System Builder Marathon, Q2 2014: Our Budget Gaming PC

[CaptainTom]

Complaining about upgrading makes no sense at all. This PC will last 4 years or more just fine. By then the user would want a full upgrade with 10nm CPU's and DDR4.

 

[mapesdhs]

THANK YOU for finally including the cost of the OS! This is a HUGE budget consideration, ESPECIALLY for those working on low-cost builds.

I agree, it's a good change.

Btw, I don't know about the US, but in the UK there's a large supply of original,
fully legit, unused Win7/Pro/64bit OEM packs complete with COA available on
eBay for around 35 to 40 UKP each BIN with free shipping (I bought ten,
excellent deal). By 'large' I mean hundreds of them.

They come from unsold entry-level business desktops, eg. Dell Vostro units.
Broker companies sell them off with a bit of hw (of course); better for them than
trying to sell low-spec, out of date Celeron/Sempron systems I guess. Anyway,
it's a good alternative price-wise unless one really wants to have Win8, and about
60% cheaper than exactly the same Win7 OEM pack from a normal seller site,
or indeed Win8 64bit Pro OEM which is more than 100 UKP here. The 70 UKP
saved can then be put towards a substantially better GPU (enough to get an
R9 280 or 280X).

Ian.

 

[grokem]

I always love reading the system builds even if the format can be a bit frustrating for various reasons. That said, I really like the change of making the non-performance parts of the machine a separate line item. I'm not sure I would have put the case in the same category as an optical drive or the OS. Here is how I would break down the costs. I'm not 100% sure the "Platform" section shouldn't just be part of the "Performance" section since the form factor of the case affects the other components. For example, if you go with an ITX case you are probably going to pay more for the MB and cooling. I would love to read more about what accessories each of you would add especially keyboards and monitors. I'm sure these would remain the same but it would be more interesting than reading about which DVD drive is the cheapest.

[Performance]
CPU
GPU
Memory
Motherboard
Storage (HDD & SDD)
[Platform]
Case
Cooling (CPU & GPU water/air)
[Accessories]
Monitor
Keyboard
OS
Mouse/Trackball
Speakers
Fan Controlers
LEDs
Drink Holders/Optical Drives

 

[mapesdhs]

pauldh, who is it that maintains the GPU charts? I was wondering what '*emul'
means in the listings. Does it mean that entry is emulated/estimated somehow?

I was looking at the Unigine Heaven 1080 table, which has some odd results,
eg. a Quadro K5000 is listed as being faster than a GTX 580 (it's not; a reference
580 is 5% faster, typical 580 anywhere between 10% and 15% faster), and the
the 580 is described as a '580 Ti' (eh?). Likewise, there's a '570 Ti' in the list.

Ian.

 

[jlwtech]

I am huge on performance per dollar, and I spend a lot of time hunting down deals.
I build-and-sell gaming rigs on the side, and most fall between $600 and $900.
So.. This section of the SBM always attracts my attention. I love to compare notes.

I think this build is much better thought-out than most of the budget builds I have seen in the last 2 years. You were very thorough, and it's a great build!

However, I find myself disagreeing with this statement about the GFX card: "In fact, for what we had available to spend, we couldn't have done better."
Yes, you could have. (sorry)
The r7 265 offers excellent performance per dollar, but there are better options:

For $120, the HD 6970: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131578

For $120, the HD 7850: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150642

For $160: The r9-270. (I don't know where you got $190 from, but they have been under $175 for a while.) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202090

For $170, The GTX 660: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125508
(The extra $10 - $20 could have been obtained by selecting a smaller HDD.)

Other than that, this build is spot-on.
I can't wait to see the next budget SBM with the G3258!!

 

[pauldh]

I am huge on performance per dollar, and I spend a lot of time hunting down deals.
I build-and-sell gaming rigs on the side, and most fall between $600 and $900.
So.. This section of the SBM always attracts my attention. I love to compare notes.

I think this build is much better thought-out than most of the budget builds I have seen in the last 2 years. You were very thorough, and it's a great build!

However, I find myself disagreeing with this statement about the GFX card: "In fact, for what we had available to spend, we couldn't have done better."
Yes, you could have. (sorry)
The r7 265 offers excellent performance per dollar, but there are better options:

For $120, the HD 6970: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131578

For $120, the HD 7850: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150642

For $160: The r9-270. (I don't know where you got $190 from, but they have been under $175 for a while.) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202090

For $170, The GTX 660: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125508
(The extra $10 - $20 could have been obtained by selecting a smaller HDD.)

