System Builder Marathon, Q1 2013: $1,600 Alternative PC

[dgould]

I in no was said my problems were caused by my cooler. I just found it interesting that a very similar build suffered from some possibly similar problems and thus might possibly have a similar cause. Therefore what I asked for was for more information on his issues, not a solution to mine.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]dgould[/nom]Could you define what you mean by the terms you used such as "system crashing" and "loss of memory stability"? I recently put together a build featuring a 3570k, an asrock extreme 4, and a relatively big air cooler (the cooler master hyper 212) and I am experiencing increasingly common system freezes where everything just locks up and stops. After reading your article I am wondering if my cooler could also be responsible for this. Finally, how did you diagnose the problems you were having to the processor and memory controller?[/citation]The program I found most-likely to initiate a memory error was PCMark. I decreased memory frequency until the crashes stopped. Changing memory didn't help, that only leaves the CPU and Motherboard. When errors started again, I decreased memory frequency until they stopped. When I eventually was unable to keep the memory stable at 1333, I knew that something was progressively getting worse with the PC, so I tried another board. Repeated the process of trying different parts until I realized the only thing left to change was the CPU cooler.

I've never seen a Hyper 212 (any version) damage a board.

 

[dgould]

Makes sense. Thanks, that is very helpful.

 

[Fulgurant]

I in no was said my problems were caused by my cooler. I just found it interesting that a very similar build suffered from some possibly similar problems and thus might possibly have a similar cause. Therefore what I asked for was for more information on his issues, not a solution to mine.

You seemed to be fixated on the cooler issue, based on what appear to be rather superficial similarities between your system and Tom's. That's all I was getting at. If you do want help, I'm sure any number of people would be willing to provide it either here or in the appropriate forum section.

If you don't want help, then that's fine too of course. By the way, the Hyper 212 weighs about half as much as the Noctua cooler featured in the article, based on the specs I could find. (Here, here, and here.)

 

[ioconnor]

The comment sections here are primitive too. How is it that we can't see all comments on one page? Please get out of the 1990s. Our computers can handle thousands of comments on a single page.

 

[nibir2011]

One thing you guys never mention that how you test the whole test bench.
Specially with this beefy nactua cooler what is the alignment of the case horizontal or vertical cause this would impact hugely on the g-force applied to the board by the cooler because of tension. I particularly do not like these tall coolers.

 

[gamejunky74]

Hello all first post here. Great build for under 1600.00 guys and gals.Thank you for giving us all some ideals on budget gaming and gear reviews.
Just build this system with parts from Newegg and Tiger Direct. My total was 1590.91 and to boot upgradable in the future. I can still add another GTX 680 and more storage down the road. With a larger PSU, faster ram and cpu (HT to boot). How much better is the System Builder Marathon, Q1 2013 than mine?
CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 299.99
MB: ASUS P8Z77-V LGA 1155 Intel Z77 174.99
Ram: G.SKILL Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866 79.99
SSD: SAMSUNG 840 Series MZ-7TD500BW 500GB SATA III 289.99
GC: ZOTAC GeForce GTX 680 4GB 469.99
PSU: COOLER MASTER Silent Pro 1000w Cert. Bronze+ 135.99
CPU cooler: Corsair H50 High Performance 59.99
Cases: Corsair Carbide Series 300R (Windowed) 59.99
Optical: Asus DRW-24B1ST: 24x DVD±R, 12x DVD±R DL 19.99

 

[g-unit1111]

This is extremely similar to my own build, if it had a Corsair 600T instead of a Fractal Design R4, it would be exactly my build!

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]nibir2011[/nom]One thing you guys never mention that how you test the whole test bench. Specially with this beefy nactua cooler what is the alignment of the case horizontal or vertical cause this would impact hugely on the g-force applied to the board by the cooler because of tension. I particularly do not like these tall coolers.[/citation]All those photos...like this one:

I understand that the visually impaired might be using a device to read the article and comments, to them I say, the CPU cooler fans blow towards the exhaust fan.

 

[jnkweaver]

I'm glad we weren't troubleshooting your build problems in the forums. That may have taken more than a few days to get right.

Love the build.

