Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)
Having now seen the majority of the KMW set, I began to wonder how best
to incorporate the new Trophy and Red List rules that it introduces into
an effective deck.
Red List:
The ideal Red List candidate is not difficult to turn into a Red Listed
vampire, thus it must be a vampire of small capacity or an ally.
Similarly, that minion should have as little combat capacity as
possible, so as not to be a threat that hits back. Since it is
impossible to stack a deck so that any of these conditions are met (we
cannot force a Methuselah to play with weak allies or small cap
vampires), we are left with with one of two options: We can either a)
Red List the weakest link of our predator or prey and chase it down or
b) give our predator or prey the opportunity to create allies for us to
chase down. At the moment most thoughts have centred around a), this
strategy article differs, however, and talks about b). How then do we
force our predator or prey (mostly our prey) to create allies?
Answer: Absimilard's Army
"Gehenna. Do not replace until a Methuselah is ousted. Requires at least
one other Gehenna card in play. During each Methuselah's untap phase, he
or she may put the top card of his or her library in play. That card
represents a ghoul ally with 2 life, 2 strength, and 1 bleed. If the
ally is burned, it is removed from the game. When a Methuselah is
ousted, burn this card. Remove all such allies from the game when this
card leaves play."
While the minions created by AA are stronger than some, having 2 life
and 2 strength, most decks will not have any combat support for them,
meaning that they are succeptable to magnums. The advantage of allies
as RL targets is that there is no pesky need for diablerie - this
conserves both actions and or card slots for such nuissances as
comitting a risky diablerie or packing amaranth. Low capacity titled
vampires can take the action to RL allies, removing the need for high
capacity titled vampires. Though you may expect Big Game to see play in
such a deck, its lack of stealth hurts. In addition to the cardless
marking method to enter combat, I suggest a card that hasn't seen a lot
of use:
Purity of the Beast
"Requires a ready vampire. +1 stealth action. (D) Enter combat with an
ally controlled by your prey. The acting vampire gets +2 strength for
the duration of this combat."
Now you may have noticed a problem: What if your prey doesn't create any
Armylings? The answer is you overrun them with your Armylings. This
places them in a situation where they need to make them in order to keep
up with yours. When they do, you burn them, and reap your trophy
reward.
A second problem: "requires at least one other Gehenna card" Blood Trade
serves as the universal 'filler' Event, requiring no hand size reduction
and possessing a rather negligeable ability. Looking through the Events
I could not find any other that were of particular use to the strategy -
The Unmasking gives them intercept, which doesn't suit when you're using
a deck with +1 stealth rushes.
Trophies:
On to trophies, and which ones are particularly good with this kind of
deck. I suppose that I should preface this section by saying that a
good splash of trophies is worthwhile - different trophies are useful
against different deck types. Against a rush predator Safe Passage is
very helpful if you've got a core vampire, while Clan Loyalty might be
good if you're power bleeding a mono-clan deck. It's very usefull to
give Domain to someone with a lot of blood and a gun, as that vampire
can single handedly fight off whatever AA hoard lies behind you. Since
blood is always handy Hunting Ground cannot be ignored. As it is
inevitable that you're going to want to eat a vampire at some time, a
single Diablerie can at 2 stealth and no BH prove incredibly useful.
The one that I believe I value the highest though is Trophy: Progeny:
"Master. Trophy. If this card would be moved to a non-sterile vampire,
that vampire's controller takes control of it instead, and it becomes a
non-unique vampire of the same clan as that vampire with 2 capacity. He
or she may go through his or her library (shuffle afterwards), ash heap
or hand to find a Discipline card for this new vampire. Move 2 blood
from the blood bank to this new vampire."
Not only does it give an up to 3 capacity minion with a basic
discipline, it also makes it the same clan as the Trophied vampire (good
for !Tor and Palle Grande), and provides 2 blood for no effort. There
is no need to hunt, and they can act immediately. Since you can play
them as master cards, you may have two or three out that trigger
simultaneously, giving you a stupid leap in minions (Consanguinous Boon
=> Voter Cap, anyone?).
