System Builder Marathon, Q2 2013: $1300 Enthusiast PC

[Chris Kemper]

For kicks & Giggles.. .and $200 more:
Total: 1506
CPU 190 i5-3570K
CPU Cooler 135 Swiftech Apogee Drive II with Pump
MOBO 118 GA-Z77N-WIFI
MEM 66 G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
SSD 165 Samsung 840 Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Disk
GPU 400 Zotac GTX 770
GPU Cooler 100 EK Full Block
Case 100 Lian-Li PC-Q08B Mini ITX Tower Case
Fan 24 Noctua ULN 140mm High Preasure
Rad 98 140mm Alphacool Monsta
PSU 80 550 w seasonic
Optical 0 Why?
Bits 20 budget bits
Tubing 10 10' should suffice

 

[noobzilla771]

The prices they use in SMB will always be inflated because they use prices as close to the MSRP, so it's a given that everyone can technically build better when they purchase at current prices (and theres always discounts). Just be mindful to keep things in the same field.

Some parts are questionable though such as the power supply and graphics card. I would pick a 650w modular and either a gtx 670 or 7870 LE and cut the cost down. I guess it depends on the goal: either get the most out of $1300 budget or cheapest ITX build closest to the $800 spec (+ a bit of extra performance since 3 months has passed)

 

[slomo4sho]

But that has nothing to do with the motherboard form factor. The guy specifically said that high capacity power is idiotic for ITX, and I pointed out that ITX has no bearing on the selection. The intelligent builder picks his capacity based on the parts he's powering.

Don's over-capacious choice would have been similar over-capacious in a full-sized build, if he'd used the same CPU, GPU, DRAM and drives.

ITX builds can only have a single GPU and only a HD 7990 (a 690 would actually make more sense) would require a PSU of this caliber.
I can understand the perception that any PSU larger than 650W is a waste of $$$ in an ITX build so it is understandable as to why someone would deem it idiotic when a 750W PSU is used in such a build. The over-capacious choice does make sense in a desktop because the system can be expanded upon in most cases. ITX on the other hand will limit the system to a single GPU slot, a single optical drive, a 2-6 storage drives. How much sense does it make throwing in a high capacity PSU in such a restricted enclosure?

 

[internetlad]

Kind of liking the off the beaten path theme of this SBM. It surely isn't for people looking at templates for building their own cost-effective gaming machine, but i'm glad stuff like this gets thrown out now and again.

 

[Crashman]

But that has nothing to do with the motherboard form factor. The guy specifically said that high capacity power is idiotic for ITX, and I pointed out that ITX has no bearing on the selection. The intelligent builder picks his capacity based on the parts he's powering.

Don's over-capacious choice would have been similar over-capacious in a full-sized build, if he'd used the same CPU, GPU, DRAM and drives.

ITX builds can only have a single GPU and only a HD 7990 (a 690 would actually make more sense) would require a PSU of this caliber.
I can understand the perception that any PSU larger than 650W is a waste of $$$ in an ITX build so it is understandable as to why someone would deem it idiotic when a 750W PSU is used in such a build. The over-capacious choice does make sense in a desktop because the system can be expanded upon in most cases. ITX on the other hand will limit the system to a single GPU slot, a single optical drive, a 2-6 storage drives. How much sense does it make throwing in a high capacity PSU in such a restricted enclosure?

Let me put it in easy language: If you imagine that you need a 750W power supply to power his components, you imagine wrong. That overestimation is pertinent to your main components, regardless of the enclosure or motherboard size.

 

[slomo4sho]

Let me put it in easy language: If you imagine that you need a 750W power supply to power his components, you imagine wrong. That overestimation is pertinent to your main components, regardless of the enclosure or motherboard size.

I have no idea how you are reaching this conclusion. Let me put it this way. Picking a PSU for a build that only uses around 50% capacity at load is a WASTE of $$$ which could have been better used in other components such as a larger SSD. The PSU is a bottleneck in this build (I am sure you can figure out why).

 

[RedJaron]

The final paragraph in the article sums it up for me: this build and budget feels like cheating. You expanded the budget more than necessary to accommodate the ITX specific parts so comparing this to older mid-range SBM builds doesn't say much. And yes, I think the PSU is too much. I see reputable modular PSUs in the 550W range for ~$70 ( a SeaSonic M12II 520 is only $80 on Newegg, though I don't know what the price would have been in April. ) That savings, coupled with 1600 RAM, could allow a 128GB SSD which I think is much more practical.

It's a decent build, I like the experiment, I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to compare it to.

 

[ananke]

I have built 4 itx systems this year, for myslef. I use them all, one major, one server and 2 simple "workstations".

