System Builder Marathon Q2 2015: $1600 Performance PC

[Frozen Fractal]

I think I could have done a lot better for $1600 but my preferences aren't everyone's and this is still a solid build. Also unless I'm mistaken the tom's builds always go by newegg prices. The idea being, it's a realistic representation of a build that at that budget anyone can go to newegg and put that build together for that price as a one stop shop. Trouble is, newegg isn't the best price in town anymore. They used to be and sometimes they still have good value. It's nothing against their customer service or anything but it pays to shop around. The processor alone I could knock $100 off the build simply by going to a microcenter (which isn't possible for everyone if they don't live nearby). For $13 more than that 250gb 850 evo ssd costs through newegg I can go to amazon and get the 850 evo 500gb ssd. Going with the 250gb 850 evo I could shave another $40 off that build price.

Bottom line, by not simply shopping around newegg already costs nearly $150 more for the same build on just 2 components. Which is why I don't shop there exclusively anymore. That represents poor value to me when just two components of an entire build already put their customers paying a 10% price premium. Nothing value about it.

Well, as far as I know, Newegg provides MSRP price tag most of the time, so this makes a "standard" price of those parts. Sure, you can shave off $200 or more from different etailers but I guess you do understand, it's very much variable.

 

[ingtar33]

Looks like a solid build but the thing sticking out like such a sore thumb is that overpriced under performing cooler.

For the same price as that cpu cooler the build could have easily supported the thermalright true spirit 140 power which is a much better cooler.

It looks solid, and Newegg even lists a few of Thermalright's bigger models for a similar price. The only snag in the "Newegg supplies the parts, we give the machines away" agreement is that Newegg has to supply the parts. None of the Thermalright coolers on Newegg are actually carried by Newegg, and they won't pay for items shipped from a "partner".

yeah. i had to dig around to find my thermalright hr02 macho rev.b; it's definitely not available on newegg, but it's cooling ability is out of this world. Shame you were so constricted.

 

[RazberyBandit]

I do not understand why everyone goes with the wd blue 1tb, or baracuda.

I mean I find plenty of Hitachi 2tb for same prices, and they also have a lower fail rate percentage than those two also. (Hitachi was bought out from WD while back)

I can't recommend WD Blue or Seagate Baracuda drives when there are what I feel is a better product available for only a few dollars more. But I'm not certain what 2TB Hitachi drives you were referencing. Were you speaking of older, genuine Hitachi drives, like the 7K1000 or 5K1000? WD-owned HGST drives have been disappearing. Newegg is presently selling only one HGST drive; an Ultrastar 1TB model for $90. Any genuine Hitachi-made drives are old stock being sold off by smaller, lesser-known distributors, making availability quite limited. And Hitachi was sold just as SATA-III 6.0Gb/s became available, making most old Hitachi stock SATA-II 3.0Gb/s.

Additionally, please remember that Hitachi's 3.5" hard drive manufacturing went to Toshiba; not everything went solely to Western Digital.

When replacing some old SATA-II WD Black 640GB drives, I chose some retail-packaged versions of the (formerly) Hitachi-built Toshiba DT01ACA200 (2TB) hard drives when I found them on sale for $70ea. Under the Toshiba label, these drives are nearly identical to the often highly-touted Hitachi Deskstar 7K-series drives.

These drives also natively support RAID, which the WD Blue and Seagate Baracuda drives no longer do. As such, I decided to grab four of them and built a 4TB RAID 1+0 array for just under $300. Large file read performance rivals a fast SSD, touching 500MB/s, with write performance not too far behind that of a mid-range SSD. In comparison to the WD Blue and Seagate 'Cuda, you get an additional year of warranty coverage (3-years versus 2-years) plus genuine RAID support, which you don't get from WD & Seagate unless you choose their more expensive Red/RedPro/Re/Se or NAS/ES/ES.3 models, respectively. These Toshiba drives were a logical choice for me.

I know desktop-based RAID isn't popular, but that's partly because SSD prices have fallen below $.50/GB, and partly because affordable performance drives from the two biggest HDD manufacturers no longer support RAID. There was a time when there were many, many more HDD manufacturers than there are today. (See here.) Now, we're left with three; WD, Seagate, and Toshiba. Of the three, Toshiba's market share is tiny in comparison to the other two. But unlike WD and Seagate, Toshiba offers RAID support in its drives, and I would very much like to see someone at Tom's explore its potential.

 

[synphul]

That makes sense that there's a partnership and even newegg supplied parts have to meet certain conditions for the build. I hadn't noticed the thermalright coolers weren't actually carried by newegg.

Of course pricing is variable, it's always variable. Even newegg's prices have fluctuated from time to time (not including mir's which are extra). Their prices could change tomorrow. I was simply going by the prices available right at the moment. There was a point in time when regardless what the part was, if newegg had it then they offered it at the lowest price or equally low price as the competition. That's just not the case anymore. I still shop there, they've always been great and their shipping is pretty prompt. Those willing to put a little effort in to find better deals can typically do so.

