System Builder Marathon Q1 2015: Budget Gaming PC

[damric]

A reminder to all ..... we follow a set of rules on these, so it's useless to post system configs which do not adhere to those rules.

The important number was staying within a $550 performance platform budget. (up $100 from last quarter). We are then allowed some wiggle room for enclosure and optical desires. And a transparent OS cost was a long time reader request. You can leave all those expenses out if need be and just focus on the $550.

Next, we purchase our parts from Newegg, using their in-cart pricing only. So promo codes and mail-in rebates do not count. And we do not shop Newegg's bundle's or combos, which will be gone by the time our stories are published. The idea here is to build a machine you can still duplicate for the same or at a lower cost. Example; Rebates alone would have lowered this machine to under $500 in performance parts back when we ordered.

Robbing funds from the OS, case, or optical drive to pad the performance budget, is a cheat. It would just result in a far more expensive system once those other costs were figured in.

Are you saying that your guidelines for building is to intentionally not get the best build for the money? Title seems misleading.

Who uses an optical drive? I don't.

 

[Onus]

AFAIK, the SBM series is sponsored by Newegg, which is why "all Newegg parts" is one of the rules.
I would like to see the "no promos / no combos" rule relaxed a little; allow one such deal. Whichever one is used may be gone or different, but there will always be some kind of deal to be had; if not that one, then another. I'd agree to exclude rebates though, a game you may not win.
Love this one from Damric about PSU-tiers that keeps coming back like a zombie:

BTW that tier list is a completely inaccurate repost of a repost of a repost that originated in god knows where noob forum.

It was relevant in its day to be sure, but has faded (as all such data points must).
As many different ideas as he has tried over the years, Paul is very definitely not a parrot, and "parrotcy" is something we should all try to avoid too.

 

[Nick-N]

That was my Newegg review you didn't listen to on the Motherboard! That was the reason I reviewed it to warn others! But like I said there, without the low cost Mobo, I wouldn't have been able to spend as much on the rest of my system, and its still working fine almost a year and a half later. My video card is still hitting the pins, but oh well. Nick.

 

[Eggz]

Not bad for less than $700!

People actually building will probably be able to get a solid SSD if they get the student pricing for Windows 8.1 Pro - only $69

 

[DasHotShot]

That PC should be the automatic answer, posted by the site, to any of those "First Build/Low Budget" threads started several times every day.

Then we could all focus on solving problems, not telling people which crappy AMD/Radeon gpu to get to get.

 

[Onus]

That PC should be the automatic answer, posted by the site, to any of those "First Build/Low Budget" threads started several times every day.

Then we could all focus on solving problems, not telling people which crappy AMD/Radeon gpu to get to get.

For multiple reasons, some of which have been cited, this build is not a good automatic answer. Even as a starting point, it must be adjusted based on the specific requirements of the builder. Also, specific rules limiting SBM choices will not apply to individual builders, necessitating a more personalized response.

As to the final sentiment regarding AMD graphics cards, it looks like trolling, so you may wish to edit it out. Thanks.

 

[DasHotShot]

That PC should be the automatic answer, posted by the site, to any of those "First Build/Low Budget" threads started several times every day.

Then we could all focus on solving problems, not telling people which crappy AMD/Radeon gpu to get to get.

+1 although I would miss those great replies of "spend $550 of your $650 budget on the CPU, SLI/CF mobo & PSU, lets pretend you don't need an OS, and then increase your budget to $850 so you can get a gaming card"

Hahaha, word!

Gotta love "Make sure you buy some $50 cpu cooler so you can overclock the nuts out of your $70 cpu!"

 

[damric]

AFAIK, the SBM series is sponsored by Newegg, which is why "all Newegg parts" is one of the rules.
I would like to see the "no promos / no combos" rule relaxed a little; allow one such deal. Whichever one is used may be gone or different, but there will always be some kind of deal to be had; if not that one, then another. I'd agree to exclude rebates though, a game you may not win.
Love this one from Damric about PSU-tiers that keeps coming back like a zombie:

BTW that tier list is a completely inaccurate repost of a repost of a repost that originated in god knows where noob forum.

It was relevant in its day to be sure, but has faded (as all such data points must).
As many different ideas as he has tried over the years, Paul is very definitely not a parrot, and "parrotcy" is something we should all try to avoid too.

I know Paul means well.

The OS, Newegg-only, and no rebates are lame rules, but I can accept those.

What I cannot accept is an absolute turd of a motherboard and power supply when there is excess fat spent on a case. It would be much better to drop down the graphics card to a R9 270 and get a descent PSU than to have the R9 280 blow up due to a PSU with poor ripple suppression, regulation, and capacitors that wear out when heated to 30C.

