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System Builder Marathon, March 2011: Value Compared

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Tom & Co:

Could you consider an article on Performance PC vs. Xeon Workstation with similar chart comparisons? I'm a guy at home who works constantly in high-end prosumer and professional apps like Adobe and Autodesk applications, yet game it up on the same rig to relax and enjoy a night of StarCraft 2 or FPS games often. I'm always curious if it's worth the cost to put in a Xeon processor and Quadro card in my system vs the example $2000 PC you have tested out in this article. It seems that systems like the ones above would do just fine, but it would be wonderful to see an article exploring the worth of either.
 
This quote caught my attention.
"Topping our value charts, the question remains of whether or not the $500 PC is suitable to performance users. The answer is, unfortunately, no. Gamers are forced to sacrifice either quality or resolution to get playable frames above 1280x1024 consistently, and its target resolution was only 1680x1050 from the outset."
I'd like to see clearer definitions of various system levels. Performance, Gamer, General use, E-mail only, etc.... and perhaps builds that would target each level and the budgets they would cost to build. If a 3.4 GHz quadcore CPU and a $170 GPU don't make a performance or gaming rig, what do they make ?
 
This is a great series, thank you toms for your efforts.

IMHO, The $500 system is outdated and can't be compared in the performance department to the other builds. If I didn't have the money to buy the $1000 system, I'd buy the borad, processor, and continue along with the rest of my components until I have money to complete the build.

Having said that, I respect AMD for their excellent strategy. In 2009 they told us "Are you unhappy with your phenom processor?" "well Upgrade your board's BIOS and drop in a Phenom II w/o changing anything else in your system". That was an incredible argument vs. Intel who changed their socket three times in three years.!!!!!
 
[citation][nom]dirtmountain[/nom]This quote caught my attention."Topping our value charts, the question remains of whether or not the $500 PC is suitable to performance users. The answer is, unfortunately, no. Gamers are forced to sacrifice either quality or resolution to get playable frames above 1280x1024 consistently, and its target resolution was only 1680x1050 from the outset." I'd like to see clearer definitions of various system levels. Performance, Gamer, General use, E-mail only, etc.... and perhaps builds that would target each level and the budgets they would cost to build. If a 3.4 GHz quadcore CPU and a $170 GPU don't make a performance or gaming rig, what do they make ?[/citation]

They can make us breakfast possibly.I suppose you know it's not the raw clock speed that matters as there are several other factors that come into play. AMD itself used to talk about that when they were giving intel a run for their money and now they switched to the platform and integration arguments.

IMHO, Bulldozer can't arrive fast enough.
 
i'm tired and i'm forgetting if sandybridge utilizes triple channel memory, if sandy does utilize triple channel memory, that's a mighty big 20% performance hit the $1,000 & $2,000 pcs take.
 
[citation][nom]f-14[/nom]i'm tired and i'm forgetting if sandybridge utilizes triple channel memory, if sandy does utilize triple channel memory, that's a mighty big 20% performance hit the $1,000 & $2,000 pcs take.[/citation]Sandy Bridge uses dual-channel, and both machines had Sandy Bridge processors.
 
fwiw, caught the Xigmatek case on shell shocker for $30 shipped, and Biostar 870 is on sale for $70 shipped with $10 rebate.
Got the rest ($40 psu, $20 dvd-r, $40 memory). 212+ $30
So that's call it $220, with #300 left for CPU and Video card.
And yes $600 seems the sweet spot for builds if you put the money into Video card and Cpu.
The $500 build is a showcase of possibility, easy to go up from. Spending more would make it easier for those with more money to spend.
At this point the $140 Phenom II 955 just aboout maxes the usefulness per dollar, which leaves the video card of choice.
I expect the next $500 build will be Sandy Bridge I3, the comparasion will be very interesting, Expect Bulldozer the build after at one price point.
So it seems.
 
fwiw, caught the Xigmatek case on shell shocker for $30 shipped, and Biostar 870 is on sale for $70 shipped with $10 rebate.
Got the rest ($40 psu, $20 dvd-r, $40 memory). 212+ $30
So that's call it $220, with #300 left for CPU and Video card.
And yes $600 seems the sweet spot for builds if you put the money into Video card and Cpu.
The $500 build is a showcase of possibility, easy to go up from. Spending more would make it easier for those with more money to spend.
At this point the $140 Phenom II 955 just aboout maxes the usefulness per dollar, which leaves the video card of choice.
I expect the next $500 build will be Sandy Bridge I3, the comparasion will be very interesting, Expect Bulldozer the build after at one price point.
So it seems
Drat forgot HDD. $40-60 so $180 left. double drat !!
 
