News SteamOS Outperforms Windows On the Steam Deck

[Deleted member 14196]

Yes due to their predatory practices Microsoft ihas made sure that it gets preinstalled on just about everything. Acting like it’s some virtue of windows is absolutely wrong.

And having to include your password is the best security feature in the world. Windows UAC is the stupidest implementation I’ve ever seen if not the MOST annoying with that retarded pop up window. It has tons of complexity for no benefit. Like I said before people are lazy and they don’t like to change— And that is the real reason why it’s not used by more people on desktops

 

[TerryLaze]

• I didn't say "package manager", I said application store - between packages, snaps, and other distribution format, going through the package manager is a pain.

Yeah sounds very simple, so you have an app manager an app store and the internet to worry about.

• As to finding something on the Internet for Linux : "I'm sending you some command lines, open a terminal window, copy them, hit enter and put in your password when asked to - this time it's ok" did work perfectly the last time I used it with a 80 years old non-tech guy. On the other hand, downloading a .exe, having a warning from the antivirus, finding where it's been downloaded (it may not end up in the Downloads folder), then double-clicking it and going through all the install screens... More steps, more complexity, more "I give up" from the non-tech users.

If you already know the internet addresses you can do the same with windows msi packages they even have a /quiet option to not bother the user.
If it will trigger the anti virus depends on how well behaved the software is, just choose a good one, having a badly behaving linux app not trigger an anti virus warning is also not the best thing in the world.

• not multiple partitions - multiple drives. Case in point : cheapo PC with a very small SSD. Said SSD is full. User gets an extra disk and plugs it into the system. Windows store : can't make use of new disk.

So how do you get a linux app that needs to install on a specific folder on the main drive (in your linux installation) to install on a different drive?
Also you can change the default save point for the windows store, it's "hidden" but you can do it.

How to Change The Windows Store Download Location

Microsoft is releasing major games to the Windows Store, and that could lead to issues if you don't know how to change the Windows Store download location.

www.thedigitalmediazone.com

• entering your credentials on Linux : yeah, it's a safety measure. All the non-tech people asked me about it, my answer : "if it's asking for your password, then it needs to do something important. If you didn't ask for it, don't type your password." Much more simple and at the same time more efficient than UAC.

So is the windows sign it, it makes sure that only you, the certified user of this system, makes changes to it.

 

[TerryLaze]

Yes due to their predatory practices Microsoft ihas made sure that it gets preinstalled on just about everything. Acting like it’s some virtue of windows is absolutely wrong.

And having to include your password is the best security feature in the world. Windows UAC is the stupidest implementation I’ve ever seen if not the MOST annoying with that retarded pop up window. It has tons of complexity for no benefit. Like I said before people are lazy and they don’t like to change— And that is the real reason why it’s not used by more people on desktops

The equivalent for windows is to run either a cmd or powershell with elevated rights and do whatever they want there.
The UAC is for total noobs that don't know anything about computing or security, they get a nice big warning that they can't ignore that tells them that there is danger.

While on linux somebody tells them to do sudo "delete all your system" and they do it because there is no warning from linux.

 

[mitch074]

Yeah sounds very simple, so you have an app manager an app store and the internet to worry about.

If you already know the internet addresses you can do the same with windows msi packages they even have a /quiet option to not bother the user.
If it will trigger the anti virus depends on how well behaved the software is, just choose a good one, having a badly behaving linux app not trigger an anti virus warning is also not the best thing in the world.

So how do you get a linux app that needs to install on a specific folder on the main drive (in your linux installation) to install on a different drive?
Also you can change the default save point for the windows store, it's "hidden" but you can do it.

How to Change The Windows Store Download Location

Microsoft is releasing major games to the Windows Store, and that could lead to issues if you don't know how to change the Windows Store download location.

www.thedigitalmediazone.com

So is the windows sign it, it makes sure that only you, the certified user of this system, makes changes to it.