I might sound like a dick about this, but I see the same junk in every SBM. Then people jump on it, and I'm the one left troubleshooting the motherboard and PSU problems.

Paul knows that he should have used the CAPSTONE 450W, so why did he sell himself out?

 

[Onus]

Should I win this PC, I would replace the graphics card with a GTX650Ti and add a 120GB SSD I've got onhand, and give it to my brother-in-law as a reasonable home/office PC also capable of light gaming; which is to say I'd lower its stress-levels to make the low-end mobo and PSU less likely to be issues.

 

[Onus]

oklahamo wolf gave the 500B a solid review for what it is, a budget 500w PSU

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=351

This isn't a 500B, but it turns out that Oklahoma Wolf reviewed this one too: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=384

No, it wasn't a bad unit, but I typically target such PSUs for home/office builds, not gamers likely to experience a lot more heat and stress.

 

[DasHotShot]

That PC should be the automatic answer, posted by the site, to any of those "First Build/Low Budget" threads started several times every day.

Then we could all focus on solving problems, not telling people which crappy AMD/Radeon gpu to get to get.

For multiple reasons, some of which have been cited, this build is not a good automatic answer. Even as a starting point, it must be adjusted based on the specific requirements of the builder. Also, specific rules limiting SBM choices will not apply to individual builders, necessitating a more personalized response.

As to the final sentiment regarding AMD graphics cards, it looks like trolling, so you may wish to edit it out. Thanks.

Ok ok, sorry. I love trolling Radeon owner's, I find the whole comparing dicks (GFX cards) very funny and can't take either side's fanboys seriously.

Seems I have a long way to go until I reach your status. If I even can.

 

[cmi86]

AFAIK, the SBM series is sponsored by Newegg, which is why "all Newegg parts" is one of the rules.
I would like to see the "no promos / no combos" rule relaxed a little; allow one such deal. Whichever one is used may be gone or different, but there will always be some kind of deal to be had; if not that one, then another. I'd agree to exclude rebates though, a game you may not win.
Love this one from Damric about PSU-tiers that keeps coming back like a zombie:

BTW that tier list is a completely inaccurate repost of a repost of a repost that originated in god knows where noob forum.

It was relevant in its day to be sure, but has faded (as all such data points must).
As many different ideas as he has tried over the years, Paul is very definitely not a parrot, and "parrotcy" is something we should all try to avoid too.

I know Paul means well.

The OS, Newegg-only, and no rebates are lame rules, but I can accept those.

What I cannot accept is an absolute turd of a motherboard and power supply when there is excess fat spent on a case. It would be much better to drop down the graphics card to a R9 270 and get a descent PSU than to have the R9 280 blow up due to a PSU with poor ripple suppression, regulation, and capacitors that wear out when heated to 30C.

I might sound like a dick about this, but I see the same junk in every SBM. Then people jump on it, and I'm the one left troubleshooting the motherboard and PSU problems.

Paul knows that he should have used the CAPSTONE 450W, so why did he sell himself out?

Unfortunately this is the reality with the SBM's, or at least what they have become. They are all about making the fastest possible machine with little to no attention payed to quality. This isn't the builders faults, it is a byproduct of the rules and nature of the competition. I completely agree with you that more attention needs to be payed to quality in these builds resulting in quality machines not just the fastest piece of junk someone can slap together.
In the Q4 2014 Mainstream Enthusiast build Don skimped on a motherboard with well known issues and a 2 egg rating to save a few bucks and look where it got him, a rig that wouldn't even OC.

 

[Tony Terabyte]

"In giving props to the Pentium’s value, we must throw in a word of caution: the next big gaming title on your radar may not even run on a dual-core processor, meaning a CPU upgrade could be required sooner rather than later."

Completely agree, i would rather spends more on a newer processor than on a graphics card, i5 and up or an fx8320e only 140 bucks for an 8-core(4 cores 8 logical processors).

 

[jaudain]

I think the build overall was ok but i am suprised no one mentioned an AMD CPU, a fx 6350 or even a 8320 could had been possible and am3+ mobos are cheap and performance increase would had been significantly increased especially in professional application just my 2 cent but let me know what you guys think i think 2cores not enough for today's application or gaming...

 

[Onus]

Cheap AM3+ motherboards almost universally have VRM issues and/or use older chipsets with modern interfaces (if any) tacked onto them with slower, 3rd party controllers.