 

[buzznut]

I like the idea of a build that is more geared toward a high end user. What I mean is, building the fastest machine possible for the least amount of money is fine, but is that what YOU do? I certainly spend some time researching a case before buying, it isn't the last item on my list considering this will be my home for the next 3 years. The R4 is a fantastic case, and something worthy of a dream.

Dual graphics and 3 monitor setups aside, there's a lot more to a personal computer than frame rates or value. For me usability and form are just as important as performance. Also some folks might not mind their gaming rig sounding like a jet at take off, but I actually live with other people. So yeah, for a high end rig I do think noise levels should a be a consideration.

Also one has to take into account things like enormous heatsinks that dangle off of the motherboard with a bracket and a few screws. Then one is limited by memory choices, I think those factors have to be considered when choosing a cooling method. I would give up a slight advantage in cooling performance to put in an elegant AIO WC as opposed to a huge block of metal in the middle of my mid tower. Even better with a windowed case, don't know how many times folks have walked by my case and were simply amazed by the water cooler.

I dig this build because its a more balanced approach in terms of where the quality dollars are spent. Can anyone really bitch about the great power supply? Is it overkill? Not to me, when you consider that most of us do regular upgrades and future components may be more power hungry.

I wouldn't even consider going without a data drive, that's just silly. I like having a burner and a reader to save wear and tear on the burner. Its something that I've always enjoyed having and I probably always will. Could I use just one drive? Of course. Would I save 25 bucks? Yeah, but I wouldn't be happy about it. I use my card reader daily, so I wouldn't want to part with that. Its these little things that make a system your own, not the money you saved on a mostly adequate power supply or a less featured motherboard.

If you're gonna spend $1500 on a PC, it should probably be more what you have dreamed about than the best price/performance ratio you can achieve. I haven't missed the point of these articles, but I am glad to see that at the top end there is a bit more room for the intangibles.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]ioconnor[/nom]The comment sections here are primitive too. How is it that we can't see all comments on one page? Please get out of the 1990s. Our computers can handle thousands of comments on a single page.[/citation]

I think that most members here would agree with me when I say that having all of the comments on a single page seems less convenient than the current page by page method of displaying comments. I can understand asking for the option to choose to display the comments like that if you want to, but that is something better put in the feature request sections than in an SBM article.

 

[g-unit1111]

I wouldn't even consider going without a data drive, that's just silly. I like having a burner and a reader to save wear and tear on the burner. Its something that I've always enjoyed having and I probably always will. Could I use just one drive? Of course. Would I save 25 bucks? Yeah, but I wouldn't be happy about it. I use my card reader daily, so I wouldn't want to part with that. Its these little things that make a system your own, not the money you saved on a mostly adequate power supply or a less featured motherboard.

If you're gonna spend $1500 on a PC, it should probably be more what you have dreamed about than the best price/performance ratio you can achieve. I haven't missed the point of these articles, but I am glad to see that at the top end there is a bit more room for the intangibles.

I completely agree 100% here - it's your build, in the end if you're spending that much money on a system you should get what you want on it, having an excellent price / performance ratio is good, but ultimately you should build your build to your standards.

 

[Onus]

I just now banned that spammer, but his comment remains, even after a refresh. Hopefully that bug will get fixed quickly.

Anyway, I also agree 100% with buzznut. Other things besides FPS and purely objective bang/buck measurements are important, especially as the amount of money you're spending increases. Once you're at your minimum (or minimum+) performance requirements, other "comfort" items become a lot more important.

 

[ammaross]

I have a Scythe Mugen 2 RevB hanging off my ASRock Z77 Extreme4 with no issue. I'm leaning toward it being a specific cooler mounting system problem, as the Scythe Mugen is truly a huge cooler in line with this Noctua. The only bad thing I can say about the Extreme4 is that it's not an Extreme6. It even OCs beautifully, whereas the Gigabyte boards have had issues.

 

[brucek2]

[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]I think that most members here would agree with me when I say that having all of the comments on a single page seems less convenient than the current page by page method of displaying comments.[/citation]
I might agree if the page-to-page navigation was smooth, but this forum has perhaps the clunkiest "page turning" of any I use regularly. I'm referring both to actual load time and more subjective factors such as feeling like the page has locked up with no sense of progress vs. incrementally filling up as the data arrives. Also, I often find that two comments I want to compare or otherwise reference at the same time are on different pages which is awkward.