Other than that, this build is spot-on.
I can't wait to see the next budget SBM with the G3258!!

Thanks. Based on these comments, we are trying to become as transparent as possible as to why each part was chosen.

The key sometimes is grasping the specific goals of the build. Sometimes the previous rig remains so viable, we'll experiment by fine-tuning the budget or purpose. Also, just remembering we didn't buy these machines today or even know what today's prices would be.

Graphics - To clarify, our parts were ordered mid-May. The $120/$150/$190 prices as I quoted were accurate the week this machine was spec'ed and purchased. Only mail-in rebates changed that outlook. There wasn't a single other (new) card in stock $170 or less that could even match this R7 265, not from any generation. It was actually a concern I shared, and mine was the first ordered, because if this card had sold out, my whole build would require changes to stay near budget. (All other 265's carried a $20 premium).

But before order, I went through every card in the $90--200 range to see my options. Granted, this can (and does sometimes) change overnight, never mind over weeks. This is why I document and later share the cost of the best alternatives I could have used instead of the parts I did pick. Unfortunately, it was a horrible time to buy a GTX 660, price wise. In $100-200 cards, Radeons were dominating in pure bang for the buck.

But as mentioned in the text, there was a lot of downward movement in graphics pricing since our order was placed. It changes things for sure.

 

[pauldh]

always like your sbm choices paul, as of late it is getting hard not to recommend the fx6300 though, even if a few sacrifices have to be made.

Thanks.

Yeah, I hear ya there. I'd like to see FX-6300 + R7 260X take on this build. But hopefully G3258 remains an option. Shoot, and if only FX-4300 would drop to $100. We could have fun with that.

One of my issues in even considering X4 760K is it just moves us one step closer to FX-4, which is usually too close to FX-6 anyway. Currently $80/$90/$110/$120. Which to chose?

Firm budgets will dictate the step you hit. Had my graphics card been $140, sure I could easily have put $10 more into a 760K. But did I want to drop the mobo down, or go to 4GB to get one?

In reality, how many people would handicap a build to save $20?

 

[maktovic]

Great Build but I would still vote for i3 4130 + inexpensive H81 m-ATX motherboard and maybe a more cheap case (obviously will have less airflow which won't be a problem with i3 4130).
i3 4150 will be the best choice( in terms of more options for future upgrade) but H97 chipset motherboard's price will be way to high for a $500 build.

Even FX-6350 at stock settings performs same as i3-4130 in a game like Watchdogs.
http://www.techspot.com/review/827-watch-dogs-benchmarks/page5.html

 

[pauldh]

Complaining about upgrading makes no sense at all. This PC will last 4 years or more just fine. By then the user would want a full upgrade with 10nm CPU's and DDR4.

4 years, just fine? You think so? As built? I'd feel much safer making that claim if packing your sig's i7-4770K, or at least knowing I could pop one in place if/when needed.

Keep in mind the X4 750K is already slower than 5-6 year old Phenom II X4 and Core 2 Quad. So are we saying those CPUs last 10 years just fine? I guess we'd have to define what is meant by "just fine".

There are already games that hammer this CPU, right here and now? Look at Arma III, StarCraft II, Watch Dogs, etc. All require reduced settings or suffer some major slow downs. So over the next 4 years, are you really confident this machine will be just fine as built and no thoughts should be put into upgrade potential?

 

[LookItsRain]

Complaining about upgrading makes no sense at all. This PC will last 4 years or more just fine. By then the user would want a full upgrade with 10nm CPU's and DDR4.

4 years, just fine? You think so? As built? I'd feel much safer making that claim if packing your sig's i7-4770K, or at least knowing I could pop one in place if/when needed.

Keep in mind the X4 750K is already slower than 5-6 year old Phenom II X4 and Core 2 Quad. So are we saying those CPUs last 10 years just fine? I guess we'd have to define what is meant by "just fine".

There are already games that hammer this CPU, right here and now? Look at Arma III, StarCraft II, Watch Dogs, etc. All require reduced settings or suffer some major slow downs. So over the next 4 years, are you really confident this machine will be just fine as built and no thoughts should be put into upgrade potential?