 

[pauldh]

AFAIK, the SBM series is sponsored by Newegg, which is why "all Newegg parts" is one of the rules.
I would like to see the "no promos / no combos" rule relaxed a little; allow one such deal. Whichever one is used may be gone or different, but there will always be some kind of deal to be had; if not that one, then another. I'd agree to exclude rebates though, a game you may not win.
Love this one from Damric about PSU-tiers that keeps coming back like a zombie:

BTW that tier list is a completely inaccurate repost of a repost of a repost that originated in god knows where noob forum.

It was relevant in its day to be sure, but has faded (as all such data points must).
As many different ideas as he has tried over the years, Paul is very definitely not a parrot, and "parrotcy" is something we should all try to avoid too.

I know Paul means well.

The OS, Newegg-only, and no rebates are lame rules, but I can accept those.

What I cannot accept is an absolute turd of a motherboard and power supply when there is excess fat spent on a case. It would be much better to drop down the graphics card to a R9 270 and get a descent PSU than to have the R9 280 blow up due to a PSU with poor ripple suppression, regulation, and capacitors that wear out when heated to 30C.

I might sound like a dick about this, but I see the same junk in every SBM. Then people jump on it, and I'm the one left troubleshooting the motherboard and PSU problems.

Paul knows that he should have used the CAPSTONE 450W, so why did he sell himself out?

Na, There's no selling out. It's just not a bad budget unit for such a build. At PEAK system demands the OC wasn't even asking 50% it's rated output. I don't share your concerns, so we will have to agree to disagree on the potential dangers here, and the necessity of a high-quality PSU in budget builds.

That said, I will never argue against a higher quality PSU either. Nor will I recommend junk. Sure, I'd gladly put the Capstone 450W in this build and pretty much any budget gamer. But I think you are missing the fact I configured a low power system, and money/value is the object here. Same applies to Intel's budget motherboards. For non-K's or mild Pentium tuning, they may be short on features, but otherwise, they're fine. If we start talking overclocked i5/i7 or FX-6/FX-8, then I get a lot more leery of budget parts.

 

[pauldh]

oklahamo wolf gave the 500B a solid review for what it is, a budget 500w PSU

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=351

This isn't a 500B, but it turns out that Oklahoma Wolf reviewed this one too: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=384

No, it wasn't a bad unit, but I typically target such PSUs for home/office builds, not gamers likely to experience a lot more heat and stress.

Exactly. Although for the home/office build, I'd instead prefer EA-380 or VP-450. And if we dip to low dedicated graphics or below, then just grab a Seasonic or Sparkle 300W.

 

[pauldh]

CMI86, Onus, and all.... There's some great constructive feedback here, both positive and negative. Thanks.

The "built to be fast now" vs. "planning for the future" talks are interesting. I know many people build that way, myself included. I even like to retain an aging but capable graphics card, so I can grab the remainder of the platform I desire. Later more storage can be added, and a GPU upgrade. I've done the opposite route too though, with a CPU upgrade in mind.

Now I know if I come with i5 and $100 graphics in a gaming build, I'll be jumped on by many. But similar to the G3258, if it's done with an upgrade path planned out, then it may be the best way to build on limited funds.

 

[Onus]

As a one-off, no it isn't horrid, but it is much like a Dell or HP; fine for what it is when you buy it, but any upgrade probably means having to upgrade multiple pieces. People who build systems specifically don't want that Dell or HP, sometimes for that very reason.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Na, There's no selling out. It's just not a bad budget unit for such a build. At PEAK system demands the OC wasn't even asking 50% it's rated output. I don't share your concerns, so we will have to agree to disagree on the potential dangers here, and the necessity of a high-quality PSU in budget builds.

That said, I will never argue against a higher quality PSU either. Nor will I recommend junk. Sure, I'd gladly put the Capstone 450W in this build and pretty much any budget gamer. But I think you are missing the fact I configured a low power system, and money/value is the object here. Same applies to Intel's budget motherboards. For non-K's or mild Pentium tuning, they may be short on features, but otherwise, they're fine. If we start talking overclocked i5/i7 or FX-6/FX-8, then I get a lot more leery of budget parts.

The PSU seems to be a central source of argument, but let me state my side on it. I come from similar build as the OP, it's about $600 and consists of an i5-4460, GTX 750Ti, and MSI H81M-E33 motherboard. In addition I have the EVGA 500W 100-W1-0500-KR power supply. There are a few reasons I chose this power supply.

For one thing, it's a huge improvement over my previous one. Beforehand I was using an extremely cheap $20 420W Rosewill PSU that came with the case of who-knows-what quality. How did it perform? Flawlessly running 24/7 for over 5 months straight. I still have it, I replaced it with the EVGA unit after I upgraded my computer.

