour and a couple reboots even with a SSD.

The only caveat under Linux is, don't use Nvidia hardware - they have lousy drivers, always had ever since they decided they wouldn't publish open drivers anymore (and obfuscate the ones they had) in 2006. Before then, I only had Nvidia GPUs, they were terrific on all OSes. That changed when the RadeonHD 4850 came out (THG's recommendation $100 card for two and a half years straight).

 

[mitch074]

That's why they invented the windows store.
All the major apps that someone would need are there and there is only one version of it and it is direct download no searching for any buttons and no "malware" installer apps.

Still better than having to compile the driver (or a new kernel) because the printer is not even recognized by linux.

You can have a terrible experience on either Os or an excellent one it depends on your luck.

The what? Windows store? good luck finding your app in there. Also good luck installing the software on a disk where you actually have room if you have more than C;\, and without having to create a Microsoft account first.
I never had to compile a printer driver for Linux - they are all managed in user space by cups, meaning that at worst I only need to restart the cups service if by any chance the driver wasn't already present on my machine. Unlike Windows, where a hung printing service will need a system reboot and actually caused a PC to BSOD a couple times. cups never once triggered a kernel panic in 15 years.
I haven't had to recompile a kernel in years - that stopped when Linux got modular, back in 2.2, and after that I only did so because I wanted the extra 20% performance improvement compiling a kernel for 686+MMX+SSE+4Gb RAM support brought my system when compared with the "generic 586" build my distro provided at the time. Since I switched to 64-bit back in 2006, I haven't bothered.
When you need to compile a driver manually (which is fringe cases, most drivers that need recompiling use dkms instead and can usually be found on a private repo if you really need the very latest build instead of the one curated by your distro), you do so, make install, and load it (sudo modprobe name-of-module). Done. You also directly get system feedback that the module loaded properly or not, instead of a crashed OS and the need to boot in Safe Mode to try and guess what went wrong. Like the last time I tried to install an old driver for an old device in Windows.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Windows fans love to spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt about Linux

Which means that they don’t actually use it they just like to crab about it

stop the FUD. Use Linux.

 

[TerryLaze]

The what? Windows store? good luck finding your app in there. Also good luck installing the software on a disk where you actually have room if you have more than C;\, and without having to create a Microsoft account first.

No, good luck finding what you need on the packet manager because if you don't find it you have to add repositories which brings you back to not everything being 100% compatible again.
If you have to resort to find something on the internet you can forget about talking anybody through it on linux, on windows it might be hard but it is possible.
Why would you want to confuse older people with multiple partitions?
You have to enter your admin credentials on linux to install anything as well.

 

[ezst036]

That's not really true, especially for MS, you can still install and run games and apps from the 90ties on todays windows without any modification and they will run flawlessly as long as the devs followed all the rules.

True, yes. On the non-driver WIN16/WIN32 software side,(and even DOS) Microsoft strives very hard to keep backward compatibility in working order.

 

[Ogotai]

Windows fans love to spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt about Linux

Which means that they don’t actually use it they just like to crab about it

stop the FUD. Use Linux.

the same thing can be said about linux fans and windows, case in point, your list of steps it takes to install things in windows, whats your point ?
while YOU may find linux easy to use, others may not.

i showed your " lists " to a friend at work, which also uses linux, and he said the lists you made, are mostly FUD as well. so again nice try.

The event I described is the step by step I had to go through yesterday morning to get a sheet of stickers printed

then that sounds like something is wrong with your system, as i havent had to go though all that just to print something, and this it IS possible to have a printer that has more then one paper tray, again adding in steps, that are not needed, to make it look worse then it is.
keep in mind not every one " uses an app store " to install things, you DO know you are able to go directly to the web page that has the program you need, and get it from there correct ? seems like you are just using this, as an excuse to make windows seem worse then it is.

if linux is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better then windows as you claim, then explain why its still mostly a niche OS, used mostly by enthusiasts, and the like ?

 

[Deleted member 14196]

It’s because most people are LAZY and NOT too smart. And they generally lack the skills to use Google or a good search engine now go away and bother somebody else. Also I didn’t make those lists— So you should really learn how to readproperly.

Just because everybody isnt capable of using doesn’t mean I have to be. That is the one and only reason people don’t use it they are lazy and they don’t want to learn
.
But you go right ahead and keep using that fat bloated operating system that spies on you constantly

 

[mitch074]

No, good luck finding what you need on the packet manager because if you don't find it you have to add repositories which brings you back to not everything being 100% compatible again.
If you have to resort to find something on the internet you can forget about talking anybody through it on linux, on windows it might be hard but it is possible.
Why would you want to confuse older people with multiple partitions?
You have to enter your admin credentials on linux to install anything as well.

• I didn't say "package manager", I said application store - between packages, snaps, and other distribution format, going through the package manager is a pain.
• As to finding something on the Internet for Linux : "I'm sending you some command lines, open a terminal window, copy them, hit enter and put in your password when asked to - this time it's ok" did work perfectly the last time I used it with a 80 years old non-tech guy. On the other hand, downloading a .exe, having a warning from the antivirus, finding where it's been downloaded (it may not end up in the Downloads folder), then double-clicking it and going through all the install screens... More steps, more complexity, more "I give up" from the non-tech users.
• not multiple partitions - multiple drives. Case in point : cheapo PC with a very small SSD. Said SSD is full. User gets an extra disk and plugs it into the system. Windows store : can't make use of new disk.
• entering your credentials on Linux : yeah, it's a safety measure. All the non-tech people asked me about it, my answer : "if it's asking for your password, then it needs to do something important. If you didn't ask for it, don't type your password." Much more simple and at the same time more efficient than UAC.

 

[mitch074]

the same thing can be said about linux fans and windows, case in point, your list of steps it takes to install things in windows, whats your point ?
while YOU may find linux easy to use, others may not.

i showed your " lists " to a friend at work, which also uses linux, and he said the lists you made, are mostly FUD as well. so again nice try.


then that sounds like something is wrong with your system, as i havent had to go though all that just to print something, and this it IS possible to have a printer that has more then one paper tray, again adding in steps, that are not needed, to make it look worse then it is.
keep in mind not every one " uses an app store " to install things, you DO know you are able to go directly to the web page that has the program you need, and get it from there correct ? seems like you are just using this, as an excuse to make windows seem worse then it is.

if linux is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better then windows as you claim, then explain why its still mostly a niche OS, used mostly by enthusiasts, and the like ?

Do you know what "FUD" is? It means "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt" - my "lists" are the ones I encounter pretty much daily when dealing with non-tech users. Your Linux user at work may work in servers and/or use a power user distro like Arch - installing such a distro on a non-tech user desktop is STUPID. Stick with Ubuntu or Pop!_OS for such profiles.
Why is Linux a niche OS? It's not - case in point, Android. If you mean, "niche desktop OS" : because Windows is preinstalled everywhere. Remember that, using the same metrics, Mac OS is also a niche OS. It, however, has a polished user experience, provided you're using Apple hardware and accessories (or Apple-approved stuff) with it, with cash spent by a very prosperous company on making sure it is so. Without the iPhone though, Apple would have gone under years ago. Also, try playing AAA games on MacOS. I dare you.

When dealing with non tech user, you have to remember : they don't know Windows. You do, so things on Windows seem simpler to you. You obviously don't know Linux, so you're outside your comfort zone - it's harder. They are ALWAYS outside their comfort zone. Less steps means it's better. you can streamline things in Linux. Doing the same on Windows? When's the last time you tried your had at Powershell?