System Builder Marathon: $625 Gaming PC

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]philosofool[/nom]It's not like there's just one good 450-500W PSU out there. I'm not buying that they couldn't find a less expensive, lower wattage, similar quality PSU at around $50-60.[/citation]

Why would they do that when an Earthwatts 650W cost $50 now?

 

[Pei-chen]

[citation][nom]dirtmountain[/nom]I'm gonna jump the gun here for the next $625 SBM build because i'd like to see an AMD quad build in that price range. I shoehorned in a 9950BE/790GX/HD4850 by using a questionable case/PSU/cooler, but still budget (as of this moment)9950BE combo with the 790GXhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Comb [...] mbo.140358Rosewill case combo with burnerhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Comb [...] mbo.1409202x2 GB DDR2 1066http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231166Xigma coolerhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817189005Xclio 500w PSUhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 68221482887200.11 HDhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814131125Powercolor HD4850Subtotal in my shopping cart is $624.90[/citation]
Stop suggesting crap. You want to run a 125/140 watt Phenom on a cheap PSU without active PFC is your choice. But for regular people, reliability, performance and power efficiency take priority.

 

[Guest]

One correction, the Three Hundred has 2 front intake fan mounts for 92mm not 120mm as stated. Off the top of my head I think the side intake fan mount is for 92mm as well.. but maybe it allows for a 120mm.

 

[pauldh]

[citation]One correction, the Three Hundred has 2 front intake fan mounts for 92mm not 120mm as stated. Off the top of my head I think the side intake fan mount is for 92mm as well.. but maybe it allows for a 120mm.[/citation]
The three mounts for optional intake fans are all for 120mm fans.
http://www.antec.com/usa/productDetails.php?lan=us&id=15300

 

[slomo4sho]

[citation][nom]JensL[/nom]One correction, the Three Hundred has 2 front intake fan mounts for 92mm not 120mm as stated. Off the top of my head I think the side intake fan mount is for 92mm as well.. but maybe it allows for a 120mm.[/citation]

As a owner of a Antec 300, I will assure you that the two front intake fan mounts actually do support 120mm fans.

What I have done to make the airflow better in the case with just the two stock fans was to remove the rear 120mm exhaust fan and mount it at the bottom front intake mount. Now cool air is being pushed in from the bottom and the top 140 mm fan is exhausting the hot air out of the top. Hot air rises so this set-up works very well to keep a system cool with only 2 fans

 

[727stretch]

I was pretty stoked to log in and see them testing the E5200 & HD4850, b/c those are what I have in my 24/7 rig, except I have a P45-based Asus P5Q SE/R (which I'm very happy with btw). So far the best OC I've got is 288x12.5 @ 1.30625 for 3.6 GHz. But that's with stock cooling. Temps are in the 33-35 range idle and 45-47 range load. I am going to try what they did and lower the mult. a bit and raise the FSB, and maybe get a little bit crazier if I throw in the Zalman 9700 I have sitting around. As for the HD4850, I have the Asus version and it runs at 700 / 2360 even as a single slot, so their Sapphire dual-slot card didn't yield them higher speeds, at least for that setup. Anyhow after all this babbling, just wanted to say that anyone considering building a cheap rig, the E5200 ROCKS. For $85, you can't do any better, period. And to the dude that can't get his E8400 above 3.6, I feel your pain. I had an E8500 with the same problem, even on a 780i board.

 

[Guest]

That's actually pretty close to my build 4 monts ago: E7200 @ 3.8GHz, Arctic freezer 7, GA-P35-DS3L, Diamond HD4850, 2x2GB Corsair XMS2 DHX, WD 640GB, OCZ stealthXtreme 600w, Liteon 20x DVD-RW and even the Antec Three hundred case!. Almost dead on. I must say I've been extremely happy with this pc since, runs everything great!

I think Its good that THG is recomending my pc still 4 months later!
Joarangoe

 

[Guest]

Very nice article, from summary it seems the e5200 has a little more headroom than the e7200 in the mhz stakes, 4.3 is definately a great clokc for that chip. A seriously good build you have here and this article should be the answer to all NOOB Build Questions on the forum.
Well done on upping the spend on this build, now just imagine a $850 build, that would be truly where the sweet spot of performance over price would be.

 

[Guest]

Not all E5200s are so great. When you're not lucky, you get something like mine. I had to stay on 3.2 GHz (320x10.0, lowered the multiplier to get faster FSB) with reasonable voltage and temps - 1.375V. This is on a GA-EP45-UD3P board with non-stock cooler.
But I expected this (not being very lucky with cpus), and E5200 was going to be only a temporary solution anyway. In an year, I'm going to replace it with Q9550 or something similar when it will sell for reasonable price and stick with it.

And it seems that E5200s have FSB wall, not P45s. I tried 400FSB too and even with 7.5 multiplier it crashed immediately.

Nice article anyway.

