Study: Most American Adults Flunk Basic Science

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't think science expenditures should be increased at the federal level. Science is the biggest waste of money I can imagine. For the amount of inventions and discoveries that are worth a damn, there are 1000 more that aren't.

By making science a private sectored investment, you would have scientists working on useful applications to produce something of profit rather then curiosity. Why do we need to know what noise was made during the big bang? When it comes to innovation and industrial growth in regards to science, it came from private companies.

Technically, you would get it wrong if you said it takes the Earth 365 days to revolve around the Sun. Its actually around 365.24 days.
 
Oh I know what the blame! CREATIONISM! But deep in the surface, it's really religion.

My book says the universe 6 days, and we were created in the image of god (even though god is suppose to be immaterial.....), etc. is the problem.

I'm glad I have a love of science, hopefully my generation. I'm 20 btw, will not be like this in the future.
 
Sigh, it appears there are people on here who are a example of the failing education system, which is the real problem, Take, curnel_d for example.

400 years ago we thought the world was flat? Um... NO. Even the Ancient Greeks knew it wasn't, and one,Eratosthenes, figured the circumference to 1% of it's actual size. And I really hope you are joking about the worlds age, and the global flood....
 
[citation][nom]falchard[/nom]I don't think science expenditures should be increased at the federal level. Science is the biggest waste of money I can imagine. For the amount of inventions and discoveries that are worth a damn, there are 1000 more that aren't.By making science a private sectored investment, you would have scientists working on useful applications to produce something of profit rather then curiosity. Why do we need to know what noise was made during the big bang? When it comes to innovation and industrial growth in regards to science, it came from private companies. [/citation]

I am very sorry to hear that. I can understand your point of view. However that fact is that a lot of major break tough in the history are base on something which NO USEFUL or USELESS at that time. E=MC^2 may not mean anything to most of people at that time (actually even now), but without it we may not have our neuclear power plant. With out that oops from Dr. Alexander Fleming we won't have any antibiots these days. People may think studying NO (Nitric oxide)is stupid, but it is that stupid study lead to cration of vigara which save million of man on this earth. 😉 People may think studying bacteria in hot spring is useless, but the heat stable enzyme (Taq) discovered from those bacteria is now the fundation of most (if not all) DNA/RNA study, and most of drug discovery. Just name a few.
There is a reason why US is great and powerful because we own a great protion of advanced technology which are based on those great "not so useful) science discovery.
I am not supporting of unlimited budget and just shooting in the dark kind of experiments, but if there is a question to ask and there is a retionale to support it, it may worth our effort to spend time and money on it.
By the way, putting science to private company only is not going to do anybody good. Because we will never find a way to "cure" disease, since from a business point of view keeping people alive without curing it will bring much more money to the company...😉 Think about it, if they cure all the disease... where are they going to sell the drug to..😉
Another point, most of private companies do not fund any research which last more than 5 years and unfortunately a lot of basic science research require more than 10 years to make some break through.
Unless you prefer US to be the follower in science and technology instead of the leader in the world, otherwise this is the price we have to pay for being the No. 1 for now and for the next 20 30 years.

 
And thus, our leap years. OK, Im old, ancient. As my father used to say, when he was in the navy, it was the days of iron men and wooden ships. Anyways, these tests have been conducted every year for years, and the results have shown great declines over the years. Back when I was a kid, those no good fundys etc ruled the day, and the science numbers were way up. Im thinking of 2 things here. One was already said, its how we think, or whether we do, and 2, were soooo open minded today, its as if out brains fell out on the way.
 
Wow falchard is utterly retarded. "Why do we need to know what noise was made during the big bang?" Uh what? Ignore that fact that sound would not have been created as there was no matter yet, only energy after the big bang.

Oh and jaydeejohn, no just no. Fundies did not rule the day, unless you were 10 around the scopes trial? Only today is what science says a issue, instead of teaching, the education system is being tied down by fundies. They are the idiots running the show. Then we have bad parenting, partly can be blamed on the fundies.

Countries like Japan are not bogged down by such issues, this is why they are racing past the USA in terms of education.
 
