Question Strange and completely random BSODs, no real cause.

[cjwolls]

Hey all, after seemingly fixing my PC's stability I have been encountering some random crashes here and there. Once per day seemingly entirely at random.

Not while gaming, not while running an intensive load, at the desktop or while general internet browsing. My system has passed just about every stress test I can throw at it as well as a fresh OS install twice.

Dump files can be found HERE

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you

Full Spec List
Motherboard - ASROCK B550 Taichi
CPU - Ryzen 7 3700x
GPU - NVidia GTX 1070 Founders Edition
RAM - 32gb DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro
PSU - PowerSpec 850w Gold Fully Modular RGB (PSX 850GFM )

Links to previous threads can be found below:
Thread 1
Thread 2

 

[cjwolls]

bugcheck was in usb code extensions.
i would guess it was from this device:
"HID\VID_1B1C&PID_0A52&MI_03&Col01\8&7552ab9&0&0000"

https://devicehunt.com/view/type/usb/vendor/1B1C

it is some corsair device but id did not see 0a52 as a device in the list.

this could be:
the device itself: Look for a firmware update, maybe move the device to a different USB host by itself, or remove the device, depending on what it is. (move it to usb 2.x port if you have one, usb3 ports are more likely to have bugs)

this could also be: a bug in your bios setup for the usb, or the wrong usb extension driver USBXHCI.sys or UsbHub3.sys
looks like you have the microsoft generic driver for both of these.
see if your motherboard has a custom USB 3 driver to install.
(custom drivers have to match the bios version)

so, for each of your usb devices, you need to make sure you have updated the firmware. Also check for firmware updates for the usb chips on the motherboard.

the video device indicated a Mouse. Does your mouse have lights that you can control? see if there is a firmware update for the mouse

looks like all of the cosair devices are listed as vid on the usb port. all have custom logs that I can not read with the debugger. I I can really read is one asked to see what other devices were connected to the USB bus and the bus just stopped working. then you got a bugcheck since a bogus memory location (address 19) was used.
I think it is just going to be a stupid bug where some device passed the contents of a memory pointer rather than the memory pointer itself. ie the number 19 is the size of the memory block not the address.

you might consider going into windows control panel, device manager and find every single USB port and right clicking on them and find the power management tab and tell windows not to put them to sleep. just in case this is some sleep issue with one of the devices on the USB bus.

found a internal error for device
USB\VID_1B1C&PID_0A52&REV_2041
it indicated that it was doing something that is only allowed by an audio device but the device was a video device. look for firmware update.
I am guessing it is corsair speaker that were set up as a video device.
------------
debugger internal log:
496: HUBPDO_CreatePdoInternal - Device Context 0xFFFF878B68E3A170 - USB\VID_1B1C&PID_0A52&REV_2041 - Port Path 6:0:0:0:0:0
497: HUBPDO_EvtDevicePrepareHardware - DeviceHackFlags:0x8
498: HUBDESC_InternalValidateEndpointDescriptor - HW_COMPLIANCE:Configuration Descriptor Validation warning due to the bLength value (0x9) of the endpoint descriptor at offset (0xb7) is greater than expected (0x7). This is allowed by the audio class, but others should avoid it.
499: HUBDESC_InternalValidateEndpointDescriptor - HW_COMPLIANCE:Configuration Descriptor Validation warning due to the bLength value (0x9) of the endpoint descriptor at offset (0xfa) is greater than expected (0x7). This is allowed by the audio class, but others should avoid it.
500: HUBDESC_InternalValidateLastInterface - HW_COMPLIANCE:Configuration Descriptor Validation Failed due to the number of endpoint descriptors found (0x0) for an interface was not equal to the number specified (0x1) in the corresponding interface descriptor (bInterfaceNumber 0x2 and bAlternateSetting 0x2). Ignoring failure for further validation.
501: HUBPDO_EvtDeviceWdmIrpPreprocess - Failing the MS OS Descriptor request by client as the device does not support it
------------
usb c port was reset in the logs right before the crash.