Sample Deck:
Deck Name: KMW Experiment 2
Created By: DR
Description: Using Marcus Vitel as your titled vamp and many small cap
!Malks create a sabbat army to defeat your foe... Using Absimilard's
Army and KMW Trophy tech.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 13, Max: 40, Avg: 6.42)
----------------------------------------------
5 Marcus Vitel DOM FOR OBF OBT PRE 10, Ventrue, Prince
2 Roger Farnsworth aus OBF 4, Malkavian antitribu
1 Yorik dem obf 3, Malkavian
antitribu
1 Boy Toy dem 2, Malkavian
antitribu
2 General Perfidio Dios dem obf AUS 5, Malkavian antitribu,
Bishop
1 Idalia AUS dem 4, Malkavian
antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (28 cards)
1 Auspex
3 Blood Doll
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Fragment of the Book of Nod
1 Hungry Coyote, The
7 Obfuscate
2 Parthenon, The
1 Specialization
1 Trophy: Diablerie
1 Trophy: Domain
1 Trophy: Hunting Ground
7 Trophy: Progeny
1 Trophy: Safe Passage
Action (19 cards)
1 Anima Gathering
2 Computer Hacking
2 Conquer the Beast
1 Entrancement
2 Kindred Spirits
4 Red List
7 Sibyl`s Tongue
Action Modifier (16 cards)
7 Faceless Night
2 Freak Drive
7 Lost in Crowds
Reaction (4 cards)
4 Deflection
Combat (7 cards)
7 Concealed Weapon
Equipment (8 cards)
1 Enchanted Marionette
7 .44 Magnum
Combo (4 cards)
4 Swallowed by the Night
To be perfectly honest, this deck is rough, entirely untested, and
likely far less refined than it ought to be. Regardless, it's out there
for critique, and if anyone has any better ideas, I'm more than willing
to listen. Marcus Vitel is the keystone because he gives all of your
minions (and you should be making like baby !Malks) get +1 bleed against
Camarilla vamps, though his capacity is unecessarily high. It might be
better in fact to find a low cap !Toreador and Palle Grande with them
(quarterbacked by Ian Wallingford). In fact... that seems like a much
better idea - I'll make that one next.
Deck Name: KMW Experiment 3
Created By: DR
Description: Much like number 2, this deck uses AA and RLs allies to
make minions. Use Palle Grande to give them all + bleed and go to town.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 14, Max: 26, Avg: 5.25)
----------------------------------------------
3 Ian Wallingford aus CEL PRE 6, Toreador antitribu, Bishop
2 Jessica AUS CEL OBT PRE 7, Toreador antitribu,
Bishop
1 Carter cel 2, Toreador antitribu
1 Lolita for pre 3, Toreador antitribu
1 Remilliard AUS pre 4, Toreador antitribu
1 Cristos Mantigo aus cel dom obf pre 5, Toreador antitribu
1 Creamy Jade aus cel PRE vic 5, Toreador antitribu
2 Jost Werner ani AUS PRE 6, Toreador antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (36 cards)
1 Barrens, The
3 Blood Doll
2 Dreams of the Sphinx
5 Fortschritt Library
1 Hungry Coyote, The
3 Palla Grande
2 Parthenon, The
8 Presence
1 Specialization
1 Trophy: Diablerie
1 Trophy: Domain
8 Trophy: Progeny
Action (24 cards)
4 Enchant Kindred
4 Entrancement
2 Intimidation
2 Legal Manipulations
2 Mind Numb
6 Red List
2 Social Charm
2 Purity of the Beast
Action Modifier (4 cards)
4 Aire of Elation
Reaction (4 cards)
2 Quicken Sight
2 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (11 cards)
7 Concealed Weapon
4 Pursuit
Equipment (7 cards)
7 .44 Magnum
Though I haven't taken the time to make a deck like this, I'm certain
the theory is sound. I've been poking around on the Path of Blood
asking about how people have reacted to an AA hitting the table, and it
seems like universally people do take advantage of it, making this
notion viable enough to try. Please let me know what you think, what
means could be used to economise/generally improve the concept.