[citation][nom]kami3k[/nom]Sigh, it appears there are people on here who are a example of the failing education system, which is the real problem, Take, curnel_d for example. 400 years ago we thought the world was flat? Um... NO. Even the Ancient Greeks knew it wasn't, and one,Eratosthenes, figured the circumference to 1% of it's actual size. And I really hope you are joking about the worlds age, and the global flood....[/citation]
Yes, I was exagerating about the date that the theory was submitted about a round world, and I was/wasnt kidding about age. (It's up to interperatation, but I know their are flaws with the theory. But it's fun to think about.)
But a flood on a world-wide scale has been proven and documented. Look it up, hot-lips.
But according to your first post, I would really think your comment about me is the opposite in fact. It's apparent that you're not interested in the persuit of knowledge and theology, but more in knowing that you're right and blinding yourself to the rest of the world.
 
[citation][nom]falchard[/nom]I don't think science expenditures should be increased at the federal level. Science is the biggest waste of money I can imagine. For the amount of inventions and discoveries that are worth a damn, there are 1000 more that aren't.By making science a private sectored investment, you would have scientists working on useful applications to produce something of profit rather then curiosity. Why do we need to know what noise was made during the big bang? When it comes to innovation and industrial growth in regards to science, it came from private companies.Technically, you would get it wrong if you said it takes the Earth 365 days to revolve around the Sun. Its actually around 365.24 days.[/citation]

You can't say for sure that the noise the big bang made can't be applied to a useful invention. Remember obscure knowlege can be integral to a lot of useful things. For instance it was people with degrees in pottery that created the heatshields for spacecraft. So not everything is linked in a obvious way and seemingly useless info can become vital very quickly.
 
Ironically the fact that they even put the second question in proves that the scientists themselves have a pretty limited understanding of what genuinely counts as science, which leads me to believe that the real problem isn't that we aren't teaching science, it's that we aren't teaching philosophy.

Only with a proper understanding of philosophy and history can you even appreciate science for what it really is.
 
[citation][nom]eklipz330[/nom]i dont believe this at all.. this doesn't sound realistic at all.. im curious at where they took these 'samples' from...[/citation]
California, with people that were willing to take a phone survey.

Suffice it to say, they certainly hit a couple specific demographics.
 
Although I agree that there is an over-generalization of the population based on how the sampling was done, this is far from new news.

I remember a PBS documentary on the state of US education. While students from the USSR were drawing near complete maps of the globe (including most countries in Africa, North and South America, and Asia), the US example showed two circles with one labeled USA and the other Europe. Almost no in the US could answer what two countries bordered the continental US, and when asked where Nicaragua was located one person answered "I don't know - isn't it off the coast of Vietnam?"

I recommend the documentary "2 Million Minutes", that compares 2 students in the USA's sports obsessed and mandatory education system with 2 students from India and 2 students from China (at the high school level). I also recommend reading Philip K. Howard's "The Collapse of the Common Good: How America's Lawsuit Culture Undermines Our Freedom" to see how a sue-happy culture and unwillingness to do anything not defined in a contract have adversely affected US society.

Just like as we now recognize in agriculture that large mono-crops are detrimental to the long term viability of food, our mono-cropping style of educating all students for college is equally detrimental to the viability of US intellectualism.

I am constantly hearing about program cuts. They get rid of arts, music, and non-athletic after-school activities and focus on No Child Left Behind skills. Schools are now massive preparation courses so the schools to meet federal guidelines.

Are all people created identical? Do all students hold equal ambitions to go grossly into debt and get a college degree, learn by reading textbooks, and have equal aptitude for math and science? No. Personally, I say throw out all those advance math and science courses and teach basic finances (how to balance a checkbook, evaluate loan terms, and make a personal budget) and art/music. Our first duty is to instill in them skills to use in their daily adult life, and the second is to instill a desire to learn - that is why I support maintaining fun courses like art.

Also, lets get rid of mandated high school education. Instead make it a right - if a student and their parents don't want them to attend high school, then there should be no reason to force them to go through all that college prep. Let them go into an apprenticeship program for a trade skill or enter the unskilled labor market. Those that truly wish to be educated will still have the right to an education, and the state will be required to provide that education - but having those who truly do not wish to be there and would be better off gaining real-world skills would no longer be disrupting education.