 

[727stretch]

[citation][nom]Mirek_[/nom]...And it seems that E5200s have FSB wall, not P45s.[/citation]

I tried the E5200 in my EVGA 780i and it was not happy with that board at all. I could not get it over 267 x 12.5, at 1.4-ish, with a Freezer 7 Pro. The dang thing would freeze on Windows boot. So I'm not sure if you can make a blanket statement about the P45 or any model for that matter. I think it's a per-sample basis. Some parts (cpu, mobo, whatever) are just not manufactured "right", if you will. Kind of like cars & trucks that are lemons I reckon *shrug*

 

[sighQ2]

[citation][nom]Pei-chen[/nom]Great choice, let the AMD fan boys whiny; I would have picked the same setup if I am to build a cheap gaming PC.[/citation]
Spoken like a spintel fanboy. This is an old dually cpu. That's why it's cheap as in end of life.
See the AMD system that was avoided thru typical pro-spintel bias - yes, the one for 629 in the comments. The upgrade path is what's really interesting. Not to mention crossfire capable, and hi-def capable. Or be spoonfed end-of-life oldies. Here, I'll make it ez for u.

 

[sighQ2]

[citation][nom]dirtmountain[/nom]I'm gonna jump the gun here for the next $625 SBM build because i'd like to see an AMD quad build in that price range. I shoehorned in a 9950BE/790GX/HD4850 by using a questionable case/PSU/cooler, but still budget (as of this moment)9950BE combo with the 790GXhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Comb [...] mbo.140358Rosewill case combo with burnerhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Comb [...] mbo.1409202x2 GB DDR2 1066http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231166Xigma coolerhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817189005Xclio 500w PSUhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 68221482887200.11 HDhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814131125Powercolor HD4850Subtotal in my shopping cart is $624.90[/citation]

[citation][nom]Pei-chen[/nom]Stop suggesting crap. You want to run a 125/140 watt Phenom on a cheap PSU without active PFC is your choice. But for regular people, reliability, performance and power efficiency take priority.[/citation]

The Upgrade Path:
http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Sneak-Peeks-Phenom-II-Overclocks-To-5GHz/

The 650 PSU would be adequate with a 4850. With the upgrade path to PhenomII - PhenomII uses a lot less power - and threatens to shame i7, yeh, too bad about that too.

THG/spintel don't want you to know. But us AMD fanboys are laughing at your waning loyalty.

PhenomII will run on EXISTING AM2 boards, with a mere BIOS upgrade. (e.g. mobos with very oclockable 790GX chipset)

All of this AMD hardware is less than a year old. More like a few months old - yawn - wakey wakey

Sigh

 

[Meester Anderson]

Like the article and the new price point, as Im thinking of building a similar rig, though more emphasis on processing and less on gaming

Q6600 $180
Arctic Freezer 7 $25
ATI 4830 $100
GA-EP45-DS3L $95
Antec 900 +
Earthwatts 500 $130
WD 640 GB AAKS $70
OCZ 4GB DDR2-800
5-4-4-12 $20
Total $620

So the way I read it, i'm getting a much better processor, better case, faster/bigger hard drive, with a slightly worse graphics card and ram
My build is about $60 more expensive, as they didn't include rebates, but for me I feel the quad-core processor is worth the investment, as I hope to keep this build for a long time. The less powerful graphics card isn't a huge issue for me as I'm gaming on a 720p HDTV.

For gaming right this moment, however, Toms is right and an OCed, cheaper dual core is the way to go.

 

[pauldh]

[citation][nom]sighQ2[/nom]The Upgrade Path:http://hothardware.com/News/AMD-Sn [...] s-To-5GHz/The 650 PSU would be adequate with a 4850. With the upgrade path to PhenomII - PhenomII uses a lot less power - and threatens to shame i7, yeh, too bad about that too.THG/spintel don't want you to know. But us AMD fanboys are laughing at your waning loyalty.PhenomII will run on EXISTING AM2 boards, with a mere BIOS upgrade. (e.g. mobos with very oclockable 790GX chipset)All of this AMD hardware is less than a year old. More like a few months old - yawn - wakey wakey Sigh[/citation]
Contrary to your beliefs, we share your enthusiasm and high hopes for Phenom II and having a worthy AMD option for these SBM's.

 

[Onus]

Meester Anderson, I like that build. The Antec 900 is really cheap right now; even with an Earthwatts 500 I think less than you listed. The only thing I'd check is to make sure the RAM runs on the JEDEC standard 1.8V. Mushkin has some 5-4-4-12 that does.

 

[roofus]

[citation][nom]sighQ2[/nom]Spoken like a spintel fanboy. This is an old dually cpu. That's why it's cheap as in end of life.See the AMD system that was avoided thru typical pro-spintel bias - yes, the one for 629 in the comments. The upgrade path is what's really interesting. Not to mention crossfire capable, and hi-def capable. Or be spoonfed end-of-life oldies. Here, I'll make it ez for u.[/citation]

I expected alot more responses like this to be honest lol

 

[pauldh]

[citation][nom]roofus[/nom]I expected alot more responses like this to be honest lol[/citation]
Sadly, brand loyalty makes some such comments unavoidable.

