System Builder Marathon, Q1 2014: The $2400 People’s Choice PC

[grokem]

So you paid an extra $30 for the CPU, $50 extra for the MB and $110 for additional cooling all to go from 78.5fps to 83fps on 1080p Far Cry 3? That is an expensive 4.5fps. I didn't spend time to cherry pick an example, I just picked my favorite game and the resolution I run. Feel free to point out where the extra ~$200 was worth it.$200 for overclocking sounds like a deal compared to spending $20 to load drivers using spinning plastic rather than download them from the information super highway. At least overclocking is fun and rewarding.Finally, $170 + $90 + $20 for storage? How about Samsung 840 EVO 500MB for $260? Need more space, go for the 750GB. This is a performance machine and nothing improves performance more than good storage so don't waste money on slow storage.All suggestions kept the aim of the machine and with the exception of the SSD the same brand. I just used the Samsung SSD as an example because it is a top quality and no one could say I was picking a cheap SSD. My point is that I think you can't justify the overclocking costs or the storage choices.

 

[Jeffrey H]

Well be lucky I am not a Very Hard Core Gamer, but more like an Old School Classic Gamer, but there are some Emulators and Programs that do rely on my Video card(GeForce GT 620) and AMD A6 6400K A Series Duel Core 3.9 GHz CPU,It Runs at Full Speed, maybe even faster than usual.

 

[mcgee101]

Nice setup and smart build.. Just dont care for NZXT..

 

[Onus]

I don't think you can spend this amount of money on a PC without defining who its user is, to see that it is necessary to spend this much. Grokem makes some good points about the component choices. This machine is not a pure gamer, so other performance metrics need to be the focus; which ones cannot be determined unless you've identified the user. That, unfortunately, could render benchmark comparisons across SBM cycles irrelevant, since a Design Engineer will build for speed in different areas than will a Graphic Artist.

 

[B6S4Owner]

My only thing about this build is the choice of graphics cards. He could have gotten 4 GTX 770's and still been in the same price range. Or even just go with 2 GTX 770's at half the cost and get almost the same performance.

 

[RedJaron]

I like this build. Though if you came in $90 under budget, how did you not find room for the BD? Did you have a $90 price drop after ordering parts? SLI 780s is a lot of overkill for anything I would do, but spending $2400 on a machine is pretty much overkill anyway.

Onus has a point: anytime you spend this much on a machine, there has to be some primary purpose to it. Sure, you can get a rig that does many things well ( and I think you've done fairly well at that in the past. ) But changing up focus does partly invalidate comparing benchmarks between quarters.

To others complaining about the storage, I have to ask why. Complain all you want about the supposed obsolescence of ODDs, they're still used quite a bit. And do tell what you'd rather do with $260 for storage. A single 500GB SSD? Right, great compromise there . . .

 

[Crashman]

I like this build. Though if you came in $90 under budget, how did you not find room for the BD? Did you have a $90 price drop after ordering parts?

Yes, and that's pretty well covered in the article content

 

[Christopher Shaffer]

I like it all except the Seagate drive why not use an SSHD if you're going Seagate? Performance by dollar would be better than the Barracuda, and they're nearly the same price.Also, the PSU. I know there's a lot of Corsair love here at Tom's, but there's a few Seaonic options that would be better for the price, also some other brands like XFX (and other made-by-Seasonic options).Last, I think it's hilarious that you still went with an Extreme 4 motherboard when you totally stomped on my suggestion of that previously, but that's cool.

 

[Crashman]

I like it all except the Seagate drive why not use an SSHD if you're going Seagate? Performance by dollar would be better than the Barracuda, and they're nearly the same price.Also, the PSU. I know there's a lot of Corsair love here at Tom's, but there's a few Seaonic options that would be better for the price, also some other brands like XFX (and other made-by-Seasonic options).Last, I think it's hilarious that you still went with an Extreme 4 motherboard when you totally stomped on my suggestion of that previously, but that's cool.

No SSHD because that's just an extension of cache. It only really works if you're running programs from the drive, which we're not. That's why the SSD is 256GB instead of something lame like 128Gb.

Corsair because it was the best price on top brands of 750W 80 PLUS Gold power supplies on the day I ordered.

 

[Christopher Shaffer]

I like it all except the Seagate drive why not use an SSHD if you're going Seagate? Performance by dollar would be better than the Barracuda, and they're nearly the same price.Also, the PSU. I know there's a lot of Corsair love here at Tom's, but there's a few Seaonic options that would be better for the price, also some other brands like XFX (and other made-by-Seasonic options).Last, I think it's hilarious that you still went with an Extreme 4 motherboard when you totally stomped on my suggestion of that previously, but that's cool.

No SSHD because that's just an extension of cache. It only really works if you're running programs from the drive, which we're not. That's why the SSD is 256GB instead of something lame like 128Gb.

Corsair because it was the best price on top brands of 750W 80 PLUS Gold power supplies on the day I ordered.