As for me, I know I am not perfectly educated - especially in comparison to foreign students. I stopped going to high school in mid-sophomore year. Role playing games sparked in me a desire to learn, and with no sleep the night before I got my GED with no less than 95% in any category (and several at 99%). I've worked dead-end jobs, and went back to school in 2004. I graduated with a liberal arts degree from a technical college and transferred to a university where I am in the honors program. Despite all this, I know that many high school students in foreign countries know vastly more than I do, and that my education is poor. My own sense of entitlement was one of the bigger barriers - I felt I was entitled to luxury time, minimum homework loads, and good grades. I ate up that line about 'you can be anything you want'. Its a lie, and one we need to stop teaching.

The point is this: we need to kick everyone - the system that paralyzes teacher, the teachers who are afraid to risk teaching, the parents who say good grades should be given for trying, and the students who think just showing up should give them a diploma. We are all to blame for our rotted brains.

Sorry for the long and ranting post. Thanks for taking the time to read it.
 
I would disagree with some of the comments. Its not about these subjects coming up often, its more about general knowledge. The fact that other countries which do not play an important role doesn't mean that you shouldn't study about them. There's more to learning or understanding other countries. Its about culture. I'm not from the west, yet I can name all capitals of every country, all the 50+ states in the US - not because the US plays an important part of the world, but we had to learn world history - which informs us of how America got colonized and how it came to be a nation today.

I remember one incident on a forum when there was this American guy arguing with an Austrian guy. In the end, the Amerian guy got so pi$$ed off at the Austrian guy and told him "go fxxk your kangaroos". That was priceless... He can't differentiate between Austria and Australia. Many Americans hardly knows what other countries are like. Its not only Geography, there are so much more that I've found out while I was travelling in the States. I also find the same issue with some parts of the UK. So..the question is, is it the education or is it the person him/herself?
 
@mdillenback

very insightful, you might have not graduated from hs, but THEM ARE WISE WORDS SON

this is my second year of college, and all i meet are intelligent people... but making school more of a right than mandating it just seems so logical... AND if you put mandatory requirements, things should really work well... but public school should stay public for whoever wants to do it... and school does keep kids from doing dumb things in the streets of nyc, keep that in mind
 
[citation][nom]curnel_d[/nom]I dont care who or what science institute, text book publisher, or theorist decides what the 'mass' should learn, but carbon dating itself is based on theory. To base facts like "Only 59 percent of adults know that the earliest humans and dinosaurs did not live at the same time." ~ and it's exactly why 400 years ago we still thought the earth was flat. Based on some of the most accurately recorded information since the begining of time, The world is roughly 33-34 thousand years old.

So to assume that dinosaurs came first just because they have more carbon buildup on their fossilized bones just makes an ass out of yourself, and every one you teach it to.[/citation]

So what world do you come from that has developed life, built space craft in 30,000 years and made it to this planet we called Earth?

You'd be in the group of Americans "who thinks dinos and man lived together" either through bad schooling or religious reasons. And yea, there are people today who STILL THINK the world is flat.

Carbon dating works very well and is based on facts and calibration methods. But Carbon dating is only good for about 60,000 years - which is older than you're Earth and useless on dino fossils. There are other forms of dating materials on this and other planets that you are not aware, do some research. Also easy to work with is what we call Ice Core Samples, these are good to almost 800,000 years ago (the becomes to compressed at that point that its all mixed together. Hmmm... that's about 700,000 years past your "Earth was made 30-34k years ago".

There are NO descriptions of living dinos in recorded history. Fantasy dragons or Crocs (which ARE living dinos, in a sense) yes. Cave men drew the creatures they saw... none of them are of T-rex, raptors or other 30ft tall monsters.

The Earth is about 4.5Billion years old (give or take 1~100 million years) based of the study and research of people far smarter than any of us on this board.

Look up: carbon dating, ice core, Radioactive Decay, meteorites. Martian meteorites and moon rocks have been dated to 4.5billion years. Our planets formed roughly about the same time... and continues to change today as the Earth is always a changing planet. I am guessing you didn't go to ANY school to disregard the information that is considered sound because of your beliefs. Its called fake science to MAKE your DATA fit into a structure that you want... ie: to fit your bible's timeline in which God created everything about 25~40,000 years ago (depending on WHO is preaching).

 
[citation][nom]falchard[/nom]I don't think science expenditures should be increased at the federal level. Science is the biggest waste of money I can imagine. [/citation]

Things we wouldn't have without Science:
The computer you're using
The internet you're using to share your thoughts.
Medical science which keeps you and your kids healthy (or helps anyways)
Understanding our world so that we may survie in it.
The airliner you flew in to other parts of the country or world.
Winning the war against Germans and Japanese in WWII
Making skyscrapers, building roads, making cars the way they are today.
Your CELL-Phone (you do have one), that is built based on science of the past.

