System Builder Marathon, August 2012: $1000 Enthusiast PC

[manicmike]

Just a quick question, is it possible that the $300 instead of $230 INCLUDED the "donor CPU" and they just forgot to mention it?

Also, there's really no point to sitting and QQing about and optical drive unless you live in magic land where you OS comes free of charge, preinstalled on the HDD of your choice

Lastly... Reading one article online and thinking you're a system building master, you DESERVE to deal with the issues of possible necessary BIOS flash/hardware incompatibility. You can read a step by step guide on how to cook something, but does that make you a master chef? No! So you have 2 options to be a successful system builder:

A) Do ALL your research, pick out ALL your parts before purchasing the first one, and make sure it is compatible
OR
B) Deal with the time (and money) consuming Trail & Error process.

Simple as that. Thumbs down, thumbs up, I could give a rats arse, I've had my 2 cents.

 

[manicmike]

I would rather have below -

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ffjQ
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ffjQ/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/ffjQ/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek LOKI SD963 52.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($117.86 @ Newegg)
Memory: Mushkin Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($42.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: OCZ Agility 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB Video Card ($299.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Case ($46.90 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair 650W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-206DBKS Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($94.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $972.69
(Prices include shipping and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-08-21 15:23 EDT-0400)

Quick note, since it seems like you haven't read many SBMs before... Part of the deal is that Newegg supplies all the parts. That's kinda of why it's "Sponsored by NewEgg"

 

[cleeve]

[citation][nom]cknobman[/nom]With that said though I have built a lot of systems (for a lot of people) and the very first thing I have always done is check compatibility before making a purchase. [/citation]

That's *exactly* what I did.

Went to ASRock's site, checked if the board was compatible with Ivy Bridge. Check.

Needed a BIOS update when I got it. BOOM. Done.

This has happened to me with new Sandy Bridge CPUs on P67 in the past. It's happened a million times. It simply comes with new CPUs, has for a long time. If you've never encountered it, you don't do cutting-edge builds. Plain and simple.

As for having to buy a donor CPU? Any half-decent PC shop will do it for free (or a small fee if they're jerks).

 

[RedJaron]

That's simply not true. It's more a Noob error not first checking the BIOS version that's printed on the box and/or label on the MOBO before slapping it all together.

You can only check the labels if you can see the box before you buy it. Good luck doing that online. Also, manufacturers update firmware on their devices without changing the packaging all the time. Sometimes the box on the shelf is fresh from the plant with the latest updates, sometimes it's been gathering dust.

Again, as stated I have no problem with an IB on an older LGA 1155 MOBO e.g. P67, but make it clear in the Article and don't bury the 'oversight.' Someone is going to clone your build and be very unhappy.

It is clear if you read the article. It's not relegated to some asterisk on a photo caption. It gets its own paragraph on the page "System Assembly." I think reasonable people would expect any notes about assembly to be there. It may be harsh, but anyone who wants to copy a system build just by skimming the title page and the parts list deserves what they get.

All that said, I think it was a mistake using a P67 instead of Z68. Admittedly I don't do high overclocks, so I'm biased, but I'd rather have Quick Sync than an extra 100 MHz. Since you've already got the benefits of IB over SB, those few extra clock cycles aren't terribly impactful. Granted, even Z68 may not have saved you from the BIOS problem.

I'm guessing the P67 was largely decided by the backlash last quarter of using the 670, 8GB RAM, and a SSD. If those parts were already accepted, then yes, it leaves precious little room in the budget for other components ( though I have to say I'm pretty impressed by that case for the money. ) The RAM and the SSD I can agree with, but a $400 670 means the build has to center on the card instead of the budget. But yes, had you left the 670 off, I'm sure there would've been a whole lot more complaining, so it's a largely thankless, catch-22 compromise.

To those complaining about the small SSD, I have to ask if you've ever used one before. There's no benchmark for "User Experience," and the SSD makes almost every aspect of the system more responsive. A 60 GB drive is enough to hold the OS, a few productivity apps, and one or two games.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]niknikktm[/nom]I too am at a loss as to why anyone would put an Ivy Bridge processor on a P67 motherboard and not a Z77 instead. Kinda like putiing a brand new Hemi crate engine in an 84 ford van.[/citation]Due to the width of the heads, it would have to go in back:

http://hooniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/lil-red.jpg

 

[loops]

I have to agree with the ssd and p67 issues in this build. Drop the ssd, keep the gpu, get a z77 mobo.

This thing is not functional out of the box.

 

[DeusAres]

[citation][nom]mayankleoboy1[/nom]i love how much difference a few months had on the performance.Just want to mention : i dont see the use of including an optical drive in 2012. i cant remember the last time i used an optical drive. And with digital sales outselling physical discs, i dont see why it is included. Its not about saving $15. Its about buying a part that you will be using less than a couple of times in an year.probably lesser.[/citation]

Ah, typical assumption....not everyone has your 50Mbps connection. I still have to put up with this 512Kbps connection simply because Centurylink is too lazy and self centered to lay down some fiber in my vicinity. The US's internet infrastructure brings a tear of pain and sadness to my eye.