This was the whole point of my first comment(sorry double post). That X4 750K is already struggling in some titles. I just think 50-100 dollars extra on the hardware cost would go quite a long way, other than buying a whole new mobo and CPU a year or two later. Just my 2 cents.

 

[pauldh]

@ LookItsRain - Hey, no problem. I get your point and was surprised to see upgrades treated as irrelevant and/or evil by so many.

There's reason to stick to a budget. And there is reason to buy the best you can afford now, rather than save up longer. There is reason to NOT overspend or make too many sacrifices just to be ready for upgrades.

But, none of that means all users/builders are the same, or that each shouldn't have a plan tailored to their needs. Not all people should focus only on grabbing the best performance on purchase day (as I tried to do here with this build). It's nice to have a choice.

I support at least knowing the upgrade potential of your platform, and at least giving it some consideration. If it means nothing to you, fine. But if you want to build/upgrade in stages, that's fine too. Especially on limited funds or if you have parts to port over from another build.

 

[pauldh]

Based on the Celeron build of a year or so ago, would it be worthwhile to look at a Kabini build as a gamer targeting 1920x1080, or does the x4 PCIe lane-limit make that an utter waste of time? If not, that platform would free up money for the graphics card.

haha.... I would not say it is a waste of time, just not the most practical. It could certainly be a fun experiment, especially for a bonus build. Though, in an SBM I'd see it sipping power with a GTX 750 Ti rather than the going all too crazy and unbalanced. (Though the Celeron was a fun experimental build) The hard thing is finding perfect balance on a budget is tough. At 1920x1080, do your games need more CPU or GPU? It just varies so much, by the individual game.

 

[pauldh]

I'm very happy to see the return of smaller budgets. The price shifting for performance vs non-performance parts and including the OS is interesting as well.

Paul, I've read quite a few things that says the 760K's memory controller is much improved over the 750K. Also, your article from last year suggested the 750K fell behind due to lack of L3. However, if you compare the OC'd 750K scores to the stock 4350 scores ( at which point they're only 100 MHz apart, ) the 750K doesn't trail much most of the time. The reason I've read is because the 750K can hit RAM almost as fast as the 4350 reaches its L3. So yes, the 750K is impacted a little, but not as much as many people may think. I'd be very interested to see benchmarks between a 750K, 760K, and 4350 at the same clock paired with fast RAM.

Hey, that could make a great story for sure. Though, my hunch is you still don't squeeze that much extra from 760K, unless also hitting higher clocks. At least, I think you'll spend a lot on a quest to surpass mildly tuned FX-4300 on a stock cooler.

Since I treat SBMs like real builds, I'm not in favor of spending $10 more on the CPU, more on a beefy mobo, more on high-speed RAM, and a cooler, just to squeeze the most performance from the platform. That's fun, but hard to justify if better options exist at the same /cheaper price. (unless those have been rehashed already). If we did these monthly, or if I did two builds each quarter, then I'd see a lot more pure experimentation slipping in.

 

[allanitomwesh]

The enthusiast rig isn't very compelling...budget FTW

 

[Onus]

As to the build itself, nothing about it makes me gnash my teeth. While I'm inclined to believe the 750K may not be the best choice, I don't think it's a settled issue, and this machine is hardly "incompetent." This makes it a useful data point.

 

[Onus]

Based on the Celeron build of a year or so ago, would it be worthwhile to look at a Kabini build as a gamer targeting 1920x1080, or does the x4 PCIe lane-limit make that an utter waste of time?

haha.... I would not say it is a waste of time, just not the most practical. It could certainly be a fun experiment, especially for a bonus build....

Oh yeah...
bo-nus...bo-nus...bo-nus...bo-nus...bo-nus...bo-nus... (you know you want to do it!)

That Celeron was a very useful data point.

 

[de5_Roy]

amusingly, this build may be a gaming build for playing mantle-supported games(the amd api). since the cpu toils to play cpu-bound games, one can play mantle-supported games with the current gfx card as well as with a new radeon like r9 280 non-x or r9 290 as upgrades. upcoming dx12 api is also aiming to reduce cpu overhead, so dx12 supported games should be good for this build.

 

[Onus]

^Now that makes Kabini an even more interesting possibility, combined with an AMD card to get Mantle support...

bo-nus...bo-nus...bo-nus...