Hey @johnbl thanks for the help once more! As far as the corsair devices are concerned, the only way I know how to update the firmware is through ICUE itself. I know @Colif mentioned using ICUE in an above post so maybe he will have some more information regarding corsair product firmware without ICUE?

I'll manually dig through device manager in the meantime to see if I can manually update anything regarding my USB ports and I'll try the sleep tip you mentioned as well.

Regarding the mouse, I switched up my mouses from a Corsair mouse with no RGB to a Razer mouse that does have RGB. I had to swap them since with the Razer mouse the DPI is saved to the actual hardware on the mouse vs the Corsair mouse wherein it is all controlled through ICUE. I had to download an old legacy version of Razer Synapse to set my DPI, and in turn it reset the lighting to whatever it was in 2015 or whenever I last used it. Could this have caused a bugcheck among the USBS? A crash happened very soon after swapping, uninstalling ICUE, and then installing Razer Synapse.

I have not had any crashes since my last dump file. Things are seemingly running stable. I have MSI Afterburner running and it's stable as well. No crashes upon opening or closing the application so that is an improvement -------- EDIT BELOW

WELL, as I was typing this post my PC decided to hit me with another Kernel Security Check BSOD. The kernel dump is located HERE

I will search ASRock and research if this motherboard has any specific USB drivers. I didn't see any on their support site. Do any of these look like they might pertain to USB or any issues I may be having? https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550 Taichi/#Download

 

[cjwolls]

originally I had this in last post until I noticed the F:

sounds like the thermal paste on your GPU needs replacing. I had a GTX 980 that went from always low temps to 60c all the time. My RTX 2070 Super sits on 50c most days but it doesn't do much apart from show videos or desktop. I don't think its fans start until it hits 61c.

I wonder if GPU is part of the problem (or is the problem) as those temps wouldn't be helping.

It probably does. I have been nervous to take it apart considering it is a founders edition card and I don't yet have all the tools needed to take it apart. My local tech does not offer GPU repasting either sadly.

However, with a custom fan curve from MSI Afterburner, my card never goes over 72c. NVidias stock fan curve on these cards is awful, keeps it operating at 82c.

Like many others I had this card hoping to get a 30 series, but as we all know now that was a foolish idea lol. I thought with this platform I would be able to slot in a 3070 or so without any issue. I've been debating getting an AMD card since the prices are starting to come back down, but I'll probably just use this 1070 until I find a good deal on something else.

 

[cjwolls]

device USB\VID_1B1C&PID_0A52&REV_2041
=
VOID ELITE USB Gaming Headset

look for firmware update
---------------
you may find that installing the amd chipset drivers for your motherboard might replace the microsoft generic USB drivers and extensions. the AMD drivers might not check and block the audio calls on a video usb device like the microsoft driver does. IE the amd driver might work better with all of the corsair drivers claiming to be video devices (headset, mouse, and keyboard ) (just in case there is not a firmware update)

also, usb drivers are installed via plug and play and get associated with each port.
when the device is removed the driver gets hidden but still runs. you have to go into window windows control panel, device manger find the option in the menu to show hidden devices. Then you can remove the software for the device for each port. you might even have to remove the driver from your machine.
plug and play will reinstall the driver if the device is connected.
(update the driver if you can)

After doing all of what I could do that you listed above (usb drivers and disabling them from being put to sleep, reinstalling chipset drivers, searching for firmware updates). I was hit with 4 BSODS in a pretty quick succession. They can be found below.

Dump 1
Dump 2
Dump 3
Dump 4
Dump 5
Dump 6
Dump 7
Dump 8

Edit - Fifth BSOD just occured, listed with the others.
Edit - Sixth BSOD in a row, system now seems more unstable now than it was about 10 hours ago for some reason.
Edit - Seventh and Eighth BSOD, uploaded Dump

Do you recommend I just put a fresh OS install and try adding back programs one by one to test stability?