• You're the one mentioning the package manager. I only mentioned the app store. You're making it complex when it isn't.
• Not all Windows software come with MSI packages. Most only have an .exe installer, so my objection stands.
• No packaged Linux software EVER needed a specific drive letter (source code ones either, but I'll keep it easy) - Linux doesn't use drives, and in the very strange case where it would need a specific path you can rather easily mount a partition in a directory, or create a symbolic link (not that I ever had the case). No "C:" drive silliness, also Windows symbolic links cause bugs in Windows core utilities, so no, you can't really use them on Windows.
• Windows apps expect the user account to have admin privileges, even if hidden behind UAC. Linux apps expect the user account to NOT be admin. Having tried to live with 2 Windows accounts : an admin and an user, is HELL.

 

[mitch074]

The equivalent for windows is to run either a cmd or powershell with elevated rights and do whatever they want there.
The UAC is for total noobs that don't know anything about computing or security, they get a nice big warning that they can't ignore that tells them that there is danger.

While on linux somebody tells them to do sudo "delete all your system" and they do it because there is no warning from linux.

• cmd is archaic and only offers basic tools and basic helps - no man pages, core command syntax and help often include bad translations... Use it when you have no choice. Powershell is a nice try, but overly complex and badly documented. Version 2 is a bit better, but not all apps have CLI parameters or options.
• UAC is a bad solution to a very bad problem : Windows apps always expect to have admin rights even when they don't. So UAC tries to determine when it should prompt for privilege elevation, or when it can let things go through unannounced. Using a limited user account on Windows is downright painful.
• You can destroy your system on Windows too - Linux will prompt to ask if you're sure, Windows will gladly destroy it - if you're on the CLI as admin, it means you know what you're doing, right? Try the command mbr2gpt /disk:0 /convert /allowfullos on a PC that's running in Legacy mode because its UEFI implementation is dodgy : bye-bye Windows !

 

[Old Molases]

It's not entirely surprising. Windows has long been known both for being a heavier operating system, as well as over long periods of time people have shown repeatedly that Linux is faster.

Linux offers new opportunities for gamers. There are people out there looking to eke out every last frame they possibly can, and for those determined for the highest frame number, it'll be a question whether or not to ditch Windows and go with Linux.

Without getting too far into the weeds but staying well within Valve-land here, Valve created ACO shader compiler. While ACO is not the only example, it is one example of how an open source environment naturally leads to greater things and in particular, how these things can result in greater frames. Microsoft is all closed up.

Agreed, but dont you think when it comes driver updates for GPUs Linux is neglected?

 

[ezst036]

Agreed, but dont you think when it comes driver updates for GPUs Linux is neglected?

Not really, no.

Intel seems to have everything all buttoned up with its open source drivers so that when Arc is released everything will just work on day-one. Will they fail? Possibly. We can only wait and see.

AMD mostly had the RX 6000 series drivers ready in their open source drivers. From what I remember it wasn't day-one, but it didn't take them very long and a few revisions to get things right.

Nvidia's drivers are superb. I personally wouldn't ever use them because it's a pain doing the install and they cause problems doing routine updates.(xorg/wayland, kernel, etc) but Nvidia to their credit does work very hard on their drivers and overall are supportive on day one when new products are released.

Having an open source driver base(Intel and AMD anyways), Linux is better on older hardware. It wasn't all that long ago that some driver updates were talked about around here for being made for really old hardware without official help of the parent company.

Intel and AMD are routinely hiring new developers for drivers (as is Red Hat) and I'm sure Nvidia is too. Valve I think also employs a handful of driver developers, since there are open source stacks. So where the drivers are at today, are only going to keep accelerating.

 

[mitch074]

Agreed, but dont you think when it comes driver updates for GPUs Linux is neglected?

Not really, no.

Intel seems to have everything all buttoned up with its open source drivers so that when Arc is released everything will just work on day-one. Will they fail? Possibly. We can only wait and see.