Cool. That makes sense. I do run less important apps from my SSHD, so it's getting used well

I saw Bestbuy had a 256GB Samsung 840 EVO for $139 the other day. Too bad you couldn't have caught that deal, but the SanDisk is solid for sure.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Things I'd ponder before building that box...... not criticisms, just thoughts why I personally might go another way and considering I'm looking today rather than weeks ago when these items were selected. 1. I have two 780s and Furmark pulls 712 watts "at the wall" (at moderate OC) with CPU stock profile selected at boot, it's consuming CPU TDB of just just 40 watts. Add the 100 watts for a 4770k at 4.6Hz @ 1.4 v and that's 812. Allow for the 90% PSU efficiency and that's 731 watts. That's way too close for my comfort.....Keeping in mind that PSUs hit maximum efficiency at the 50% load mark, while ya might not be concerned about the power cost, the efficiency reduction also means more heat. Not a big thing .... just a few % points ... but still worth noting. Another thought .... if you allow for degradation of caps over time at say 15% as some recommend .... you at 840. Finally, the closer you get to full load, the greater the variance on voltage stability and increased ripple. The HX series contains some great units however, (except for the 1000 and 1050 which are dogs) and I'm sure the HX750 has plenty of headroom above it's rated capacity. Still ..... I'd feel more comfy spending an extra $20 for the HX850 which would still be well below budget.2. A reference GFX card at $520 ?. The Gigabyte Windforce, Asus DCII and MSI Gaming N series have consistently been at $520 or less since October. I'd want the custom PCB and multiphase VRMs on the non-reference cards so as to allow for lower VRM temps when overclocked.3. Often MoBo choices depend upon brand loyalty and feature sets that attract different users so its a very personal decision. When doing a $2k box, my recommended MoBo budget is generally $175ish (MSI GD65 is a popular choice among my users) which makes any comparison I'd make to the build a bit unfair. I also get a lotta users choosing the G45. But newegg combos. MIRs or other specials generally make this decision in the end.4. Memory is a bit of a PITA as prices and availability are all over the place. Again, I think more peeps buy on brand loyalty than on any detailed consideration of (Speed / CAS) specs and how either will change things in the particular usage scenario. This week was asked to use a 2400 CAS11 set from Mushkin for a user that was $150ish (price kinda surprised me).... Corsair's Vengeance Pro 1866 CAS 9 is usually $150ish of late (in some colors) but while higher end stuff has had attractive prices, it's very difficult to find in stock....so worth checking to see what's available on buy day .... I have sometimes found CAS 9 2133 at same price as 1866 at the same price.5. I have been getting lotsa e-mails from vendors in the last month regarding EVOs at $155 - $170 and Pros at $200 so that's something to consider buying today. My guess is however this build had parts selected before than. I use a lot of those Seagate drives, tho usually the 3 TB model..... no complaints. On may office lappies however, I started using Seagate's SSHDs a while back because got tired of peeps asking me to clean off the junk and make room on their C drives. We have found them completely indistinguishable (aside from benchmarks) from using separate SSDs and HDs with only about a second difference ion boot times (noticeable only with a stopwatch) and have started using them on desktops too.... Gamers who store games on their HD and OS on SSD may find benefit to the small price increase ($30)

 

[RedJaron]

Things I'd ponder before building that box...... not criticisms, just thoughts why I personally might go another way and considering I'm looking today rather than weeks ago when these items were selected.

1. I have two 780s and Furmark pulls 712 watts "at the wall" (at moderate OC) with CPU stock profile selected at boot, it's consuming CPU TDB of just just 40 watts. Add the 100 watts for a 4770k at 4.6Hz @ 1.4 v and that's 812. Allow for the 90% PSU efficiency and that's 731 watts. That's way too close for my comfort.....Keeping in mind that PSUs hit maximum efficiency at the 50% load mark, while ya might not be concerned about the power cost, the efficiency reduction also means more heat. Not a big thing .... just a few % points ... but still worth noting. Another thought .... if you allow for degradation of caps over time at say 15% as some recommend .... you at 840. Finally, the closer you get to full load, the greater the variance on voltage stability and increased ripple. The HX series contains some great units however, (except for the 1000 and 1050 which are dogs) and I'm sure the HX750 has plenty of headroom above it's rated capacity. Still ..... I'd feel more comfy spending an extra $20 for the HX850 which would still be well below budget.

2. A reference GFX card at $520 ?. The Gigabyte Windforce, Asus DCII and MSI Gaming N series have consistently been at $520 or less since October. I'd want the custom PCB and multiphase VRMs on the non-reference cards so as to allow for lower VRM temps when overclocked.

3. Often MoBo choices depend upon brand loyalty and feature sets that attract different users so its a very personal decision. When doing a $2k box, my recommended MoBo budget is generally $175ish (MSI GD65 is a popular choice among my users) which makes any comparison I'd make to the build a bit unfair. I also get a lotta users choosing the G45. But newegg combos. MIRs or other specials generally make this decision in the end.