 

[johnbl]

you have winring064.sys dated 2008
and msio64.sys running.
NVD - CVE-2019-18845 (nist.gov)
you might want to remove.

in the last bugcheck all the cpus were making the same call to
amdppm.sys i think this provides the amd cpu power management calls.

I think something is wrong with the driver and your version of the cpu.
for a test, try and disable the driver in the registry see here
BSOD amdppm.sys - Microsoft Community
from above link:
Click Start
Type: regedit
Right click regedit
Click Run as administrator

Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\amdppm
Change Start to have a value of 4.
(you should note the old setting so you can set it back)
then reboot. (it will lock the processor but you can see if it helps)
your processor speed was strange (3593 MHz)

you also had asio2.sys and asio3.sys installed. do you install these for something?
what is ctiio64.sys for?

 

[johnbl]

After doing all of what I could do that you listed above (usb drivers and disabling them from being put to sleep, reinstalling chipset drivers, searching for firmware updates). I was hit with 4 BSODS in a pretty quick succession. They can be found below.

Dump 1
Dump 2
Dump 3
Dump 4
Dump 5
Dump 6
Dump 7
Dump 8

Edit - Fifth BSOD just occured, listed with the others.
Edit - Sixth BSOD in a row, system now seems more unstable now than it was about 10 hours ago for some reason.
Edit - Seventh and Eighth BSOD, uploaded Dump

Do you recommend I just put a fresh OS install and try adding back programyes one by one to test stability?

that might be faster, do a clean install and test make sure everything is stable before adding tools

 

[cjwolls]

that might be faster, do a clean install and test make sure everything is stable before adding tools

I was thinking the same thing. This machine is only used for gaming so I dont have anything other than a few small things like steam, discord and the Xbox app to add.

I'll perform a clean OS install now.

After I get that done i will go to ASRock's site and download all the basic core drivers like chipset and lan.

I noticed the chipset drivers come with Ryzen Powe Plan. Should I install that along with everything else?

Do you recommend I download anything to stress test my system before any other programs? Like aida, prime 95, occt, etc

 

[johnbl]

I was thinking the same thing. This machine is only used for gaming so I dont have anything other than a few small things like steam, discord and the Xbox app to add.

I'll perform a clean OS install now.

After I get that done i will go to ASRock's site and download all the basic core drivers like chipset and lan.

I noticed the chipset drivers come with Ryzen Powe Plan. Should I install that along with everything else?

Do you recommend I download anything to stress test my system before any other programs? Like aida, prime 95, occt, etc

try to keep the driver updates matched to the bios version from the motherboard website.
windows will install a dll if it thinks your cpu is lacking a microcode patch.

get the install then test memory and cpu and check your drive health.
(you might even boot into bios and leave it for a hour so the drives can run their TRIM functions. TRIM functions run under windows after it is idle for 5 minutes. Sometimes they get behind because if the drive is put to sleep.
(system process in task manager starts to use a lot of memory space)

 

[cjwolls]

try to keep the driver updates matched to the bios version from the motherboard website.
windows will install a dll if it thinks your cpu is lacking a microcode patch.

get the install then test memory and cpu and check your drive health.
(you might even boot into bios and leave it for a hour so the drives can run their TRIM functions. TRIM functions run under windows after it is idle for 5 minutes. Sometimes they get behind because if the drive is put to sleep.
(system process in task manager starts to use a lot of memory space)

Unfortunately all of the drivers on the support page are just listed under driver version with nothing indicating what BIOS version they should or shouldn't be paired with at least to my knowledge. I am currently running BIOS version 2.0 - the most recent version. Do you see anything to indicate what drivers might work with this BIOS over others?

An interesting thing about this motherboard, when I reinstall windows my ethernet is not detected automatically. Rather I have to sign into my wifi and download the intel LAN driver, then the light kicks on at my rear IO and I am good to go.

Memtest has not wanted to display an image since I updated BIOS. I think it's running since it generates the file showing it ran if I cancel the test, but without seeing a visual I can't tell what's going on.