AMD mostly had the RX 6000 series drivers ready in their open source drivers. From what I remember it wasn't day-one, but it didn't take them very long and a few revisions to get things right.

Nvidia's drivers are superb. I personally wouldn't ever use them because it's a pain doing the install and they cause problems doing routine updates.(xorg/wayland, kernel, etc) but Nvidia to their credit does work very hard on their drivers and overall are supportive on day one when new products are released.

Having an open source driver base(Intel and AMD anyways), Linux is better on older hardware. It wasn't all that long ago that some driver updates were talked about around here for being made for really old hardware without official help of the parent company.

Intel and AMD are routinely hiring new developers for drivers (as is Red Hat) and I'm sure Nvidia is too. Valve I think also employs a handful of driver developers, since there are open source stacks. So where the drivers are at today, are only going to keep accelerating.

Intel very recently solved their Linux driver woes - as in, they had a driver outside of Gallium that was supposed to handle all their generations. Result is, their driver was buggy as heck. Right now, they split it up and integrated the latest one into Gallium - got much better very quickly, so yeah.
AMD was bad. Ati was good. Both together took years to get their crap together. When they did though , hooo boy...
As for Nvidia, as I said before, Their driver used to be great. Then closed source (but still great). Now they're an afterthought and lagging behind in features.

 

[Ogotai]

It’s because most people are LAZY and NOT too smart. And they generally lack the skills to use Google or a good search engine now go away and bother somebody else.
Just because everybody isnt capable of using doesn’t mean I have to be. That is the one and only reason people don’t use it they are lazy and they don’t want to learn

ahh, so ANYONE that doest use linux, is stupid and lazy ? wow, get off your high horse.

Also I didn’t make those lists— So you should really learn how to readproperly.

that should of been other the next quote, just placed it in the wrong spot, no need to be rude and unsulting, but considering the quote above, doesnt surprise me that you are.

But you go right ahead and keep using that fat bloated operating system that spies on you constantly

dont worry i will, cause i dont wear a tin foil hat.

Do you know what "FUD" is?

yes i do, as well as BS, and thats what your lists are, BS, and over exaggerated. IF you really deal with that on a daily basis, then there is something wrong.

Your Linux user at work may work in servers and/or

acutally he uses ubuntu, as well as a couple i cant rememeber right now, and like i said, your lists are BS

When dealing with non tech user, you have to remember : they don't know Windows. You do, so things on Windows seem simpler to you.

ha, i think you just described your self, as i said above, if that fake windows " list " is what you deal with daily, then the issue is not windows, its you. a non tech user, would be pretty lost in linux.

You obviously don't know Linux, so you're outside your comfort zone - it's harder. They are ALWAYS outside their comfort zone. Less steps means it's better. you can streamline things in Linux. Doing the same on Windows? When's the last time you tried your had at Powershell?

actually i do, just dont use it any more windows does what i need to do just as well, with less setting up and tinkering. powershell ? yea, while i can use it, thats a bit too much for some..

BTW, you STILL havent explain why and what makes linux SOOOOOO much better then windows that i have seen. but what ever, just shows you cant back up your claims as to how much better linux is.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

What a salty, childish and churlish set of responses. I am truly disappointed in you. So you say you’re not concerned with all the spying and this somehow makes those of us that are wearers of tinfoil hats?

You’re someone who likes to be taken advantage of apparently. And you also like the fact that they’re constantly running diagnostics on you and using your hardware and your bandwidth for their own purposes. I buy a PC so I can run programs on it and do what I wanna do on it not some damn company deciding they’re going to use my hardware to do their work for them and supply them with diagnostics all day while I’m using it.

Now please go away and stop the childish remarks

in my opinion people who are not concerned with their own privacy on any level are completely foolish. The fact that you may not have anything that they wish to steal or use is immaterial. The fact that they’re doing it is what’s wrong and the fact that they can use this data to bombard you with constant advertisements and all kinds of other crap that you don’t want and didn’t ask for.