Imagine the comments if we built such a system... that must rely on two combo deals, a cheap case and cooler, and a tier 5 power supply! Doesn't sound reliable to me as built, never mind crossfire capable with an interesting upgrade path as pitched.

 

[sighQ2]

[citation][nom]pauldh[/nom]Sadly, brand loyalty makes some such comments unavoidable.Imagine the comments if we built such a system... that must rely on two combo deals, a cheap case and cooler, and a tier 5 power supply! Doesn't sound reliable to me as built, never mind crossfire capable with an interesting upgrade path as pitched.[/citation]

I appreciate your point and the difficulties you refer to.

The thing is, you say that NOW. You don't say that before people like me make an AMD suggestion. This makes me look like some rebellious troll - and it seems I have to go there, do that, before the points are considered - and even then, the points and facts are not considered - but the disturbance is considered - and the facts and possibilities are never known to people in general. They only get what they are fed - or already know or believe.

Beyond the fanboyism - which is simply bs and disruption designed to prevent information, communication, and people making best decisions (ie antitrust marketing tactics (o this is so messy, right?), THG is theoretically fully capable of disclosure of relevant info without bias. Since marketing and advertising is in play regardless, people come to various tek sites seeking the real truth.

We all end up victim to some kind of pre-published dysinfo propaganda that is dictated by money interests, and we are all drawn in cos we are all interested in money in the first place. But the influences in play are from corporations, and we are simple folk who simply want the best deal. It's all distorted by egomaniacal competition (flaming) based on one person "knows more" than another, and the ensuing victim/abuser mentality that typifies flamewars on the wild and wooly internet.

It is not your fault. It is our problem. We seek truth, and are easily led astray. I am no better.

So constantly I see attempts at quality in this atmosphere of insanity. I constantly, in many places, "hear what you say, and see what you do."

Briefly, that's about the best I can say it.

Tests are performed and one brand is chosen and the biases are there. It happens because the real truth is dysfunctionally available.

(prefix "dys" means 'hard or difficult' ) (Latin) Many things function in a difficult manner.

Why do I bother? Cos I live in this world. So do you. And much of the difficulty is chosen ! We know not what we do !
(hard to accept)

Peace.

sigh

 

[sighQ2]

Rather than categories based on price, I would prefer a more philosophical approach - an open discussion on everything all at once. Kinda like, THIS you can do, or THAT, you can do - followed by the detailed implications of steps in the decision-making process. There are many options. That would yield a "choice chart" flexibly created by the individual enthusiast. Just an idea that could change the world

But when you first delete half the possibilities.... or when you only focus on price.... or brand.... or ocloks.... or crushing enemies in game.... or future upgrade.... or .... whatever - that's a closed minded approach. We can restart and reconsider. But if my personal security, self-esteem is lost and my self-appreciation is not allowed, then, wow, who's driving the bus? None of this can be written in stone. My choice is always the best I can do for me.

 

[Thorbaden]

Nice article. Im just curious how high of an overclock you can get an e5200 to without increasing voltage, then how high with increasing voltage but keeping intel EIST (or speedstep) enabled?

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]thorbaden[/nom]Nice article. Im just curious how high of an overclock you can get an e5200 to without increasing voltage, then how high with increasing voltage but keeping intel EIST (or speedstep) enabled?[/citation]
EIST can remain enabled unless you change the multiplier, which can cause issues (I haven't tested it myself so take with appropriate salt). I always disable EIST but keep C1E enabled when overclocked. For some reason I get stuck with a constant 6x multi with both enabled.

 

[gamefreak62]

I like the new price point, since it gives the breathing room for what a gamer would actually put in their system. I did notice that you could double the RAM if you went to a more generic latency when buying for another $20 USD, and that might've made a difference in the benchmarks if you were using Vista 64-bit if that Corsair article about having more RAM translates to lower end systems.

I also noticed that you guys continually use $60 power supplies on your systems, and I think that makes sense because you pay for the quality and you would need a better power supply for dual graphic card systems, but in a single graphics card system like this one you probably could've gone down a bit in the price range. I myself run a hec ORION 585-watt powersupply which I got for just under $30 in 2005, and it's yet to fail on me and has plenty of power for this kind of system.

Also, you guys used a 512MB 4850 from Sapphire in the review at $160 USD which is really the level a graphics card should be at for a newer gaming computer. However, I found a deal on Newegg for the 1GB 4850 from Sapphire $170 which is only $10 more than the one you guys used. I've often wondered about it, but I think having the same GPU with 1GB of RAM would probably perform a bit better with higher end games than the 512MB version.

Other than that, thanks for the article. It gives good reference points for building new PC's.

 

[gamefreak62]

Ah shoot, running through the other reviews it seems you used 32-bit vista. I guess that is the justification for using 4GB of RAM with lower latency. Sorry about that.

 

[thurst0n]

I don't understand why Tom doesn't include Operating Systems as part of their Build Costs.

 

[randomizer]

[citation][nom]thurst0n[/nom]I don't understand why Tom doesn't include Operating Systems as part of their Build Costs.[/citation]
They gave the explanation a while ago but I can't remember it. Besides, you don't always buy an OS with every new rig.