I've tried both memtest and windows memory diagnostic before, and my RAM has always passed but I will try to run them again overnight to test.

So far, only drivers I have downloaded are the ones from windows update, and the Intel Lan driver from ASRocks site.

Is there anything else you recommend I use to check CPU and RAM?

 

[Colif]

well, the bios is dated October 12th 21
The newest chipset driver on the Support page is after that so I would get it.

the remainder aren't so essential to match.
you don't want the sata or VGA

 

[cjwolls]

well, the bios is dated October 12th 21
The newest chipset driver on the Support page is after that so I would get it.

the remainder aren't so essential to match.
you don't want the sata or VGA

Installing chipset drivers now.

What about Ryzen Power Plan? I see John's post above mentioning power management calls. Should I avoid the powerplan for now?

 

[Colif]

i would stick to the normal balanced for now until problem is really gone.

 

[cjwolls]

i would stick to the normal balanced for now until problem is really gone.

Understood. I didn't install Ryzen Power Plan.

I've been letting my system rest at the desktop and so far it's been stable since reinstalling the OS.

I'll follow @johnbl advice as well and let my system hangout in BIOS while I watch a movie.

If things seem stable after that should I move on to some testing with Aida and Prime?

Possibly Cinebench and a few GPU stress tests as well?

 

[Colif]

get the install then test memory and CPU and check your drive health.

Prime will take long enough, I suspect John be back before its finished.

 

[cjwolls]

try to keep the driver updates matched to the bios version from the motherboard website.
windows will install a dll if it thinks your cpu is lacking a microcode patch.

get the install then test memory and cpu and check your drive health.
(you might even boot into bios and leave it for a hour so the drives can run their TRIM functions. TRIM functions run under windows after it is idle for 5 minutes. Sometimes they get behind because if the drive is put to sleep.
(system process in task manager starts to use a lot of memory space)

Things were stable for many hours while running prime 95, zero failures in two hours but I will run a full overnight test tonight and check back in the morning.

I just attempted to install the latest drivers from Nvidia, without Geforce Experience. I chose a custom install and I only selected Physx, HD Audio and the Game Ready Driver itself.
The package seemed to install correctly and I restarted my PC to be greeted by a crash about 10 minutes after it restarted. My PC firs froze for about 10-15 seconds before greeting me with a DPC Watchdog Violation.

I've included the dump file here.
(Extra link in case that one doesn't work, first time using onedrive)
(switched to onedrive, have to find my USB with my mega recovery key and I didn't feel like tracking it down whilst dealing with this)


The only things I have done since putting a new OS onto this system are

• Link my local user account to my Microsoft account
• Download the latest chipset drivers from ASRock's website and install them, minus Ryzen Power Plan
• Download an install the LAN driver from ASrock's website and install it to access ethernet
• Download Prime95 and run it for 2 hours without any issues
• Download the latest game ready drivers, without Geforce Experience as an add on.
• Download GPU Z and CPU Z to monitor hardware during Prime95 runs

If the included dump files don't offer anything useful I guess it's time to start stress testing each piece of hardware on my system with confirmed good hardware.

 

[cjwolls]

Prime will take long enough, I suspect John be back before its finished.

After 45 minutes of running a blend stress test on Prime95 my 3700x won't boost past around 3.6-3.7ghz. Switching tests doesn't seem to help anything. Temps around 65-66c. Is this normal?

 

[Colif]

well, I expect its running a little hot and can only run at base clock or a little higher - https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-3700x

boost normally needs cooler temps, so if PC running all cores or most of them, its not going to run fast

 

[Colif]

As far as the corsair devices are concerned, the only way I know how to update the firmware is through ICUE itself. I know @Colif mentioned using ICUE in an above post so maybe he will have some more information regarding corsair product firmware without ICUE?

Do you have a Corsair AIO? I wonder what plan it runs fans on without Icue. 65-66c isn't that warm in Prime really. I see higher running cinebench

as for question, I don't think there is a way to update firmware without Icue BUT I also can't recall last time it offered any. I have 3 Corsair parts and in the past 18 months its offered no updates, so I don't feel its something I would worry about.