Secondly, it's a lot better than the power supplies that come with prebuilts, and I have good experience with prebuilts. For the past 3 years I have been around 30 or so prebuilts daily, and not one of those cheap power supplies in the HP computers have failed yet. In addition, many home computers including ancient desktops still run well, I have a Windows Me computer in the basement. So from my personal experiences I find that the failure rate of PSUs tends to be overexaggerated, at least for a good perios of time. I only want my EVGA power supply to run for about another year and then I'll probably upgrade and go with the Seasonic and other new components.

Third, I found it to have goof quality/price. In a $600 build, I do not want to spend $75 on a power supply. I do realize that many people on Tomshardware do not understand a low budget, but I found this one to be the sweet spot between price and quality. It's even on sale often for under $40. Do I care if an OEM made it? Nope. As long as it is reliable and powers my components well, that's what matters. It's been a great power supply so far, stays very quiet and very cool. If I was going for a $1000 build I would get a Seasonic but I found there 500W units to be a bit more money than I expected or wanted to pay for.

I think the OP again chose his components wisely. Perhaps he should've checked out the MSI H81M-E33 but like said the motherboard will work perfectly fine with simple components. There is also argument of future-proofing and such stuff. But in the future technology will be so different, so one cannot simple assume they well want that same board/compatible parts in the future. But that's just my opinion. Is there probably a better power supply for that cost? Sure, but this is one of the better ones for that cost and I am certainly satisfied and am not a paid reviewer on sites like Amazon.

So, hate me all you want for liking EVGA's 500W PSU but I do and will keep doing so.

 

[RedJaron]

Why not buy an AIO cooler with these 100 dollars and overclock the hell out of the pentium?
After all the i3 has only two cores too ... and no overclocking possible.

I'm pretty sure that 50% overclocking is greater than 2 extra threads that give at best 30%.

There are also great bundles everywhere, G3258 + motherboard for cheaper.

There's just so much wrong with this.

Let's see, $70 CPU + $60 mboard + $100 cooler = $230. $120 CPU + $60 mboard + free cooler = $180. You really think you're getting $50 worth of extra performance out of the Pentium OC? Maybe If you're only concerned about single-threads. The rest of us use a lot more.

And you really think you can get a 50% OC on a 3258? Have you even tried? I have. On these low-budget boards the VRM becomes the limiting factor so it doesn't matter what kind of cooling the chip has. Igor experimented on a G3258 on a Z board with liquid cooling and the best he got was 4.4 GHz. You'd have to get this chip to 4.8 GHz to reach that 50% overclock and for that much money I'd prefer an i5-4460.

And again, what does it matter how cheap the CPU + mboard combo is in your scenario if the mboard doesn't have the power circuitry for a stable, meaningful OC?

I don't see why SSDs are being considered a necessity. With Windows 8 and the fast startup you don't even need to worry about waiting a minute, and on a budget I don't see why it's worth the extra money just to calm one's impatience for 10 seconds of loading.

Its more than just boot times, the system as a whole is a lot more snappier, and faster. That windows 8 fast boot is just like putting win 7 in sleep mode.

Absolutely. Until you've used a SSD extensively you just won't understand the improvement. Faster booting, shutting down, software updates, game loading, and all-around system responsiveness.

A $75 Seasonic of XFX is not going to cut it for this build, it's too much money.
...
An expensive motherboard on a budget is a no-no IMO. H81 is perfect for budget.

First, Rosewill Capstone 450 for $60, XFX 550 for $63, SeaSonic 520 for $65. Quite a few good options under $75 that could've fit here.

Second, H81 isn't a perfect fit for all low-budget builds. You can get some fuller H87 boards for $80. It may not fit exactly in the SBM's strict budget, but it's an option for someone building their own.

I think they should do away with the support components costs because they are eating into the performance components. Like a $50 case jst doesn't make any sense. A $30 one will do and that will enable the OP to get a h97 mobo.

Can't we just do a simple $700 build WITH OS and see what develops from there.

The case, OS, and optical drive have already been removed from the performance part budget and play no role in calculating value. Not only that but I'd hate to have a cheap, flimsy $30 case. And in this particular case, how would an H87 make any performance difference?

Who uses an optical drive? I don't.

I actually still do. Not all the time, but enough.

For one thing, it's a huge improvement over my previous one. Beforehand I was using an extremely cheap $20 420W Rosewill PSU

So you spent extra on a PSU and saw a big improvement? You're not helping your case, but supporting ours.