My "main" system:

Lian-Li PC-Q18B - because of optical drive and 4 HDD cage;
Asus P77H-I - because of 6 SATA ports;
Intel i5-3570K - because of QuickSync, I don't overclock it;
Samsung 830 256GB SSD, though 128GB is enough for OS;
4 units Hitachi 1 TB HDDs - can be used in Win 8 "Storage Spaces" pool, I just had them around;
EVGA GTX660 2GB - because is enough for me, but here you can put any blower type of card you like;
Seasonic 520W;
Win 8 Pro 64 bit

I just see no reason to overclock, CPUs are more than enough for any kind of use today, and the most important qualities to me are NO NOISE and COOL system, especially in the mini -ITX form factor. If you want maximum performance, go to mid-tower size, multi GPU system and i5-3770K.
My system does exactly what Tom's does, it costs much less.

 

[lowguppy]

I'm glad to see Tom's doing a Mini-ITX SBM (I recently put a mini-ITX pc into a Millennium Falcon), but this one really feels like it was built to fill out the price point rather than for value. The PSU is overkill, 400W would be plenty for this system. The extra $170 spent on the GPU doesn't make a difference you would ever see at 1920x1080. A single 250gb Samsung 840 is probably preferable to the two drive solution for the same price.

You could probably get a slim (15mm) fan to fit inside the case, or at least stick out less on the outside.

 

[Onus]

.
.
.
The point was to illustrate the fact that many of the parts were not chosen wisely as there seemed to be needless spending where there didn't need to be. Please note the final point addressing the graphics card issue.

Also, while you have one point of contention with my build, I contend the following:
-Overspent on RAM, DDR3-1866 is completely unnecessary for Intel CPUs, returns diminish greatly after 1333 at low latencies
-SSD was a poor value for the money, 2nd/3rd tier brand, too small
-WD Black is completely unnecessary as a storage drive. The WD Blue is significantly cheaper will do the job just fine
-Really a 750W Corsair Builder series? Are we forgetting this is a single GPU setup in an ITX case? You said that heat is a big factor. Why wouldn't you get a 550W Capstone-M or Seasonic gold rated PSU for cheaper?
-The Corsair H60 (new version) has more to offer than the Antec Kuhler 620, including a 5 year warranty vs Antec's 3 year.
-Lastly, the Gigabyte HD7970 WILL fit as this case has a 300mm card length capacity and that card is around 285mm. It also does exhaust hot air out the full size opening on the back of the card.
...

I agree with some of the niggles (e.g. the RAM), which any build has, and didn't comment on them. I'd still probably keep the WD Black for the five year warranty.
I definitely agree that the SSD was too small; it might have been more interesting if combined with the WD Black using SRT.
I own one of those Gigabyte HD7970 cards. It's great, but it produces a phenomenal amount of radiant heat, and am not sure very much of it gets out the back. Call me skittish because a system I built in this case croaked due to heat, but I would not consider this card in that case unless perhaps I replaced both of its fans with howlers, which would create an unpleasant little beast.
As to the PSU, although I recognized the others (and would prefer the Seasonic myself), the fact that this one will operate so far under its capacity will reduce heat. It is 80+ bronze, which is only a few percentage points off of gold, is modular, and (unlike the non-modular versions) uses all Japanese capacitors.
My concerns with the cooler are that it neglects the motherboard, and in this build was installed in a manner that destroys the elegance of a Lian Li case. I'm sure it does a fine job on the CPU.

 

[Onus]

After concurrence with another member of the Moderation team, I have cleaned out an assortment of irrelevant posts. Please read the entire SBM article (not just the parts list) to understand the rules / constraints on SBM builds (e.g. all Newegg, and ordered well over a month before publishing).
Thanks.

 

[Crashman]

Let me put it in easy language: If you imagine that you need a 750W power supply to power his components, you imagine wrong.

I have no idea how you are reaching this conclusion. Let me put it this way. Picking a PSU for a build that only uses around 50% capacity at load is a WASTE of $$$ which could have been better used in other components such as a larger SSD. The PSU is a bottleneck in this build (I am sure you can figure out why).

Let me put this into EVEN EASIER language: WHEN DON assumed he'd need this much power for Don's internal components, DON imagined wrong. I just had to get the generic "you" (meaning anyone) out of the way

So he overestimated his power needs. Lots of people do that. Big deal. Someone called him stupid because it's an ITX system, what I'm saying is that the form factor has little bearing on his overestimation. If you take out the form factor argument, which is clearly wrong (because he wouldn't have planned for an SLI upgrade even if this were full ATX), you can see that his overestimation of energy needs was just a common mistake, rather than stupidity.

 

[slomo4sho]

Let me put this into EVEN EASIER language: WHEN DON assumed he'd need this much power for hDon's internal components, DON imagined wrong. I just had to get the generic "you" (meaning anyone) out of the way

So he overestimated his power needs. Lots of people do that. Big deal. Someone called him stupid because it's an ITX system, what I'm saying is that the form factor has little bearing on his overestimation. If you take out the form factor argument, which is clearly wrong (because he wouldn't have planned for an SLI upgrade even if this were full ATX), you can see that his overestimation of energy needs was just a common mistake, rather than stupidity.