 

[johnbl]

from the last memory dump, the system crashed because something wrong with your USB.
the driver for the USB did not complete for 20 seconds.
looks like both the network driver and the video driver were waiting on something in usb to finish.

I guess I would go into windows device manager and find the usb host controller and uninstall it and then rescan the hardware to get it reinstalled again.

-maybe your bios has a way to turn off USB extensions?

• is there a firmware update for your actual USB host controller on the machine?
• I will try to see what device caused the problem.

(last time it was the corsair headphones being registered as a video device but still using audio functions and the microsoft driver not allowing the function to be called. I guess the headphones driver just kept waiting/blocking everything)

-you might see if you can disable some of the usb devices in bios
- check for firmware updates to all usb devices

will look in the internal logs to see if I can tell what device was waiting.

- you might also disable the nvidia usb-c port
call before the failure was to a USB -C port

download and run
https://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbtreeview_e.html#download
and see if it reports and errors with your USB ports.

 

[johnbl]

trying to find the usb device with the problem:

you have corasir icue commander core running on a suspended usb hub
and a asrock led controller also running on a suspended hub
and a intel device with no description on a suspended hub

for some reason all devices are showing as video devices so it might just be a problem with the debugger indicating a video device.

other devices looked like they were running ok

guess i would go to control panel, device manager and make sure none of the usb hubs can sleep. IE right mouse click, find properties, see if there is a power management time and turn of the allow windows to save power on this device.

the port that the icue commander is running on, went from suspended to powered off. looks like it was port 4 on a usb 2.x hub
tell the hub not to sleep so it does not power down and it could prevent this problem

 

[cjwolls]

Hey @johnbl thanks again.

I will go into device manager and do what you suggest. I just have a few questions.

EDIT - I was able to use the power management and disable sleep on every USB EXCEPT FOR 'USB Composite Device', and I can't update firmware/drivers on them either, 4 show up on my device.

Here is my all of the USB's showing in my device manager.

https://imgur.com/CYPhcyy

View: https://imgur.com/CYPhcyy

(I have also typed them below as they appear in my device manager.)

AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.10 (Microsoft)
AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.10 (Microsoft)
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub
Generic USB Hub
Generic USB Hub
USB Composite Device
USB Composite Device
USB Composite Device
USB Composite Device
USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)
USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)​

Which one would be the Nvidia USB C? I can't seem to find it, and I don't actually have anything that uses USB C.

Would I uninstall the USB Root Hubs? I see many hubs here and I am unsure of what to use.

I will check my BIOS about disabling USB devices, but I don't believe there is one.

Devices I have connected by USB are as follows

• Corsair k70 RGB Mk2
• Razor Deathadder Chroma
• Corsair Void RGB Wired

I will do download and run USB Device Tree Viewer (uwe-sieber.de) as you suggested and I will report back if any errors are detected.

I know this is probably entirely unrelated, but I also stumbled across this video last night. Detailing how a Ryzen 3700x was having issues operating in certain motherboards, gigabyte in this case. Have either you or @Colif heard of something like that with ASRock boards and a 3700x? I haven't had a chance to test my CPU on another board but I should be able to this weekend.


EDIT - While creating this post. I experienced three BSODs, and one complete computer lock up/freeze without a BSOD. Was just watching a youtube video and typing this post when my entire PC locked up and froze. I had to force a restart by holding the power button.

Dump file from most recent crashes can be found below
Crash 1
Crash 2
Crash 3

 

[cjwolls]

trying to find the usb device with the problem:

you have corasir icue commander core running on a suspended usb hub
and a asrock led controller also running on a suspended hub
and a intel device with no description on a suspended hub

for some reason all devices are showing as video devices so it might just be a problem with the debugger indicating a video device.

other devices looked like they were running ok

guess i would go to control panel, device manager and make sure none of the usb hubs can sleep. IE right mouse click, find properties, see if there is a power management time and turn of the allow windows to save power on this device.

the port that the icue commander is running on, went from suspended to powered off. looks like it was port 4 on a usb 2.x hub
tell the hub not to sleep so it does not power down and it could prevent this problem

I am not exactly sure what to do in the program that you linked, but HERE is the report I was able to copy from within it.