 

[morpheas768]

I think the word "Marathon" in the title, actually has a second more literal meaning now

Poor Thomas, what you had to go through....

 

[psychoph]

Is there an alternative to the crucial ballistix? It seems to be out of stock for the 1.35V version and now all they have is the 1.5 V version.

 

[Benjamin of Sa Do]

Surprise! You thought our System Builder Marathon ended last week, right?

No, it said there would be 4 prizes on the sign up sheet for the giveaways

 

[Aegean BM]

WHO are the winners of the four systems? WHEN did you ship the prizes?

 

[pnorman]

Although I can't offer detailed comments on the RAM issues, I have experienced problems that were traced to motherboard flex.

I had a server where pressure in the VRM region could cause boot problems. As I had a Noctua C14 heatsink on it, this was an obvious problem. An RMA fixed the problem.

I doubt the Noctua mounting method was causing any problems. The torque from the heavy D14 heatsink could have, but the mounts are very good at transferring that torque to the motherboard in a reasonable manner. It's just a lot of heatsink to mount.

 

[lokiharr]

I have looked around a lot for problems with Core i5 ram at 1.5V. I do not see anything.
I wonder if the author of this great article has had any second thoughts about 1.5V vs. 1.35V.
Hooray for your perseverance thru all the toubles.

There is extremely little 1.35V ram around for Asus boards (using their QVL list, not recs from ram makers).
I am doing my first build so I am very unsure about parts picking.
Would undervolting 1.5V ram to 1.35V be the equivalent to getting 1.35V ram?
I have the idea that doing so might screw up the timings.

I am surprised that a ssd with a sandforce controller was picked.
I see a *lot* of negative comments about sandforce. I have never had a ssd.

Thanks for the comment about the i5 2500K, mapesdhs.
I might change my mind and get it rather than the i5 3570K.

 

[Mac_McMan]

[citation][nom]lokiharr[/nom]I have looked around a lot for problems with Core i5 ram at 1.5V. I do not see anything.I wonder if the author of this great article has had any second thoughts about 1.5V vs. 1.35V.Hooray for your perseverance thru all the toubles.There is extremely little 1.35V ram around for Asus boards (using their QVL list, not recs from ram makers). I am doing my first build so I am very unsure about parts picking.Would undervolting 1.5V ram to 1.35V be the equivalent to getting 1.35V ram?I have the idea that doing so might screw up the timings.I am surprised that a ssd with a sandforce controller was picked.I see a *lot* of negative comments about sandforce. I have never had a ssd.Thanks for the comment about the i5 2500K, mapesdhs.I might change my mind and get it rather than the i5 3570K.[/citation]The problems were with 1.65V RAM plus motherboard over-voltage. I don't think anyone has problems with 1.50V RAM.

 

[DarkSable]

Yes, that was my point.
Their boards are criminally thin.

I was going to buy an Extreme4 until I saw a side shot of the flex (and that is without any cooler installed whatsoever).
Immediately my choice was switched to a Z77X-UD3H and I'm very happy with that board.

I won't be buying any more ASRock boards, ever; Asus or Gigabyte only. You get what you pay for.

The Extreme 4 is the only one that's like that - the Extreme 6 is much thicker, equal to any other motherboard.

Incidentally, I almost always recommend people to avoid Gigabyte, due to their wonky UEFI and poor customer service.

I guess it still stands - Asus is and will be the only computer part manufacturer that almost everyone will agree is awesome.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]ammaross[/nom]I have a Scythe Mugen 2 RevB hanging off my ASRock Z77 Extreme4 with no issue. I'm leaning toward it being a specific cooler mounting system problem, as the Scythe Mugen is truly a huge cooler in line with this Noctua. The only bad thing I can say about the Extreme4 is that it's not an Extreme6. It even OCs beautifully, whereas the Gigabyte boards have had issues.[/citation]Mugen 2 Rev.B has nothing on the Noctua in terms of weight and contact pressure. Noctua weighs about twice as much and needs around twice the pressure to maintain contact.