 

[pauldh]

Onus, I'm just hoping the G3258 release opens the market up, shaking up stagnant prices. Purely from a selfish 'me wants" consumer standpoint, it's a bit frustrating to see the FX-6300 go back up to $120, rather than FX-4300 coming down. (Even if they are great buys). The 750K is decent, but it's just not moving either. Past experiences soil it... as ages ago we watched X4 965 BE drop well under $100. Now half way through 2014, I want more for that money, not less.

 

[de5_Roy]

^Now that makes Kabini an even more interesting possibility, combined with an AMD card to get Mantle support...

bo-nus...bo-nus...bo-nus...

i want to agree..... but i think kabini socs bottleneck gaming cards (260x and up) too much for mantle to reduce the overhead. it's not just cpu overhead, you have reduced memory performance and no cpu o.c. options (afaik). imo, athlon 5350 with gtx 750/750ti is the best combo for am1 platform.

edit: it'd certainly be a fun experiment, though,

 

[pauldh]

LOL, just saw the "bonus" chants.

Hey, I'd request to do far more of those if I had the time. The cheap two I did last year were quite fun.

This quarter, we talked about it, but none of us could pull it off.

 

[mobrocket]

If Linux gaming was not still in its infancy, that an extra hundred bones to spend on hardware. Cus at the end of the day for gamers, windows doesnt offer something special, its just a necessary evil

 

[lunyone]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($112.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.97 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($77.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($79.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($54.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Superclocked Video Card ($129.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cougar Solution (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($37.99 @ Mwave)
Power Supply: XFX TS 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($25.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer ($14.98 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($84.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $633.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Only problem is there are $45 in MIR's, which the SBM doesn't include into the price. That would put the build closer to $700 and to me would be a bit too high for the $500 build w/o the OS. Also the SBM is Newegg only, which would add cost to the build a bit more. I personally like having the "Budget" build to have a firm budget of $500 w/no MIR's (cause not all of them always work), but promo codes and combo deals still being valid. Also having the OS separate, but listed in the final price is okay. Like I stated before, people can get the OS at varying prices (students can usually get it pretty cheap and some people have access to less than retail prices).

 

[Isaiah4110]

I hope you stick with the budgets in the future, it seems pretty silly comparing machines from quarter to quarter with wildly fluctuation budgets. It's also nice that budget actually means entry level budget and that the cap is $1500. It seems like after that amount it just ends up throwing money at things because they sound cool rather than really changing the performance of the machine all that much.

Hopefully next time we will get the see the G3258 in the budget gaming rig since even Tom's own article showed the 3258 pretty much destroying the 750k in games across the board . . . or maybe AMD could come up with something that's actually worth buying over other offerings?

$750 before the OS/peripherals is way too rich a starting point. We get that.

What happens though is, our options grow stagnant at the same budgets, and the stories/comparisons start lacking. So we creep the budget up over time seeking a worthy upgrade, or out of curiosity, both ours and readers. Eventually, this one is not a "budget" build in many eyes, and rightfully so. At that point we work back down or simply chop it down. Occasionally new hardware launches fall outside our budgets, but deserve a closer look.

But thanks. Your feedback is noted, and I too would like to explore all worthy options appearing down here such as the G3258.

Have you ever considered requiring a switch from Intel to AMD (or vice-versa) every build (or simply when the builds start stagnating)? I think that would add a great dimension to the SBM as we all know it is very rare to see a change in which build wins the overall value comparison. This way the SBM would also serve as a running comparison of which platform is currently better in its price range with other components you would expect to find in that level of PC.

In other words, this time you went with the AMD 750K, so next quarter you would be required to build an Intel platform (forcing you into a decision between Pentium and i3) and giving a great comparison between the two systems at the same price range. The mid range and high end builds almost always run with the unlocked Core i5, so this would also force them to try out AMD options and then we get CPU performance comparisons in realistic systems at those price ranges as well.

 

[mapesdhs]

... Like I stated before, people can get the OS at varying prices (students can usually get it pretty cheap and some people have access to less than retail prices).

Or if you're in the UK, get this instead (typical but not the cheapest), so one can spend the
surplus on a better GPU or whatever:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141322730605

The cheapest I found was only 25 UKP (about $40) - that's a full 80 UKP less than getting
Win7/64/Pro OEM from a normal seller source.

I expect similar items are on other eBay/etc. sites.

Ian.