Thank you for the clarification but this is the root of the issue. Being a tech site, the reviews and reviewers are open to greater scrutiny. It may not be "Big deal" but such oversights do diminish the credibility of this site as "The Authority on Tech".

 

[Onus]

I don't think that was Don's "error," and in fact I might think that's too strong a word. He knows graphics card power needs as well as anyone. I think he was looking at 450W 80+ Gold PSUs, saw a great deal on a modular 750W PSU, and jumped on it without investigating anything between them. In any case, he didn't choose a bad PSU, just one bigger than needed. It's too bad he didn't have the extra money for a bigger SSD, but what's done is done.

 

[Crashman]

I don't think that was Don's "error," and in fact I might think that's too strong a word. He knows graphics card power needs as well as anyone. I think he was looking at 450W 80+ Gold PSUs, saw a great deal on a modular 750W PSU, and jumped on it without investigating anything between them. In any case, he didn't choose a bad PSU, just one bigger than needed. It's too bad he didn't have the extra money for a bigger SSD, but what's done is done.

Like I said, you're going to have a love/hate relationship with my PSU

 

[slomo4sho]

Like I said, you're going to have a love/hate relationship with my PSU

One would love to hate and hate to love your PSU

 

[InvalidError]

If you take out the form factor argument, which is clearly wrong

Not entirely wrong: is it physically possible to cram enough power-hungry components on an ITX motherboard+case to reach anywhere near 750W? Even using the rumored 220W AMD CPUs, you probably wouldn't break 500W even with a dual-GPU card in there - assuming you could fit both the CPU HSF and GPUs in an ITX case.

 

[ojas]

I don't think that was Don's "error," and in fact I might think that's too strong a word. He knows graphics card power needs as well as anyone. I think he was looking at 450W 80+ Gold PSUs, saw a great deal on a modular 750W PSU, and jumped on it without investigating anything between them. In any case, he didn't choose a bad PSU, just one bigger than needed. It's too bad he didn't have the extra money for a bigger SSD, but what's done is done.

Like I said, you're going to have a love/hate relationship with my PSU

I predict 1.2kW Platiunum rated, modular, fanless 😛

 

[Crashman]

I don't think that was Don's "error," and in fact I might think that's too strong a word. He knows graphics card power needs as well as anyone. I think he was looking at 450W 80+ Gold PSUs, saw a great deal on a modular 750W PSU, and jumped on it without investigating anything between them. In any case, he didn't choose a bad PSU, just one bigger than needed. It's too bad he didn't have the extra money for a bigger SSD, but what's done is done.

Like I said, you're going to have a love/hate relationship with my PSU

I predict 1.2kW Platiunum rated, modular, fanless 😛

Or how about an appropriate capacity but way overpriced high-end unit?

 

[slomo4sho]

Or how about an appropriate capacity but way overpriced high-end unit?

That would depend on the premium paid for the high end model over a similar capacity model from a quality brand.

 

[RedJaron]

Or how about an appropriate capacity but way overpriced high-end unit?

Considering you've got a $2600 budget and a very limited chassis to fit that much money in, I'm calling something like this:

Asus P8Z77-I
i7-3770K
Titan GPU
Liquid cooling ( my only question is whether you liquid cooled the Titan too )
16GB RAM
256GB SSD ( thinking M4, 840 Pro, or Vector )
2TB Caviar Black
SeaSonic 760 modular 80 Plat rating

PCPartPicker part list
How close am I?

 

[RedJaron]

Your doing the 1300 build so my guess is
seasonic ssr 650 gold
video 2 7870's not xt's
cpu i5 4670k

Actually this was the $1300 build. Tom has $2600. And you can't get two GPUs in an ITX build.

 

[computertech82]

With the price of the cpu, might as well go with a haswell cpu.

 

[Combat Wombat]

The fan on top of that case is the worst thing I have ever laid my eyes on

 

[slomo4sho]

Considering you've got a $2600 budget and a very limited chassis to fit that much money in, I'm calling something like this:

Asus P8Z77-I
i7-3770K
Titan GPU
Liquid cooling ( my only question is whether you liquid cooled the Titan too )
16GB RAM
256GB SSD ( thinking M4, 840 Pro, or Vector )
2TB Caviar Black
SeaSonic 760 modular 80 Plat rating

PCPartPicker part list
How close am I?

If I were a betting man:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($319.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H110 94.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-I DELUXE/WD Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($207.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Dominator Platinum 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($353.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 690 4GB Video Card ($999.99 @ Newegg)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case ($95.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 660W 80 PLUS Platinum Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($148.54 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $2597.99