 

[jaquith]

[citation][nom]RedJaron[/nom]You can only check the labels if you can see the box before you buy it. Good louck doing that online.[/citation]
Buddy if you're going to quote me then read everything I've said. I know the support issues with BIOS and Chipsets probably better than anyone, and my first post was a concern of the potential problems using older chipsets e.g. P67 + newer CPU's e.g. IB. My standing advice is to use a Z75/Z77 MOBO + IB (K).

I would not have installed the IB because I would have checked the BIOS version. Next I'd have installed a SB, flashed as soon as I could and then finished the build. In the Forum you'll never find me recommending a P67 + IB as a build in the first place to an OP - never!

Bottom-line, it's a bad choice of a MOBO on Paul's part and he should know it. It's a bad recommendation for others to follow and mimic. Folks like me that are system builder's have basic CPU's for BIOS flashing and testing on most if not all platforms, but the average Joe doesn't and would be screwed (wasted money).

(before I noticed Paul's buried caveat) => Further I have no problems with the P67, BUT you need to verify the IB is supported AND the BIOS (UEFI) has the minimum BIOS revision to support the IB CPU otherwise it will NOT post.

It's more a Noob error not first checking the BIOS version that's printed on the box and/or label on the MOBO before slapping it all together.

Deceptive Add $50+ to the build cost for anyone trying to copy this build. $10 TIM and $41 Intel Celeron G440 as a Donor CPU/RMA Shipping + Time/Repair Shop Costs.

Therefore, instead of that waste for 99.9999% of the people use a Z75/Z77 MOBO. The real total build cost is $100+ over the ($1000) budget.

 

[fulle]

I've seen a few people bring up Z75, so I would like to just remind everyone that Z75 boards don't support SRT.

Honestly, if someone on the forums wanted to build a similar system, NOBODY would recommend anything to them but Z77 motherboards. That is if the OP expressed that they want to use an inexpensive, small SSD, and they are overclocking their processor.

P67 - No SRT, and requires a BIOS update to post.
Z68 - BIOS update needed.
Z75 - No SRT
Z77 - No issues.

Z77 boards start start at about 100 bucks, and within just the Asrock brand, they have a Pro3 and Pro4 board at around the 100 dollar mark (100 and 110 dollars), so there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to recommend the P67 board....

I do enjoy checking out these fail builds though. It would be a little boring if everything was done right, and we had nothing to talk about.

 

[saikyan]

[citation][nom]Alchemy69[/nom]Bring on the usual motley crew of those who could have done it so much better.[/citation]

Usual nitpicking aside, I think everyone is in agreement that using a P67 chipset with an Ivy Bridge CPU is a stupid decision. It isn't even particularly cost effective.

 

[RedJaron]

Buddy if you're going to quote me then read everything I've said. I know the support issues with BIOS and Chipsets probably better than anyone, and my first post was a concern of the potential problems using older chipsets e.g. P67 + newer CPU's e.g. IB.

I read quite well, thank you. Perhaps you should take your own advice and read the entire article before posting a response to it ( as evidenced by your first post. ) But if your first post wasn't actually intended to be an ignorant question, maybe you should make your intentions clearer instead of burying them. But if you really do want me to comment on everything else you wrote:

First no surprise. It's frigging buried and not where I expected it to be, and it should be on the first page (WARNING) or by the MOBO info. I think we've covered that's it's not buried. And just because it's not where you expected it to be does not mean it was poorly placed or that others had a hard time finding it. Indeed, you seem to be one of the few who didn't spot the notice.

Deceptive Add $50+ to the build cost for anyone trying to copy this build. $10 TIM and $41 Intel Celeron G440 as a Donor CPU/RMA Shipping + Time/Repair Shop Costs. Possibly. Again, it's specifically mentioned they had a spare CPU. Between friends, family, and a local tech shop to flash the board, it's a decent chance this won't cost the majority of others extra cash. Guaranteed? No. A hassle in time? Likely, which is why I didn't say otherwise before.

Therefore, instead of that waste for 99.9999% of the people use a Z75/Z77 MOBO. The real total build cost is $100+ over the ($1000) budget. So are you assuming 99.9999% of the people looking at this won't have access to a spare CPU or other means to flash a board, or won't bother reading through the whole thing to see the warning?

Anyone giving me (-1) on page 2 or here for stating the following (see quote below) needs to explain themselves? It's a serious problem to have an incompatible CPU and MOBO, and there's no upside just wasted costs and time. Very few folks have a spare Sandy Bridge CPU handy to fix their brand new MOBO. Get over yourself, demanding "explanations" for why someone may disagree with your comments. Especially inflammatory and/or ignorant ones. And decide if you're trying to make a statement or ask a question.

That's simply not true. It's more a Noob error not first checking the BIOS version that's printed on the box and/or label on the MOBO before slapping it all together. "Noob error in not checking," eh? Except Don specifically said he checked the website first for compatibility. As for "checking the BIOS version that's printed on the box," do I need to repeat my response to that? The article mentions the problem was specifically anticipated, meaning they knew it was a possibility, and had a spare CPU handy for just such an eventuality.