If I need to do anything else inside of that program, just let me know.

 

[johnbl]

I am not exactly sure what to do in the program that you linked, but HERE is the report I was able to copy from within it.

If I need to do anything else inside of that program, just let me know.

i don't see the file. just look for some error. I used this once to find that one of my ports just never worked. Another time I found a port that was shorted out to the case. Both just reported a error.

try to get your usb 2 ports not to suspend and power down.

 

[cjwolls]

i don't see the file. just look for some error. I used this once to find that one of my ports just never worked. Another time I found a port that was shorted out to the case. Both just reported a error.

try to get your usb 2 ports not to suspend and power down.

I set all available USB's that had a power management tab to not allowing windows to power them down. This is correct, right?


Only ones that did not have a power management setting were 'USB Composite Device' in Device Manager

When I click on the properties of my ports within that program, I can't seem to find the options regarding suspend or power down.

Did this fix the file? For some reason onedrive is being difficult.

LINK TO FILE

 

[Colif]

it didn't work again - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...personal-3fcefa26-1371-401e-8c04-589de81ed5eb

(I have also typed them below as they appear in my device manager.)

AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.10 (Microsoft)
AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.10 (Microsoft)
Generic SuperSpeed USB Hub
Generic USB Hub
Generic USB Hub
USB Composite Device
USB Composite Device
USB Composite Device
USB Composite Device
USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)
USB Root Hub (USB 3.0)​

if you highlight one of them, say the Generic USB HUb & then go to view menu choice and change to Devices by Connection, you may find its actually linked to something like Intel Wireless Bluetooth or nothing at all. My 2nd one isn't in use.

most of what you see is repetition. its a hierarchy system but its showing all layers at once

1. AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.10 (Microsoft) - is top layer, it controls
2. USB Root Hub (USB 3.0) - is 2nd layer, it sits below 1st and above
3. Generic USB Hub - which is the 3rd layer
4. I can't see into your PC but on mine 4th layer is Intel Wireless Bluetooth as an example

An older example

so there aren't as many devices there as it first looks. Its needs more arrows

Which one would be the Nvidia USB C? I can't seem to find it, and I don't actually have anything that uses USB C.

it should show under the USB section with the rest of them. If you left click card in device manager, and choose view - Device by connection, it should show under it

John, would this be of use? https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

 

[cjwolls]

it didn't work again - https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...personal-3fcefa26-1371-401e-8c04-589de81ed5eb


if you highlight one of them, say the Generic USB HUb & then go to view menu choice and change to Devices by Connection, you may find its actually linked to something like Intel Wireless Bluetooth or nothing at all. My 2nd one isn't in use.

most of what you see is repetition. its a hierarchy system but its showing all layers at once

1. AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.10 (Microsoft) - is top layer, it controls
2. USB Root Hub (USB 3.0) - is 2nd layer, it sits below 1st and above
3. Generic USB Hub - which is the 3rd layer
4. I can't see into your PC but on mine 4th layer is Intel Wireless Bluetooth as an example

An older example

so there aren't as many devices there as it first looks. Its needs more arrows

USB C is just a connection type, its not going to show in Device manager, what you see in there are the other end of the cable... so to speak.

John, would this be of use? https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

No idea why onedrive wants to be pick about a text file but I'll give it one last shot before switching cloud services.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgbBg5dtmgd2gRFc6KunouA98Bep

Ah alright, I'm aware USB-C is a connection type, same type my phone uses to charge.

I was just confused because I don't even have a USB-C port on my motherboard or case IO so I didn't understand how it could possibly be in use or causing issues.

In the morning when I have some quick time I'll do as you suggest and see what is liked to the ports/hubs and report back.