Synthetic Fuels Could Replace Entire U.S. Need for Crude Oil

[RADIO_ACTIVE]

And I thought we would be running on the oil from fast food by now...

 

[internetlad]

"We've got this great new fuel source. . . but it will be too expensive to impliment and take too long for anyone to care about it."

 

[XZaapryca]

Electric cars with quick swapping batteries (like propane tanks for BBQs) is the answer. We can make electricity dozens of ways and already have a network for distribution. Ethanol, oil, ng, tar sands, etc...is just dumb. Fossil fuels were the gift from nature to get us to a new level of technology. We were never intended to use the stuff forever.

 

[stevo777]

[citation][nom]waikano[/nom]Azraa there's a few problems with Electric cars the biggest being they don't go very far. Sure they are great for most commuters, but not for distance trips...this on the other hand http://www.hybridcars.com/news/tri [...] 50490.htmlGoes 2000 miles between fill-ups well as long as you are cruising around 70mph.[/citation]
No, there are ways around it, such as hot swappable batteries. A robot at a stop could swap a new cell in within seconds. The robot takes the depleted cell and puts it on a charger and, when it's ready, it goes into the next car--rinse/repeat.

 

[stevo777]

[citation][nom]soundping[/nom]Earths core makes enough heat to steam power us 100,000 years.[/citation]
That's because of Thorium decay, which is what we should be using for power generation--Thorium reactors. It baffles my mind that this technology is being held back.

Then again, all the major politicians probably own stock in companies like Exxon. They can't hurt their investments, now can they?

 

[stevo777]

[citation][nom]XZaapryca[/nom]Electric cars with quick swapping batteries (like propane tanks for BBQs) is the answer. We can make electricity dozens of ways and already have a network for distribution. Ethanol, oil, ng, tar sands, etc...is just dumb. Fossil fuels were the gift from nature to get us to a new level of technology. We were never intended to use the stuff forever.[/citation]
Yes, thank you. +1

 

[N0Spin]

Alternative Energy IS HERE! Fossil fuel dependence IS DEAD! NOT!

The problem with articles like these (and they are already more than a dime a dozen) is that they PERMEATE THE SUBCONSCIOUS of our culture of superficial readers who catch the 'fun' feel-good headline, accept it, and push it into the back of their mind with typical ‘the world is smiling today’ glee. Then those people parrot these things back as facts without ever really researching or weighing the ideas based on their true merits.

Now let me state, I am not anti-alternative, but I PUT LOGIC FIRST, and the concepts MUST BE realistic.

The ideas MUST:
#1 work AND be truly practical,

#2 be viably efficient to produce and use, wasting money or resources to produce less energy IS A FAILURE,

#3 NOT DEPLETE OR DIVERT vital resources from other IMPORTANT realms
(Ex. wasting food crops as a very inefficient fuel solution or supplement, while parts of the world starve),

#4 be relatively simple in average user application (or it just WILL NOT happen or succeed),

#5 NOT REQUIRE an already strapped government or the public, to foot the bill, to entirely redesign major national systems like our power grid and, or transportation system (EDISON never had to ask us to pay to develop the light bulb or build an electrical grid),

#6 NOT REQUIRE the people at large, to give up freedoms and completely up-end their lives (start living around central hubs and riding bicycles. Think Agenda 21, which is already in the planning books and boards near you), and

#7 NOT CREATE an entirely new host of issues (like nasty disposal requirements - think NIMBY).


So, following these general principles...

On ELECTRIC CARS:
- Electric Cars (though they SOUND NICE) at this point ARE NOT AN ANSWER! (as a large scale replacement paradigm for the majority of REAL AVERAGE, WORKING ADULT DRIVERS driving ~12000 miles per year)

- See Thom457's point on the weight issue, and the substantial un-addressed charging electrical grid issues.
(See point #5 and consider the rolling blackouts some areas experience during the cooling season, or what happens after a storm if you don't have electricity at your home for a day or week.)

