Question Strange USB device issue - USB devices "fall off" Dell win11 laptop connected via Dell Dock

[bird95134]

Weird problem on my Dell 9315 XPS13 running win11. Dell laptop is connected to a Dell dock WD19TB docking station via a USB-C connection between dock and laptop. THe dock as two monitors and 1 USB powered USB 8 port hub. Then, all USB devices are connected to the USB hub, which are 5 devices (Speaker phone, camera, 2 - wireless headsets from Jabra, one usb storage drive). What is weird is of the 5 devices, the speaker phone works, the other 4 do not.

What I have done:

1. reboot/repower down/up all devices, no change
2. Reconnect (remove/replace) all devices, perform #1 above, no change
3. Bring in another Dell XPS 13 (older) that I have into exact same configuration - all devices are seen and work as expected.
4. Tried a variety of connections to the laptop USB C ports (my laptop only has USB C ports) with an adapter. The speaker phone works, the 4 other do not.
5. In device manager, removed all of the USB root Hub Root and Generic Hub entries and rebooted, all then started working!! Left Laptop powered on after work day, over night (as I always do)

6. This AM, came in to office, get ready to join a meeting, picked up a wireless headset and join a Teams meeting. Problem back!! Same symptoms. The 4 devices Devices are not showing up in device manager (again

I am now starting to think I have a bad USB cable perhaps -- bad enough with some weird, intermittent voltage/ground issue that is causing some weirdness of some type. The fact that a 2nd laptop connected to the dock station via the USB C cable and everything works is interesting as well.

Anyone else have ideas? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ralston18]

Try an independently powered USB hub.

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

Dell 9315 XPS13
What BIOS version are you on for your laptop?

Dell dock WD19TB
https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=cwcf9
try that out and see if that helps.

 

[bird95134]

Thanks @Lutfij . Both the Dell laptop and Dell dock as the latest firmware/bios updates as reported by running the Dell Update application. I have put the info below. This is one of the strangest problems I have seen over the years using PCs. ** Update** I have had to remove all USB root Hub Root and Generic Hub entries again and rebooted the PC to get everything to work. I continue to monitor this weird problem.

Dell Laptop BIOS/Firmware Version:

Dell XPS 9315 System BIOS

AUTO INSTALLED

BIOS

22 Jan 2024

Docking Station Version
01.00.36, 01.00.20
Release date
04 Jan 2024
Download Type
Firmware
Category
Docks/Stands

 

[bird95134]

Try an independently powered USB hub.

Thanks for the note @Ralston18 . The USB hub I have in-line with current configuration is a powered USB hub. I have another in the ready to use (newly ordered from Amazon, different OEM). As it is powered AND the USB devices work fine with a different Dell XPS laptop, I conclude the problem is not related (yet) to the USB hub or cables - but suspect some type of intermittent problem that might be related to those components -- but am thinking a problem with Windows and/or the laptop. The fact that I can remove the USB root Hub Root and Generic Hub entries in device manager and reboot and problem goes away is another data point I am keeping in mind.

 

[Ralston18]

Fortunately, you still have a number of other tools to use to troubleshoot....

I suggest starting with Reliability History/Monitor and Event Viewer. Use both tools but only one tool at a time.

The objective being to discover any error codes, warnings, or even informational events that occur just before or at the time of the dropoffs.

Reliability History/Monitor is much more end user friendly and presents a time line format that can be revealing.

Event Viewer requires more time and effort to navigate and understand. To help:

How To - How to use Windows 10 Event Viewer | Tom's Hardware Forum (tomshardware.com)

The next option, I believe, is to use Task Manager, Resource Monitor, and Process Explorer to look for what changes when the fall-offs occur. Use all three tools but use only one tool at a time.

Process Explorer (Microsoft, free):

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

Leave the tool window open and viewable.

Work etc. as usual while keeping an eye on the system informatin being presented by the tool.

Look for what changes when a fall-off occurs.

Or some pattern leading to a fall-off.

 

[bird95134]

Fortunately, you still have a number of other tools to use to troubleshoot....

I suggest starting with Reliability History/Monitor and Event Viewer. Use both tools but only one tool at a time.

The objective being to discover any error codes, warnings, or even informational events that occur just before or at the time of the dropoffs.

Reliability History/Monitor is much more end user friendly and presents a time line format that can be revealing.

Event Viewer requires more time and effort to navigate and understand. To help:

How To - How to use Windows 10 Event Viewer | Tom's Hardware Forum (tomshardware.com)

The next option, I believe, is to use Task Manager, Resource Monitor, and Process Explorer to look for what changes when the fall-offs occur. Use all three tools but use only one tool at a time.

Process Explorer (Microsoft, free):

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

Leave the tool window open and viewable.

Work etc. as usual while keeping an eye on the system informatin being presented by the tool.

Look for what changes when a fall-off occurs.

Or some pattern leading to a fall-off.

Thanks @Ralston18. I will begin reviewing this information and utilize these methods/tools you shared!! Interestingly, this AM, all of the devices are working (connected) as expected after the last device manager USB root Hub Root and Generic Hub entry removal/unistall and reboot (Thursday).