Again, as stated I have no problem with an IB on an older LGA 1155 MOBO e.g. P67, but make it clear in the Article and don't bury the 'oversight.' Someone is going to clone your build and be very unhappy. It's been mentioned many times that a whole paragraph dedicated to the topic is not "burying" it. And I think I've also shown it was not an "oversight" since the prospect was anticipated. And as I've said, anyone who tries to clone a build without reading the build log deserves what they get.

Again, I have lost count how many FX & IB Post Failures I've answered in the forum due to the shipping BIOS not supporting the CPU. Sadly telling the folks they'll need to spend more to correct the problem goes over like a lead balloon. This build simply will add more frustrated folks in the forum. The Mythbusters have already proven a lead balloon can fly quite well.

Seriously, ease up. Stop considering your opinions as facts. It's a bloody Internet forum, not your job.

 

[Guest]

This is the CPU and video card of a $1400 enthusiast machine with everything else from a $600 budget gaming machine.

 

[Onus]

It is also possible that simply knowing he had a spare CPU available allowed Don to take a risk he may not have otherwise taken. After all, he works for a Tom's Hardware. Builders who have that luxury will no doubt take some chances that others might not. In any case, hopefully future builds will present a little more contextual information, perhaps an interim article spelling out the "rules" on tools and spare parts. For now, I think we ought to agree that this is officially a dead horse.

 

[geekapproved]

Tom's really dissapoints with these system builder marathos. P67? GTX670 over 660ti? I don't know who put's these things together but I could do a better job.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]geekapproved[/nom]Tom's really dissapoints with these system builder marathos. P67? GTX670 over 660ti? I don't know who put's these things together but I could do a better job.[/citation]

As has been said before, the 660 TI is worse than the 670 and it wasn't even out at the time. I can agree with the sentiments about P67, but the 660 TI argument holds no water, especially in this machine. The GK104 is simply too fast of a gaming GPU to be paired with a 192 bit GDDR5 memory interface without it being a very unbalanced card.

 

[Known2Bone]

a 60 gig SSD can be relevant to the marathon benchmarks if it is used as the scratch dick during the photoshop benches.... i would like to see it be used as such because BOOT TIME AND APPLICATION LAUNCH SPEED DOES NOT AFFECT THE SCORE! do that or have a boot speed benchmark so these extra expenses can be objectively justified.

 

[peterwl777]

Why do we often overlook the fact that if you're running games off your OS drive, the performance suffers?
I have an SSD for my Win7 OS and that's all that's on it.
Everything else is loaded onto sata drives.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]peterwl777[/nom]Why do we often overlook the fact that if you're running games off your OS drive, the performance suffers?I have an SSD for my Win7 OS and that's all that's on it.Everything else is loaded onto sata drives.[/citation]

It suffers, but not really in the FPS. The affects are mostly seen in lag and how long it takes some things to load. The SSD can be an advantage, but actual gaming performance is not improved much (although I can agree in that the experience can be said to be better).

 

[Onus]

a 60 gig SSD can be relevant to the marathon benchmarks if it is used as the scratch dick during the photoshop benches....

Uh, I think perhaps what you prefer to scratch, and when, probably constitutes TMI...

 

[eddieroolz]

A few months can make a huge difference, indeed! The parts bought in this SBM are just a step below the ones I bought in May, but at double the price (Canadian, however).

 

[oosyrag]

Hi, I'm a bit new to this, so sorry in advance if this isn't the place to ask for shopping advice. Seems like a Z77 mobo is highly recommended, but how might I go about picking one to go with the 3570k? I'm looking for a budget option that has 2 PCIe x16 slots, but beyond that I'm not even sure what kind of features I should be looking for or considering. I plan on overclocking conservatively. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[blazorthon]

Hi, I'm a bit new to this, so sorry in advance if this isn't the place to ask for shopping advice. Seems like a Z77 mobo is highly recommended, but how might I go about picking one to go with the 3570k? I'm looking for a budget option that has 2 PCIe x16 slots, but beyond that I'm not even sure what kind of features I should be looking for or considering. I plan on overclocking conservatively. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

You could consider this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130647

Also, this is probably a question that would have been better asked on the forums rather than on this article.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]oosyrag[/nom]Hi, I'm a bit new to this, so sorry in advance if this isn't the place to ask for shopping advice. Seems like a Z77 mobo is highly recommended, but how might I go about picking one to go with the 3570k? I'm looking for a budget option that has 2 PCIe x16 slots, but beyond that I'm not even sure what kind of features I should be looking for or considering. I plan on overclocking conservatively. Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks![/citation]And to think, this is a review site...did it ever occur to you that the "Motherboard's" link could be usefull?
[nom]blazorthon[/nom]You]http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Components,1/Motherboards,2/[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]You could consider this one:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813130647Also, this is probably a question that would have been better asked on the forums rather than on this article.[/citation]And then there's you....

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]And to think, this is a review site...did it ever occur to you that the "Motherboard's" link could be usefull?http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] rboards,2/And then there's you....[/citation]

You don't like the MSI Z77MA-G45?

 

[Crashman]

You don't like the MSI Z77MA-G45?

Have I tested it? Options my friend, we offer them options...