Going along with the abuse and accepting it is just being a sheep

 

[mitch074]

BTW, you STILL havent explain why and what makes linux SOOOOOO much better then windows that i have seen. but what ever, just shows you cant back up your claims as to how much better linux is.

I made a couple lists but you don't believe me because "a friend" told you.
Well, I reproduced this :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T_-HMkgxt0

And this is more than a year old.

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Why bother at this point. If he wishes to remain on the ignorant side then I guess he will always suffer for it

A very important lesson was taught to us in college by our calculus professor. He said never trust anyone and always solve things and figure things out yourself. So these people are too lazy to figure things out for themselves so they would rather listen to some guy then to listen to the people who actually use it on a day-to-day basis for things like programming and software development arena

But thinking for yourself is wearing a tinfoil hat I guess in this guys opinion 😂

If all you do is play games then I guess windows is good enough but for those of us who need more performance in the real world for real Applications and for software development there’s no other choice

 

[TerryLaze]

I made a couple lists but you don't believe me because "a friend" told you.
Well, I reproduced this :

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T_-HMkgxt0

And this is more than a year old.

Yeah, but don't forget that he also managed to destroy his linux install by just trying to install steam on it.

View: https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=606

 

[Deleted member 14196]

Yeah so? He’s kind of a noob at it but he’s learning

You know, it’s how most people learn, they make mistakes and don’t tell me nobody’s ever made a mistake with windows before. This formum is full of people who break their windows installation every single day

 

[mitch074]

Yeah, but don't forget that he also managed to destroy his linux install by just trying to install steam on it.

View: https://youtu.be/0506yDSgU7M?t=606

He disregarded an error message ; he admitted himself during and after he destroyed his system that YOLO.
On top of that, his system wasn't destroyed; a pair of command lines would have repaired it good as new (and up to date) with no data loss. He didn't look for the commands and preferred switching distro instead. That's like hunting flies with a rocket launcher.
I once broke a Ubuntu install in a similar manner, due to broken dependencies; after looking it up, it took me a single command to restore it to a clean working state (sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop).
On the other hand, I remember the day Windows XP SP3 came out and broke most OEM PC installs because an AMD driver entry was left on the source clone image and was merely disabled by deleting the file on Intel systems; when SP3 came out and installed itself, fixing the missing file at the same time, all these PCs would BSOD and boot loop. Most people had no other choice but to reformat and reinstall. Techies had to connect to the system using a liveCD (usually Linux) to delete the driver's file and then proceed with a clan removal of the registry entry. And since I had a similar problem this morning with a Windows 10 image using AMD drivers and running on an Intel system, this is still a probem.

 

[TerryLaze]

Yeah so? He’s kind of a noob at it but he’s learning

You know, it’s how most people learn, they make mistakes and don’t tell me nobody’s ever made a mistake with windows before. This formum is full of people who break their windows installation every single day

He disregarded an error message ; he admitted himself during and after he destroyed his system that YOLO.

That's what we already talked about, on linux the warning that can destroy your GUI is not any different from the warning you get when renaming a file extension or something.
It doesn't help you much that you can re install the same or any other front end if you don't know that you can do that, you can't find out after it happened to you in cmd (unless you are a super pro maybe) and there is no reason for you to know or search about it beforehand.

So for a normal user after "destroying" the install a couple of times within a week, by something as simple as installing a super safe app like steam from the official app store, it's uninstall time because why should anybody in 2022 have to deal with that kind of a mess.

And since I had a similar problem this morning with a Windows 10 image using AMD drivers and running on an Intel system, this is still a probem.

So how would a broken image with wrong drivers manage to work on linux?
If it had a driver that would cause a crash how would linux not crash?

 

[mitch074]

That's what we already talked about, on linux the warning that can destroy your GUI is not any different from the warning you get when renaming a file extension or something.
It doesn't help you much that you can re install the same or any other front end if you don't know that you can do that, you can't find out after it happened to you in cmd (unless you are a super pro maybe) and there is no reason for you to know or search about it beforehand.