4. Memory is a bit of a PITA as prices and availability are all over the place. Again, I think more peeps buy on brand loyalty than on any detailed consideration of (Speed / CAS) specs and how either will change things in the particular usage scenario. This week was asked to use a 2400 CAS11 set from Mushkin for a user that was $150ish (price kinda surprised me).... Corsair's Vengeance Pro 1866 CAS 9 is usually $150ish of late (in some colors) but while higher end stuff has had attractive prices, it's very difficult to find in stock....so worth checking to see what's available on buy day .... I have sometimes found CAS 9 2133 at same price as 1866 at the same price.

5. I have been getting lotsa e-mails from vendors in the last month regarding EVOs at $155 - $170 and Pros at $200 so that's something to consider buying today. My guess is however this build had parts selected before than. I use a lot of those Seagate drives, tho usually the 3 TB model..... no complaints. On may office lappies however, I started using Seagate's SSHDs a while back because got tired of peeps asking me to clean off the junk and make room on their C drives. We have found them completely indistinguishable (aside from benchmarks) from using separate SSDs and HDs with only about a second difference ion boot times (noticeable only with a stopwatch) and have started using them on desktops too.... Gamers who store games on their HD and OS on SSD may find benefit to the small price increase ($30)

1) Furmark doesn't put a big load on the CPU, but it does put some so it's not sitting idle. You can't just add 100W for the CPU on top of a Furmark run to get a full load estimate.

Also, efficiency between 90% and 100% load on a Gold 80 PSU is spec'd around 87% ( though some models have better than spec efficiency. ) The 802 watts pulled is actually closer to 705 watts delivered to the internals. That particular PSU can handle up to 744W on the 12V rail alone. Yes, it's a heavy load, but that's only happening on a torture test. Heavy gaming is only drawing 682W, which is about 80% load on the PSU. If you were mining with this rig, or wanted it at full-tilt most of the time, then stepping up to an 850W PSU makes sense. Otherwise the 750W is adequate.

2) Tom has said multiple times in the past that he's a fan of blower GPU coolers because they fully exhaust heat. The blowers also serve two purposes in this particular build. First, since Haswell is such a finicky OCer, I can understand that he didn't want recycled exhaust heat from the GPUs in the case. Second, blowers make cooling less a headache with SLI configs due to the limited space between cards.

3) Fair enough, but if you're trying to cram as much as possible into the build, dropping to a $125 board makes sense. ASRock's Extreme4 line is very respectable and hardly a sacrifice in terms of mboard features.

4) Again, fair enough. RAM prices seem a little volatile right now. But as Newegg has to be the vendor for these, those are the prices you have to go by.

5) Hybrid drives offer some great trade-offs for people who want the simplicity. But hybrids are still limited by the size of the cache. Your boot sequence will always take up some of the cache, and if you bounce between a lot of programs, then you won't see as much gain since the cache is shifting a lot. In laptops with limited drive bays, they're a no-brainer. But in a desktop where I can easily fit multiple drives, I'll pay extra for separate boot and data drives. And if you don't want to bother with multiple drive letters, I'd rather get a 30GB - 60GB SSD and set it up as a HDD cache.

 

[Jeffrey H]

I like it all except the Seagate drive why not use an SSHD if you're going Seagate? Performance by dollar would be better than the Barracuda, and they're nearly the same price.Also, the PSU. I know there's a lot of Corsair love here at Tom's, but there's a few Seaonic options that would be better for the price, also some other brands like XFX (and other made-by-Seasonic options).Last, I think it's hilarious that you still went with an Extreme 4 motherboard when you totally stomped on my suggestion of that previously, but that's cool.

No SSHD because that's just an extension of cache. It only really works if you're running programs from the drive, which we're not. That's why the SSD is 256GB instead of something lame like 128Gb.

Corsair because it was the best price on top brands of 750W 80 PLUS Gold power supplies on the day I ordered.

Cool. That makes sense. I do run less important apps from my SSHD, so it's getting used well

I saw Bestbuy had a 256GB Samsung 840 EVO for $139 the other day. Too bad you couldn't have caught that deal, but the SanDisk is solid for sure.

Well it is too bad they don't have many SanDisk Extremes left since they are moving to the "Ultra-Plus" Version, but I have both of them on my system, a 120 GB Extreme, and a 128 GB Ultra-Plus, and they are holding up very well, I mean heck to add a tip most of the SSDs(if very lucky) can last up to almost 200 years in terms of how they are stored(when I managed to add how Many Hours before the SSD would Fail).

 

[Guest]

That particular make of video card 780ti EVGA 03G-P4-2781-KR is pretty much sold out. Any substitutes you experts recommend?

 

[Guest]

Is it kewl to SLI on different build numbers of the EVGA? i found a couple refurbished ones on the cheap but they are different builds of the 780ti.

 

[Guest]

Out of stock on the processor too. maybe it might be a good idea to give alternatives in the next publication.

 

[Crashman]

Out of stock on the processor too. maybe it might be a good idea to give alternatives in the next publication.

Well, this one is from a year ago (actually 13 months)