So from my personal experiences I find that the failure rate of PSUs tends to be overexaggerated, at least for a good perios of time.

That may be the case, but a hard drive failure generally doesn't have the potential to fry my mboard, CPU, or GPU. A good PSU is kinda like buying insurance or extended warranty. You may not ever use it, but if it's only a couple bucks extra then it's worth the peace of mind.

Third, I found it to have goof quality/price. In a $600 build, I do not want to spend $75 on a power supply. I do realize that many people on Tomshardware do not understand a low budget, but I found this one to be the sweet spot between price and quality.

Perhaps it is you who don't understand us. No one here is advocating dropping a massive, expensive PSU into this build. And no one is saying this thing is going to blow up tomorrow. What we are saying is that we never find it worthwhile to skimp on a PSU. Not only does it take care of everything else inside the case, the PSU is also a component that can be transferred from one build to another. So if I spend an extra $10 - $20 now on a really nice one, that means I don't have to buy a brand new one in a few years when I upgrade.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

@RedJaron: In the end the PSU decision comes down to whether the builder wants to future-proof or not. Considering that things are getting more power efficient I see it as even if I upgrade compinents it'll still be fine. Such as a 960 or something like that.

 

[macer1]

I find it funny that people are downplaying the gtx 960

. Most of the comments are that the gpu ram limits the display options. Well this is a budget build with bargain basement parts, nobody who is building this unit would have the $ to allocate it on a decent monitor with a high pixel count and a low response time. Thus with that said, that argument is nullified.

The r9 280 is a serviceable GPU dont get me wrong but at this price point its worth spending a little more.

 

[pauldh]

As a one-off, no it isn't horrid, but it is much like a Dell or HP; fine for what it is when you buy it, but any upgrade probably means having to upgrade multiple pieces. People who build systems specifically don't want that Dell or HP, sometimes for that very reason.

I appreciate the feedback, always, but that's not saying I necessarily agree with it. What I'm seeing is much interest in a upgrade-potential theme, which sounds very interesting.

However, the bulk of people never upgrade their rigs, whether purchased or built, and unless we implement a specific theme, then SBMs always build for the current bang for buck value. This was built to play games on a budget, right now, and for that I'll stand behind every part selected here, at the price paid. There were no meaningful (performance) upgrades in reach, besides pumping more funds into the mobo or PSU, reducing the bang for the buck (which I would not argue against, either).

Admittedly I left a little funding on the table, which is 100% allowed and even expected. The case did not rob funds from performance, under our rules it can not. Personally as a secondary goal I wanted to get the whole system in at $600. And yes, I did consider the Capstone 450W since it would have fit in budget this time, with or without a $50 case. But I don't think it's necessary on a budget. And yes, the intent here was strictly to build a machine for gaming value here and now, not to plan for the future upgrade path; For sure. In an SBM, only if building unbalanced on purpose am I doing so with upgrades in mind. There's no right build approach even outside an SBM, and it would be a shame to live with worse gaming performance, to allow for a future upgrade that will never happen anyway. (or worse, cause an upgrade to be required from gimping an initial part).

Core-i3 and R9 280 make a great budget gaming combo, and there was no need to spend more. The H81 mobo is cheap, and selected for front USB support. Sure, a downside with H81, you are limited to 2 stick of RAM and 16GB. So I wouldn't argue against a chipset supporting four DIMMs. Few gamers on a budget would ever touch RAID, but that need can be tweaked on an individual basis.

Agree, this has less attractive an upgrade path than the previous Pentium build because you are removing a pricier part (CPU, GPU). You would be limited to 16GB on either, and I wouldn't advise non-Z, K-series overclocking on any board, even if unofficially supported. With i3 you are always tossing away more money if an upgrade is desired. But it still could be done without an issue without any other parts being pulled. I don't agree it's like a pre-built, because those typically wouldn't be built to game with a balanced CPU and GPU, like this rig.

 

[pauldh]

I find it funny that people are downplaying the gtx 960

. Most of the comments are that the gpu ram limits the display options. Well this is a budget build with bargain basement parts, nobody who is building this unit would have the $ to allocate it on a decent monitor with a high pixel count and a low response time. Thus with that said, that argument is nullified.

The r9 280 is a serviceable GPU dont get me wrong but at this price point its worth spending a little more.

Our orders preceded the GTX 960 launch, by a little bit. Still, R9 280 offers great bang for the buck.

Although I'd be curious if in the CPU-limited tests, whether the GeForce would allow more breathing room. NVidia has come a long way in upping their low-end-CPU driver performance. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-balanced-platform,2469.html