Regards,
Derek Rawlings
Having now seen the majority of the KMW set, I began to wonder how best
to incorporate the new Trophy and Red List rules that it introduces into
an effective deck.
Red List:
The ideal Red List candidate is not difficult to turn into a Red Listed
vampire, thus it must be a vampire of small capacity or an ally.
Similarly, that minion should have as little combat capacity as
possible, so as not to be a threat that hits back. Since it is
impossible to stack a deck so that any of these conditions are met (we
cannot force a Methuselah to play with weak allies or small cap
vampires), we are left with with one of two options: We can either a)
Red List the weakest link of our predator or prey and chase it down or
b) give our predator or prey the opportunity to create allies for us to
chase down. At the moment most thoughts have centred around a), this
strategy article differs, however, and talks about b). How then do we
force our predator or prey (mostly our prey) to create allies?
Answer: Absimilard's Army
"Gehenna. Do not replace until a Methuselah is ousted. Requires at least
one other Gehenna card in play. During each Methuselah's untap phase, he
or she may put the top card of his or her library in play. That card
represents a ghoul ally with 2 life, 2 strength, and 1 bleed. If the
ally is burned, it is removed from the game. When a Methuselah is
ousted, burn this card. Remove all such allies from the game when this
card leaves play."
While the minions created by AA are stronger than some, having 2 life
and 2 strength, most decks will not have any combat support for them,
meaning that they are succeptable to magnums. The advantage of allies
as RL targets is that there is no pesky need for diablerie - this
conserves both actions and or card slots for such nuissances as
comitting a risky diablerie or packing amaranth. Low capacity titled
vampires can take the action to RL allies, removing the need for high
capacity titled vampires. Though you may expect Big Game to see play in
such a deck, its lack of stealth hurts. In addition to the cardless
marking method to enter combat, I suggest a card that hasn't seen a lot
of use:
Purity of the Beast
"Requires a ready vampire. +1 stealth action. (D) Enter combat with an
ally controlled by your prey. The acting vampire gets +2 strength for
the duration of this combat."
Now you may have noticed a problem: What if your prey doesn't create any
Armylings? The answer is you overrun them with your Armylings. This
places them in a situation where they need to make them in order to keep
up with yours. When they do, you burn them, and reap your trophy
reward.
A second problem: "requires at least one other Gehenna card" Blood Trade
serves as the universal 'filler' Event, requiring no hand size reduction
and possessing a rather negligeable ability. Looking through the Events
I could not find any other that were of particular use to the strategy -
The Unmasking gives them intercept, which doesn't suit when you're using
a deck with +1 stealth rushes.
Trophies:
On to trophies, and which ones are particularly good with this kind of
deck. I suppose that I should preface this section by saying that a
good splash of trophies is worthwhile - different trophies are useful
against different deck types. Against a rush predator Safe Passage is
very helpful if you've got a core vampire, while Clan Loyalty might be
good if you're power bleeding a mono-clan deck. It's very usefull to
give Domain to someone with a lot of blood and a gun, as that vampire
can single handedly fight off whatever AA hoard lies behind you. Since
blood is always handy Hunting Ground cannot be ignored. As it is
inevitable that you're going to want to eat a vampire at some time, a
single Diablerie can at 2 stealth and no BH prove incredibly useful.
The one that I believe I value the highest though is Trophy: Progeny:
"Master. Trophy. If this card would be moved to a non-sterile vampire,
that vampire's controller takes control of it instead, and it becomes a
non-unique vampire of the same clan as that vampire with 2 capacity. He
or she may go through his or her library (shuffle afterwards), ash heap
or hand to find a Discipline card for this new vampire. Move 2 blood
from the blood bank to this new vampire."
Not only does it give an up to 3 capacity minion with a basic
discipline, it also makes it the same clan as the Trophied vampire (good
for !Tor and Palle Grande), and provides 2 blood for no effort. There
is no need to hunt, and they can act immediately. Since you can play
them as master cards, you may have two or three out that trigger
simultaneously, giving you a stupid leap in minions (Consanguinous Boon
=> Voter Cap, anyone?).