Whats your computer today? Some sore of dual-core CPU? Well, that 2000mhz CPU didn't JUST happen, it took 30 years to for the home computer to go from 1mhz to 3000mhz we have today. It requires steps, experince and abilities to properly make the very complext computers. The typical cellphone's motherboard is about 1"x2" and is MORE powerful than a typical $2000 1985 computer.

The DVD player you have, the HD-TV you use to watch football and porn is made from science. The software used to control all these things are made by programs which are made by science. None of these things are made by magic.

What does a country look like that has NO or little science? Look at a typical Afriacan or South American tribe.
 
[citation][nom]kami3k[/nom]Sigh, it appears there are people on here who are a example of the failing education system, which is the real problem, Take, curnel_d for example. 400 years ago we thought the world was flat? Um... NO. Even the Ancient Greeks knew it wasn't, and one,Eratosthenes, figured the circumference to 1% of it's actual size. And I really hope you are joking about the worlds age, and the global flood....[/citation]

finally the voice of reason
 
[citation][nom]curnel_d[/nom]So to assume that dinosaurs came first just because they have more carbon buildup on their fossilized bones just makes an ass out of yourself, and every one you teach it to. [/citation]

You had me up to this point. You're slamming carbon dating, but don't even know up from down, literally, as carbon dating is based on the DECAY of carbon, not buildup. Secondly, it was mostly the Catholic Church of the era that was pushing flat-earth theories and executing anyone who suggested a heliocentric view. The parallel here would be that Galileo would be treated the same as carbon-dating scientists.

I'm a Christian too, but like to believe that science can happily coexist with God. He built a consistent, predictable world where things. God likes to summarize things with parables, analogies, artful language, etc. Yet the basic creation was first there is light (the Sun), then there is the Earth and eventually water as the world cools, then come simple lifeforms and plants, then animals and more complex life, then eventually come humans. Evolutionists and Theologists agree on the order, just Christians tend to adhere to a literal 6-days as in six 24-hour periods, no more. There's a great deal of precedent for time analogies, from II Peter 3:8 to Genesis 41:26.
 
[citation][nom]curnel_d[/nom]So to assume that dinosaurs came first just because they have more carbon buildup on their fossilized bones just makes an ass out of yourself, and every one you teach it to. [/citation]

You had me up to this point. You're slamming carbon dating, but don't even know up from down, literally, as carbon dating is based on the DECAY of carbon, not buildup. Secondly, it was mostly the Catholic Church of the era that was pushing flat-earth theories and executing anyone who suggested a heliocentric view. The parallel here would be that Galileo would be treated the same as carbon-dating scientists.

I'm a Christian too, but like to believe that science can happily coexist with God. He built a consistent, predictable world where things. God likes to summarize things with parables, analogies, artful language, etc. Yet the basic creation was first there is light (the Sun), then there is the Earth and eventually water as the world cools, then come simple lifeforms and plants, then animals and more complex life, then eventually come humans. Evolutionists and Theologists agree on the order, just Christians tend to adhere to a literal 6-days as in six 24-hour periods, no more. There's a great deal of precedent for time analogies, from II Peter 3:8 to Genesis 41:26.
 
[citation][nom]Tindytim[/nom]This one makes some amount of sense, as it's not as important as knowing how long a year is.What are you talking about? God created Dinosaurs in the same day he created Adam and Eve. Of course Dinosaurs and people lived at the same time.I think this information is great for children during their formative years to spark interest in a certain field or subject, but beyond that, people usually only remember what is necessary.We don't all need to be polymaths.[/citation]
Lol you talk about science and yet you come and talk about god and dynosaurs :)) this happens to ppl with imaginary friends in the skyes :) Religion is full of bullshit open your eyes for once.
 
I think Hellwig was right. Basically US Public Schools, with the help of "No Kid Left Behind" have created tests to prove that students know things. The schools that have a high number of students pass those test get rewarded, those that have a low number get punished. With that framework, the schools work on having the students pass the all important tests. Once you have passed you move on to the next subject. We do not teach people how to learn, how to use tools, how to reason and analyze information. Then we wonder why these same people can't remember the answers to questions asked 10, 15, 20+ years ago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.