News Switch 2 devs are already bleating about performance issues — Donkey Kong Bananza director reveals challenges

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I feel like I'm the only one who can't stand games that use the "hit stop" effect. I find it to be an annoyance and distraction rather than a way to emphasize impact.

I'm sure the performance issues of Donkey Kong Bananza could be resolved if Nintendo directed less money towards their legal department and more towards their development studios.
 
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Nothing like brand new hardware already being crushed from practically day 1.

Frame rate drops? Meh, just insert fake fake frames. Yes, I used fake twice for a reason. 😛
 
It's obvious that Nintendo is spending just enough to get a minimum viable SoC for their hardware. Even with this relatively anemic hardware had they been using a 5nm class manufacturing node they should have been able to get much higher clock speeds in the same power envelope. I think the additional hardware will entice more developers to want to put games on the Switch 2, but they're likely still looking at something with the CPU power of PS4/XBO.
 
thestryker said:
It's obvious that Nintendo is spending just enough to get a minimum viable SoC for their hardware. Even with this relatively anemic hardware had they been using a 5nm class manufacturing node they should have been able to get much higher clock speeds in the same power envelope. I think the additional hardware will entice more developers to want to put games on the Switch 2, but they're likely still looking at something with the CPU power of PS4/XBO.
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The switch 2 silicon is 8nm as far as I know. If they put that same ampere and ARM architecture on 5nm it still would have been half a decade slower than what we have now.
 
helper800 said:
The switch 2 silicon is 8nm as far as I know.
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Yeah it uses the same refined 10nm process nvidia used for Ampere.
helper800 said:
If them put that same ampere and ARM chip on 5nm it still would have been half a decade slower than what we have now.
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They would have had to use N4 or newer if they had used Ada or Blackwell instead. They also clearly just took one of nvidia's existing designs and tweaked it slightly (there was no Ada Jetson and I don't believe Blackwell has launched yet). Had they used a better node the same hardware likely could have been operating at least 25% faster in the same power envelope. This wouldn't be perfect by any means but it would have been better.
 
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thestryker said:
Yeah it uses the same refined 10nm process nvidia used for Ampere.

They would have had to use N4 or newer if they had used Ada or Blackwell instead. They also clearly just took one of nvidia's existing designs and tweaked it slightly (there was no Ada Jetson and I don't believe Blackwell has launched yet). Had they used a better node the same hardware likely could have been operating at least 25% faster in the same power envelope. This wouldn't be perfect by any means but it would have been better.
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I see the real issue as the CPU cores being the weak link and the fact that that 120hz screen has awful latency. The GPU portion is actually really power efficient considering its performance and maybe 2-4 years ago would have been class leading, but not now. At 8.6 watts the switch 2 does about 75% the performance as a steam deck OLED which uses nearly 3 times the power.
 
All Nintendo has to do is release something like this imo, with different pricing options for levels different hardware. Maybe 2 versions? Either way, with Nintendo's pull in the industry, they could have gotten prices down compared to Ayaneo. They would also have a legendary console as far as performance and features. I long for a New Nintendo 3DS XL type console again. Who knows when my 3DS XL dies...
 
helper800 said:
I see the real issue as the CPU cores being the weak link and the fact that that 120hz screen has awful latency.
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I'd be surprised if the CPU cores were the problem but rather the very low clock speed. They're better than the cores used in the PS4/XBO (not that this means much) but the clocks are so low that I'd be surprised if the performance matched them. The graphics performance is actually pretty bad, but upscaling can crutch that whereas nothing is going to help the CPU.
helper800 said:
At 8.6 watts the switch 2 does about 75% the performance as a steam deck OLED which uses nearly 3 times the power.
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Steam Deck is 15W APU with 20W total isn't it?
 
The article said:
We note that 3D environment voxel engine games were seen on PC as early as 1992, with Comanche: Maximum Overkill. That game’s proprietary Voxel Space engine was apparently written entirely in assembly language for the best performance.
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I definitely appreciate the shout-out! I think that game tends to be forgotten, among other standouts of its era, like Doom.

Comanche_1992.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche:_Maximum_Overkill
​

However, its use of voxels was simply as part of a static landscape, if I'm not mistaken. What's different about this game is probably the way they interact with the environment, requiring full physics simulation of the particles being smashed. Still doesn't seem to me like an insurmountable performance problem, considering how game engines have been incorporating particle physics for decades, but it's definitely a lot more advanced than what Comanche did. Not only that, but Comanche's voxels looked chunky, even at 320x200.

BTW, note that the resolution of the above image is 320x200. This is an actual, full-res screen shot! Now, scale that up to about 13" (diagonal) and you can get a sense for what PC gaming was like, in the early 1990's.
 
