Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion (
More info?)
On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:14:36 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
<patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 01:51:23 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:48:56 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
>><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 13:16:22 -0500, dave weil <dweil2@bellsouth.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
>>>><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:18:57 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
>>>>><YustabeSlim@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"nyob123@peoplepc.com" <NYOB123@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:3FxRe.4944$_84.2418@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> When people flat out lie about the perfomance improvements that a peice of
>>>>>>> equipment, it's my feeling that such information shoud be challenged. If
>>>>>>> manufacturers want to chare high prices for gear they ought to expect
>>>>>>> challenges. Aside from liking the way one peice of gear looks as opposed
>>>>>>> to another, why would anyone want tos spend more monye than needed to
>>>>>>> achieve the same performance. Do you think they'd sell more VW's of they
>>>>>>> performed exactly the way Porsche does? Do you tink if someone made a car
>>>>>>> that performed exactly the way a Porsce does that they'd likely sell
>>>>>>> plenty?
>>>>>
>>>>>They do - the VW Touareg and Porsche Cayenne are the *same* car.
>>>>
>>>>Until you look at the motors. That has more than a little to do with
>>>>"performance".
>>>>
>>>>Sorry you know so little about cars.
>>>
>>>Sorry you're unaware that the base models use the 3.2 V-6 VW petrol
>>>engine,
>>
>>Except that the Porsche gets 25 more HP out of the same motor. Sorry
>>you don't know more about what you're talking about.
>
>Bullshit. The Porsche is rated at 247 HP (same as the rating for that
>engine in all other VW and Audi cars in which it's used), while it's
>rated at 240 in the Touareg, for no reason I can find. There is *no*
>special Porsche tuning at work here, just some mysterious derating in
>the Touareg (mebbe Porsche's marketing guys insisted?). Five'll get
>you ten they'll be identical on a rolling road........
Why can't you just admit that you are wrong?
Oh it's you, that's why...
"So why did Porsche develop a V6 engine? Well, in designing and
constructing the unit-body chassis of the Cayenne, Porsche worked with
parent company VW, who was co-developing the Touareg SUV. Although the
3.2-liter V6 is snatched from the Touareg, Porsche engineers assure
that extensive modification has been done to guarantee Porsche
performance. For example, the new intake system uses continuously
variable valve timing and two overhead camshafts. The exhaust has also
been tweaked to bellow the familiar Porsche note. For towing, the
cooling system was also enhanced to withstand pulling in high ambient
temperatures.
V6 Horsepower
Porsche reports horsepower for its V6 version at 247 and torque at 228
lb.-ft. A Touareg yields only 220 hp. but creates 225 lb.-ft. of
torque. However, all that torque arrives later in the power band in
the VW (3,200 rpm as opposed to 2,500 rpm in the Porsche), so Porsche
can tout slightly better utility capabilities".
Looks like VW has added another 20 HP though for 2005. Still less than
the Porsche.
>>> they share the 'stump-pulling' VW 5-litre V-10 turbo-diesel,
>>
>>Ooops, nope. The Cayenne doesn't offer the diesel.
>
>Apologies - that's for next year.
Still can't say the simple words, "I'm wrong". But thanks for the
acknowlegement. I fully admit that I was wrong about some things as
well. You should try the straightforward approach. Speaking of next
year though, it's likely that Porsche will maintain a technical
superiority, as they've not settled for the same specs on anything
they've used from VW.
>>>and the W-12 VW has the same power output (but with no turbo lag) as
>>>the V-8 Cayenne Turbo S.
>>
>>There is no such model as a Cayenne Turbo S. The S is a V-8, the
>>turbo-equipped model is called Turbo.
>
>OK, they changed the designations when the base model was introduced,
>originally the S *was* the Turbo.
Again, why not just say, "Sorry, I'm wrong". It doesn't hurt as much
as you think.
>> Besides, the W12 ISN'T AVAILABLE
>>on the Touareg, so it's irrelevant.
>
>Yes, it is.
I've already said that I was wrong about this.
>Don't you read the motoring magazines?
Not really (except occasionally). I don't read the hi-fi magazines
either (same frequency)
..
>Maybe not in that
>lawless third-world place called America, but certainly in Europe.
>There was a limited run of 500, and the dealers screamed so much that
>it's now been made a mainstream model.
I've now seen that. Thanks for the update.
>> And since it's not a
>>Pinkerton-approved "cutting-edge motor", who cares, right?
>
>Not 'cutting edge'? The engine that powers the latest Bentleys? the
>world's only W-12? Are you *crazy*?! Ah, sorry, silly question.......
According to you, it has to be 100 HP per liter, remember? Funny how
the words come back to haunt you. This is roughly the same percentage
as Ford's engine that Imentioned as being cutting edge, although you
correctly pointed out (or *I* found out later) that it was only 170 HP
per 2 liter.
>>>Shame that you know so little about cars.
>>
>>So you say. However, you've gotten just about everything wrong in this
>>post.
>
>Nope, you have as ever lost all touch with reality. The Porsche
>Cayenne and VW Touareg are the *same* car, and the base models share
>the *same* VW engine. Only *you* are dumb enough to think otherwise.
Now you are changing your story.
"PS: The standard Cayenne's narrow-angle 3.2-liter V6 engine was
developed by Volkswagen. Porsche did its own finish work for its
version of the V6, which features variable timing for both the intake
and exhaust valves for an impressive combination of smooth idling,
good low-end torque and free-revving high-end horsepower". 6 more
horsepower actually.
They do NOT offer the exact same performance, regardless of how you
spin it.
However, I fully stipulate that you weren't the ONLY one wrong in this
exchange.
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