- Longevity and costs: Replacing a single car battery in an ICE vehicle costs minimally ~$60-100, try planning and budgeting to spend 10's of thousands of dollars every ~8-12 years, OR just throw the ~$50K car away???
(Maybe the government will help with an additional subsidy or write off, while passing more of those early adopter costs onto the taxpaying public, who by a huge majority drive ICE vehicles.)

- Disposal with and without battery recycling creates a whole host of added issues

- Without recycling, in the salvage yard, we simply wait for these thousands upon thousand of batteries to leak into our environment and watershed areas.

- Even with proper recycling, we wait for accidents or environmental impact involving the transportation and, or recycling of said batteries.

- Then there's the inherent efficiency loss of just recycling the batteries. It costs more, (~6-10X more), to recycle the materials than to make them new from scratch.

- Your mileage and longevity may vary, but WILL DEGRADE. See the host of articles about Nissan Leaf and range for one example.

The idea of wireless electric roads REALLY SOUNDS WONDERFUL (and I like monorails / mag-lev / high-speed rail, etc.)....BUT WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT? [Point #5]

- When we can't even afford to maintain our roads, have the power grid brought up to meet current peak usage demands, let alone bury lines in coastal and other at-risk areas, adding a wireless power supply network to our entire highway system IS PURE FANTASY.

The idea of 'QUICK-CHANGE' battery packs like in your cordless drill-driver is a very nice proven technology, but how many of us have a FORKLIFT at home? Then there's an even expanded recycling issue.

In conclusion, until the vast majority of these issues are actually resolved, I cannot see how Electric Cars are a truly practical or green solution.

 

[stevo777]

[citation][nom]N0Spin[/nom]The idea of 'QUICK-CHANGE' battery packs like in your cordless drill-driver is a very nice proven technology, but how many of us have a FORKLIFT at home? Then there's an even expanded recycling issue.In conclusion, until the vast majority of these issues are actually resolved, I cannot see how Electric Cars are a truly practical or green solution.[/citation]

No, you wouldn't need a forklift at home. The battery would just get recharged as normal at home, and swapped out on the road with swapping stations (much like gas stations). Battery tech in the labs, and in developement should drastically cut weight and increase range. New Tech can be created to deal with disposal and free market comapanies can profit off such a business. It is not a pipe dream. It is being tried in Isreal. http://www.4evriders.org/2012/05/isreal-car-battery-swapping-in-israel/

 

[N0Spin]

stevo77:

These systems should arguably already exist given that electric cars have been around long enough to require change outs.

I did not follow the link (malware warning), and the 'swapping station' concept you now mention may become viable, but your propane tank example was akin to comparing changing a tire to swapping an engine or frame out.

These things are totally different in scale, and dramatically beyond the capabilities of the majority of drivers (maybe 75-90%).

As of today, these swapping stations (at least to my knowledge) DO NOT exist in this country (on any real scale). Name one major non dealer like a Pepboys that services multiple brands (ex. TOYOTA, NISSAN, FORD) today, and lists that service somewhere on their website or pricing board over the service center.

Even just the financial budgeting aspect of the change out requirement, is a MAJOR issue.

I would guess that a rather significant percentage of electric car owners have no current budgetary plan for battery replacement. It's just a whole paradigm change from figuring out your gas expenses, etc. for the week or month (and a lot more like a mandatory self deducted and managed 401K).

The rest of your response items basically talk about tech in the labs, in development, new tech, and is being tried which again by your very words means they DO NOT exist commercially, and thus ARE NOT yet viably available, hence my entire argument.

Real, existing 'concrete' technology, by definition IS stuff that we can already BUY, not tech that is still being dreamed up, played with in a lab and possibly 'tried' somewhere on small scale.

 

[kitekrazy1963]

Just as long as something like this is left up to the free market and void of government promotion. Look at how bad E85 fuel turned out. Keep government out.