Phenom II X6 1090T performs better than Core i5-2500K and is hella cheaper. AMD mobos are cheaper too so get yourself 1000 bucks performance for let's say... 700$ and you get 2 extra cores and Radeon HD 6950.
 
lol, you got me there, but I look ONLY at multithreaded applications. I'm using 3ds max and vray2.0, and 10 seconds in rendering every single frame is a HUGE improvement for creating cg animation/movies. Anyway yes you get overall better performance with i5, in single threaded apps and in system overall. But what i meant is that you can save money on mobo and cpu there. Instead of buying basic 500$ old build with Phenom x4 CPU, put another 100$ and you get a lot better performance that is close to this 1000$ build. I'm just saying!

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Image-Rendering-3DS-Max-2010,2420.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Cinebench-11.5-Multi-threaded,2407.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-2010/Archiving-7-Zip-0.91-Beta,2429.html
 
The $550 build will definitely not be able to match the $1000 and $2000 just because of architectural deficiencies. But it's great to a poor university student like me that won't require to be gaming at the highest possible resolution at the highest possible detail. Heck, I tone everything down to lowest when I play CoD4 multiplayer just so I get consistent ~90FPS.

Also, I take issues with the fact that iTunes is used as a benchmark. A benchmark that's been optimized for Intel architecture doesn't have a place in a fair benchmark.

 

For the $500 system. Was wondering what a case with a PSU included be a little less expensive. I have had good luck with the IN WIN C589T.CQ350TBL Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 350W Power Supply and the predecessor to this case: IN WIN IW-Z589T.D400TBL Black Steel MicroATX Mini Tower Z589 System Cabinet - Mini-tower 400W Power Supply. They use a Powerman (oem sparkle) PSU.
I like a nice plain case with NO DOORS TO BREAK.
I believe I built a system with a PSU that came with a NZXT case and for a general build was quiet adequate. Though none of their case quiet fit my builds now. Also Antec cases back in the day, with Antec power supplies: Performance TX640B and Solution Series 3800B (broke door) and SLK1650B (beginning of no doors)
Wouldn't mind an article on a nice plain case with power supply for system builds. Preferably nice black case without doors.
 
The NZXT above goes for $40 shipped. The plain version of the Antec 300 IS $60. No Doors. The Inwin specs, or lack of them (no 3.3v= A or 5v=A) on site or with case. 12v1=11A and 12v2 =14A I do not find encouraging.
The power supply on sale separately is not the one in cases and lists $30/
Would I spend more for a Delta build Antec, you betcha.
The lowest cost case with the 400psu is $80 with no listing of power specs, nor is it listed separately.
I know I would nver use a HEC/Compucase 485w or 585w psus. I own them, and I looked inside.
Actually the Inwin $80 doesn't look too different from a black SLK-1650.
 
Point trying to get deal on combo. What I am interested in is getting a Decent PSU with case, not looking for all the bells and whistles like modular cables, SLI or Crossfire and such. A good solid case should be in the $45-$65 range. So your Antec 300 fits (Newegg) was: $69.95 now: $59.95 +$2.99 shipping. Looks like all the NZXT from Newegg come without PSU and there it was: $49.99 now: $39.99 + $9.99 shipping. Also not quite a plain case. Though the NZXT Beta Evo is a nice case. I think I used that one's predecessor before (PSU on top) for an ATX board (usually build micro ATX). Plus when on sale falls into my price range. Now the question is how much for a competent PSU?
Also what is criteria for a competent PSU. I am looking for Active PFC and 80 PLUS Certified minimum. For most systems 350 to 400 watts more than enough. Remember this isn't my gaming rig in the Antec TX640B, there are no monster video cards to feed. This is Performance And Value This build is for gram so she can keep up with her kids and grandkids, play some solitaire. For dad to E-mail his old service buddies play some cribbage. So I think were at about $50 including shipping for a PSU I would buy.
That totals to $95-$105 range for both.. Antec's cheapest combos are Antec New Solution VSK2450 Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450W Power Supply on sale for $90 +$20 shipping. Looks like model VP450 with no Active PFC or 80 PLUS Certified. The Antec New Solution NSK3480 Black/ Silver MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case 380W Power Supply is on sale for $95 + $15 to ship does have both Active PFC and 80 PLUS Certified. Though no real savings there.
That is why the In-Win Black Steel MicroATX Mini Tower Z589 System Cabinet - Mini-tower 400W Power Supply interest me so. From what I can tell Powerman OEM is Sparkle who made for PC Power & Cooling. Sparkle is made by Fortron (FSP). A PowerMan power supply is just a rebranded FSP power supply. Looks like it is 80 PLUS Certified. Would like more specs, but at $80 + $12 shipping when not on sale still just under my low end.
 
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