I noticed a similar problem (peripheral device connectivity) yesterday (Friday) with my Bluetooth (BT) mouse and keyboard (logitech with flow enabled, allowing me to use both mouse/keyboard on both this De;; XPS win11 laptop and a macOS at same desk), disconnect manifesting the behaviour as both becoming unresponsive on the Dell Laptop. Both (keyboard/mouse) worked on the macOS device at the time of the witnessed behaviour. So, on the Dell laptop, I had to open the lid of the laptop, use the laptop mouse pad/keyboard to restart the BT process via the UI. Happened a couple of times yesterday. First time, after restarting the BT process, I closed the lid and went on my way working in my various apps to work. Then a few hours later, same behavior. Repeated the BT restart process, but left the laptop lid open (which it still is open now). No BT problem (yet). I am adding this data point to the problem as maybe something related to a power setting (e.g. save power or run on lower power when xyx occurs).

These intermittent problems are the hardest to resolve......

For anyone reading and thinking -- call Dell or my IT department.... Unfortunately, Dell was of no help, basically wanted to check latest firmware/OS updates (which I always stay on top of for all of my computers/network/other devices). I may go back to Dell, but I just don't have the time to sit on a phone call with them at this point. My company IT department is, well to say it nicely -- clueless and wanted to get me another older, larger laptop. Perhaps we go there at some point, but this XPS 13 is only 3 months old and when it does work (which is most of the time, as this problem just started a couple of days ago) works very well.

 

[Ralston18]

Leaving the lid open may be allowing the laptop to remain cooler.

Monitor temperatures if and as possible.

 

[bird95134]

** Update 2/26/2024 **

So the symptom came back this AM (minutes before me joining a MS Teams call) when starting Teams and selecting my headset for the Teams meeting. Went a couple of weeks with no issue. No Jabra headsets or external camera. I used one of my Jabra headset fine late Friday afternoon. Using some of the suggested tools, I opened up event viewer, windows logs system table and found a few of these starting Saturday night (2/24) as I leave my laptop on. See below.

Googling on the Task Category, I found this article: https://windowsreport.com/event-id-196/

Generally, makes sense -- but none of the drivers are out of date. I had been thinking this is related to a BIOS or power related setting. This article doed talk about power setting in the Device Manager settings for USB3 Hub. So, as before, I removed the USB 3 hub entries in Device Manager, rebooted, my missing peripherals (Jabra headsets and External HD Camera came back (seen by laptop). I then went to Device Manager, USB Root Hub (USB 3.0) entries (3 of them) and turned OFF the setting for "Allow the computer to run off the device to save power" in the Power Management tab for Properties of all 3 entries. I see this setting is also configurable in other USB entries under the Universal Serial Bus controllers section of Device Manager, however I will not make any more changes as the notification errors I saw starting Saturday were only referenced USB Hub3. I will continue to monitor. I may also do some more research on BIOS settings as the article discusses Dell and Lenovo laptops -- so I will be doing homework on that front.

Log Name: System
Source: Microsoft-Windows-USB-USBHUB3
Date: 2/24/2024 8:37:43 PM
Event ID: 196
Task Category: Surprise Removal
Level: Warning
Keywords: (1)
User: SYSTEM
Computer: DESKTOP-ESQ0QGQ
Description:
USB device draining system power when system is idle.

USB Device: VID: 0xBDA PID: 0x8153 REV: 0x3111
Removal action failed: SkippedAsRecentIoObservered
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
<System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-USB-USBHUB3" Guid="{ac52ad17-cc01-4f85-8df5-4dce4333c99b}" />
<EventID>196</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>3</Level>
<Task>7</Task>
<Opcode>18</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000001</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2024-02-25T04:37:43.2214715Z" />
<EventRecordID>504300</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="51276" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>DESKTOP-ESQ0QGQ</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
<EventData>
<Data Name="fid_UsbDevice">0x56fb06ae2c38</Data>
<Data Name="fid_DripsWatchdogResult">5</Data>
<Data Name="fid_idVendor">3034</Data>
<Data Name="fid_idProduct">33107</Data>
<Data Name="fid_bcdDevice">12561</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>

 

[Ralston18]

Is it possible for you to connect the USB devices via a different independently powered USB Hub?

 

[bird95134]

Yes. I have one in reserve that I purchased on Amazon when this was happening in the beginning. A different OEM. So, I have made one change (the power management setting change) on the laptop. I will not make another change until I see the behavior again. I can correct the symptom, as I have stated, but removing the USB Hub USB 3.0 entries in Device Manager, and rebooting.

In my troubleshooting, I initially ruled out the USB powered hub as I could attach another Dell XPS 13 (yet a different model, older, but running win11) in the dock position and all expected peripheral devices showed up. Granted, it was only a test of 5 or 10 minutes, so I could be dealing with a Dock issue, USB Powered Hub -- intermittent of course. I have ruled out AC power issues to the computer as I use a fairly decent UPS from Cyberpower that also conditions the AC power. I use Cyberpower UPSs for all critical components (my office, my wife's computer, and all network router/switches/APs/modems).

I think my next move, if I see this again, will be to again search Windows logs (again, thanks for that idea), remove the USB entries in the Device Manager, leave the power settings alone in the new USB entries after reboot, and switch out the USB Power hub to a new one I have. Run in this state. Only other item I am running down if there may be some BIOS setting I need to toggle -- but I need to get the time to boot into that interface and look

 

[bird95134]

** update ** 4/29/2024.

I ended up getting a new USB hub off of amazon. One that has a on/off toggle switch on each port. While after disabling power options on the USB ports in device manager, the problem does not occur as often, it still does. I have an acceptable workaround which is: 1. Every morning, before I join a collaborative meeting (Teams, Zoom, etc), I toggle the two USB on/off (to off, then to on). This is an acceptable work around for me.