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Switch 2 it's Cheap device with high profitable margins...
They will release the Switch 2 "super" powered by ngreedia soon
3nm better ngreedia graphics with new support for fake frames and DLSS.
Higher price for the same 80usd game
 
bigdragon said:
I feel like I'm the only one who can't stand games that use the "hit stop" effect. I find it to be an annoyance and distraction rather than a way to emphasize impact.
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No, me too. I won't play anything that uses it. It's too jarring and interrupts the flow.

About the only time I deem it acceptable is like when the Finish moves in Mortal Kombat would use that x-ray vision and super slow-mo. But, those were almost more cinematic and didn't interrupt the fight, since it was already over. BTW, that was one of the most graphically gorgeous games on the PS3. I almost couldn't believe what they managed to squeeze out of that console!
 
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thestryker said:
It's obvious that Nintendo is spending just enough to get a minimum viable SoC for their hardware.
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The problem is that they used basically the latest (non-current) SoC that Nvidia had on the shelf. Because Nvidia cancelled one that was supposed to launch after that, Nintendo ended up using something at least 2 years older than what they had probably planned.

That said, if Nintendo would be willing to dig into its pockets, I'm sure it could've afforded to have Nvidia customize something newer for it. Ultimately, they're just being cheap.

thestryker said:
I think the additional hardware will entice more developers to want to put games on the Switch 2, but they're likely still looking at something with the CPU power of PS4/XBO.
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Actually, no. Switch 2's CPU is better than that. It uses 8x Cortex-A78, which first shipped in flagship phones at the end of 2020. So, less than 5 years old. IPC-wise, they're probably almost on par with Skylake, other than the fact that they have just dual 128-bit vector pipes.

So, lightyears better than PS4's crappy Jaguar cores, which probably aren't even as fast as a Core 2. Almost within spitting distance of PS5 cores.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the Switch 2's CPU cores really aren't the problem. Its GPU is a problem, and maybe Samsung's 8 nm process node is a problem (to your point about achievable clock speeds). But, the GPU thing is really because these SoCs were designed primarily for embedded apps like robotics, and not gaming consoles. In light of that, they shrank the GPU and added NVDLA cores. So, its GPU performance is particularly lacking.
 
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bit_user said:
Actually, no. Switch 2's CPU is better than that. It uses 8x Cortex-A78, which first shipped in flagship phones at the end of 2020. So, less than 5 years old. IPC-wise, they're probably almost on par with Skylake, other than the fact that they have just dual 128-bit vector pipes.
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The core? Absolutely, way better, but IPC is only part of the equation. Only being able to run at 1/1.1GHz is the problem. The base XBO ran at 1.75GHz while the X ran at 2.3GHz and the A78 is not that much better than Jaguar to be in a new league of performance.

Passmark is hardly perfect, but it was the only thing I could think of that might have tests of both (very few identified A78 options period sadly and I tried to come close to clock speed matching): https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compar...5370-APU-vs-ARM-Cortex-A78AE-10-Core-2112-MHz
 
bit_user said:
That said, if Nintendo would be willing to dig into its pockets, I'm sure it could've afforded to have Nvidia customize something newer for it. Ultimately, they're just being cheap.
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That's kind of the point. The point is to be cheap. A nintendo console isn't necessary. XBox, PS5, and PC exist. Why go through the touble of manufacturing a console when they can just release on PS5/XB/PC like everyone else? Because.... really, a nintendo console is really just a $500 license key (which probably costs less than $200 to build) to access first party titles. That's all it is, and then you have to pay for the title. This is the Nintendo formula. That's why it's cheap. "Its the only way to access mario/zelda" (Until someone builds an emulator. Just give it time). Then they advertise "Ray tracing" and "4K" on it (Lol). Gotta have those big high-tech marketing buzz words on there for those who don't know how hardware actually works. Lol

Thanks but no thanks, I'll just wait for an emulator to come out. It will probably be a couple of years, but to me, that's worth the wait. 360p upscaled to 1080p + Fake frames doesn't appeal to me, even for first party titles.
 
Tegra hardware inside from almost decade ago and still they thinking about Cyberpunk on Switch 2. Hardware is so outdated and they sell this crap like new modern console....
 
JohnyFin said:
Tegra hardware inside from almost decade ago and still they thinking about Cyberpunk on Switch 2. Hardware is so outdated and they sell this crap like new modern console....
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Around a 5 year old architecture (both GPU and CPU) and a Tegra chip available about 3 years ago. I don't think they're doing right by their customers by any stretch, but you may as well get the facts right.
 
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