So for a normal user after "destroying" the install a couple of times within a week, by something as simple as installing a super safe app like steam from the official app store, it's uninstall time because why should anybody in 2022 have to deal with that kind of a mess.


So how would a broken image with wrong drivers manage to work on linux?
If it had a driver that would cause a crash how would linux not crash?

Esay level : edit grub launch parameters to ignore the faulty module. Once booted, uninstall faulty module. Done.
Moderate level : many distros now come with a limited user space if for some reason you can't edit grub. Remove driver. Done.
Hard level : boot from a Live USB of your distribution. Change the root to your broken system's. Fix it. Reboot. Done.
Good luck doing that on Windows, as you can't uninstall drivers in Safe Mode, the Repair option is extremely barebone, and launching a system reset from a non-local OS won't work.

 

[TerryLaze]

Esay level : edit grub launch parameters to ignore the faulty module. Once booted, uninstall faulty module. Done.
Moderate level : many distros now come with a limited user space if for some reason you can't edit grub. Remove driver. Done.
Hard level : boot from a Live USB of your distribution. Change the root to your broken system's. Fix it. Reboot. Done.
Good luck doing that on Windows, as you can't uninstall drivers in Safe Mode, the Repair option is extremely barebone, and launching a system reset from a non-local OS won't work.

Oh, so it's not linux that is better at dealing with a bad image it's that the user has to deal with it...

Windows installations have been images since windows 7 and you can use dism to remove drivers from them, if you have the knowledge of which driver is bad, which you would have to do that in linux, then you can use DISM and do the same for windows.
(Extra info, your online windows can become an offline image by taking an image of that installation, working on that and applying it back)
Before that I think things like NTlite could remove drivers from an windows installation iso, and can still do it for modern windows.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...s-to-an-offline-windows-image?view=windows-11

 

[mitch074]

Oh, so it's not linux that is better at dealing with a bad image it's that the user has to deal with it...

Windows installations have been images since windows 7 and you can use dism to remove drivers from them, if you have the knowledge of which driver is bad, which you would have to do that in linux, then you can use DISM and do the same for windows.
(Extra info, your online windows can become an offline image by taking an image of that installation, working on that and applying it back)
Before that I think things like NTlite could remove drivers from an windows installation iso, and can still do it for modern windows.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...s-to-an-offline-windows-image?view=windows-11

Have you tried using DISM? It's a pain in the butt. As for Windows using images, it's an expensive fix to their classic Dependency Hell - the thing that caused Windows Update to hang all the time.
Most Linux package managers deal with their dependencies properly, as such there is no need for images on Linux - not that the system can't handle them, it's just not needed.

 

[TerryLaze]

Have you tried using DISM? It's a pain in the butt. As for Windows using images, it's an expensive fix to their classic Dependency Hell - the thing that caused Windows Update to hang all the time.
Most Linux package managers deal with their dependencies properly, as such there is no need for images on Linux - not that the system can't handle them, it's just not needed.

How easy is it for somebody with no knowledge to even find out that there are grub launch parameters let alone find out that there are modules and which one is bad?

You can argue that people will just copy commands from sites, or that you tell them, and then it's going to be the same amount of easy for both, if people have to figure it out on their own without any help both are impossible to do for normal users.

 

[mitch074]

How easy is it for somebody with no knowledge to even find out that there are grub launch parameters let alone find out that there are modules and which one is bad?

You can argue that people will just copy commands from sites, or that you tell them, and then it's going to be the same amount of easy for both, if people have to figure it out on their own without any help both are impossible to do for normal users.

How many drivers know how to change a flat tire? Until you've read the manual, or had someone showing it to you, you don't.
Same thing with fixing an OS. Difference is, on Linux the manual reads like a stereo's instruction, while for Windows it's written in southern sàmi on the wall of a closed off public toilet with a placard saying "beware of the leopard!"