Sample Deck:
Deck Name: KMW Experiment 2
Created By: DR
Description: Using Marcus Vitel as your titled vamp and many small cap
!Malks create a sabbat army to defeat your foe... Using Absimilard's
Army and KMW Trophy tech.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 13, Max: 40, Avg: 6.42)
----------------------------------------------
5 Marcus Vitel DOM FOR OBF OBT PRE 10, Ventrue, Prince
2 Roger Farnsworth aus OBF 4, Malkavian antitribu
1 Yorik dem obf 3, Malkavian
antitribu
1 Boy Toy dem 2, Malkavian
antitribu
2 General Perfidio Dios dem obf AUS 5, Malkavian antitribu,
Bishop
1 Idalia AUS dem 4, Malkavian
antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (28 cards)
1 Auspex
3 Blood Doll
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Fragment of the Book of Nod
1 Hungry Coyote, The
7 Obfuscate
2 Parthenon, The
1 Specialization
1 Trophy: Diablerie
1 Trophy: Domain
1 Trophy: Hunting Ground
7 Trophy: Progeny
1 Trophy: Safe Passage
Action (19 cards)
1 Anima Gathering
2 Computer Hacking
2 Conquer the Beast
1 Entrancement
2 Kindred Spirits
4 Red List
7 Sibyl`s Tongue
Action Modifier (16 cards)
7 Faceless Night
2 Freak Drive
7 Lost in Crowds
Reaction (4 cards)
4 Deflection
Combat (7 cards)
7 Concealed Weapon
Equipment (8 cards)
1 Enchanted Marionette
7 .44 Magnum
Combo (4 cards)
4 Swallowed by the Night
To be perfectly honest, this deck is rough, entirely untested, and
likely far less refined than it ought to be. Regardless, it's out there
for critique, and if anyone has any better ideas, I'm more than willing
to listen. Marcus Vitel is the keystone because he gives all of your
minions (and you should be making like baby !Malks) get +1 bleed against
Camarilla vamps, though his capacity is unecessarily high. It might be
better in fact to find a low cap !Toreador and Palle Grande with them
(quarterbacked by Ian Wallingford). In fact... that seems like a much
better idea - I'll make that one next.
Deck Name: KMW Experiment 3
Created By: DR
Description: Much like number 2, this deck uses AA and RLs allies to
make minions. Use Palle Grande to give them all + bleed and go to town.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 14, Max: 26, Avg: 5.25)
----------------------------------------------
3 Ian Wallingford aus CEL PRE 6, Toreador antitribu, Bishop
2 Jessica AUS CEL OBT PRE 7, Toreador antitribu,
Bishop
1 Carter cel 2, Toreador antitribu
1 Lolita for pre 3, Toreador antitribu
1 Remilliard AUS pre 4, Toreador antitribu
1 Cristos Mantigo aus cel dom obf pre 5, Toreador antitribu
1 Creamy Jade aus cel PRE vic 5, Toreador antitribu
2 Jost Werner ani AUS PRE 6, Toreador antitribu
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (36 cards)
1 Barrens, The
3 Blood Doll
2 Dreams of the Sphinx
5 Fortschritt Library
1 Hungry Coyote, The
3 Palla Grande
2 Parthenon, The
8 Presence
1 Specialization
1 Trophy: Diablerie
1 Trophy: Domain
8 Trophy: Progeny
Action (24 cards)
4 Enchant Kindred
4 Entrancement
2 Intimidation
2 Legal Manipulations
2 Mind Numb
6 Red List
2 Social Charm
2 Purity of the Beast
Action Modifier (4 cards)
4 Aire of Elation
Reaction (4 cards)
2 Quicken Sight
2 Wake with Evening`s Freshness
Combat (11 cards)
7 Concealed Weapon
4 Pursuit
Equipment (7 cards)
7 .44 Magnum
Though I haven't taken the time to make a deck like this, I'm certain
the theory is sound. I've been poking around on the Path of Blood
asking about how people have reacted to an AA hitting the table, and it
seems like universally people do take advantage of it, making this
notion viable enough to try. Please let me know what you think, what
means could be used to economise/generally improve the concept.
Regards,
Derek Rawlings
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