If it were merely $20 difference between buying the build exclusively through the egg vs pricing out from various sources it may not be worth the hassle. However it might be worth it to someone to know they could have the same identical build here at the same price but instead of the gtx 970 they could be getting an upgrade to a gtx 980 or possibly even a gtx 980ti. That's significant. I wish newegg were able to remain a bit more competitive. Years ago I shopped around (before pcpartpicker) and tried to find better deals. Ended up making my entire build for the best price through newegg. As a result they were my easy 'go to' for anything I needed. The last two rigs I upgraded I think I bought a couple mobo's and one other component from them, the rest ended up from ncixus, tigerdirect and amazon. Saved me enough to afford upgrading two rigs instead of one.

Given the conditions of the giveaway it makes sense that these particular parts fall within tighter criteria that may not apply to a typical diy building scenario. There have been some odd price point builds in the past that had people scratching their heads but within the restrictions this was one of the better builds I think.

 

[Sn3akr]

I don't see the point in the DVD-burner, Not even for the OS media, as this i DL'able on MS website, same for the software to make the USB install drive.. I'd rather see the price for a descent USB 3.0/3.1 drive to pop the OS onto included in the build instead. I know 0 people that can't at least lend a PC in under 5 min.to make the installl drive for installing the OS. My DVD-drive were thrown out long ago, only still exists in my HTPC. And whatever new builds i make for people is also without a DVD-drive.

 

[atheus]

I'd say the solution to your CPU cooling budget problem is the unnecessary optical drive. I need an optical drive like I need a PS/2 port. That aside, anyone investing in an extreme edition CPU who can't figure out how to install Windows without a DVD deserves to be mocked.

Even if it's the only option available for whatever reason, a recent survey I conducted among my imaginary friends a few seconds ago showed that 99.3% of people with the knowledge and time to build computers already have an optical drive sitting around somewhere if they need one temporarily for an OS install.

 

[aebome]

Addressing the articles questions as to another sub-$50 cooler, definitely look into Cryorig, specifically its H5A cooler. At $47, it performs very well, right along with the Thermalright Macho Rev.B, at a smaller size. Cryorig is something to look at. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4UF1W87430

 

[ammaross]

I do not understand why everyone goes with the wd blue 1tb, or baracuda.
I mean I find plenty of Hitachi 2tb for same prices, and they also have a lower fail rate percentage than those two also. (Hitachi was bought out from WD while back)

Actually Hitachi was bought BY Western Digital in 2012. But Hitachi drives still have the best failure rates. But a WD is a better move then a Seagate any day.

 

[Calculatron]

Good looking out on the NiC C5 for $50, any idea how the NiC C4 at $45 or the NiC L32 at $38 compare?

Sorry for the delayed reply; I set to the task of trying to find any corresponding benchmarks. I succeeded, but the collection of links I have found is... eclectic. Take them with a heap of salt, since each site, obviously, uses its own set of standards and testbench.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/thermaltake_nic_c4/4.htm (NiC C4 and C5)
https://youtu.be/tx0dPy-skYk?t=159 - This is in Russian! (Has the three Thermaltake products in question!)
http://www.nikktech.com/main/articles/pc-hardware/cpu-cooling/cpu-air-coolers/4147-thermaltake-nic-l32-non-interference-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=5 (NiC C5 and NiC L32)
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6916/thermaltake-nic-l32-non-interference-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html (NiC L32 and NiC C5)

I think it is safe to say that there is negligible difference between the NiC C5 and C4. Really, the only physical difference is that the NiC C4 has one less heatpipe, which does not necessarily carry a meaningful difference. The NiC L32 is a different beast, and seem to offer similar performance that is measurably worse. None of them are bad, by any means.

Now that I am done vomiting out that information, wasn't the NiC L32 actually used in a SBM?

EDIT - Ah ha! I knew it looked familiar! The NiC L32 was used in your Balanced High-End Build one year ago (Q2 2014)!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-under-1600,3855-3.html

 

[synphul]

Not everyone had high speed internet despite the push for technology. In many areas 3g is about the best you can get and many forms of internet access are still suffering from bandwidth limitations even if they have the speed for larger downloads. A dvd drive comes in handy when you don't feel like waiting days for 50gb worth of a game to download. Or when you wish to make additional backups of files, burn video etc. It's not really a bright comment to assume that people who use optical drives don't know what they're doing with pc's simply because there are those who don't have a need. Just as many think including an optical drive is a bad move, people like myself think there's no reason for brands like nzxt to omit the ability to add 5.25 components to a case especially given their physical size. To each their own I suppose. If someone built me a system (which wouldn't happen since I build my own) and didn't include an optical drive for $1600 they'd be getting it right back considering they cost no more than a decent case fan.

 

[Crashman]

Good looking out on the NiC C5 for $50, any idea how the NiC C4 at $45 or the NiC L32 at $38 compare?

Sorry for the delayed reply; I set to the task of trying to find any corresponding benchmarks. I succeeded, but the collection of links I have found is... eclectic. Take them with a heap of salt, since each site, obviously, uses its own set of standards and testbench.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/thermaltake_nic_c4/4.htm (NiC C4 and C5)
https://youtu.be/tx0dPy-skYk?t=159 - This is in Russian! (Has the three Thermaltake products in question!)
http://www.nikktech.com/main/articles/pc-hardware/cpu-cooling/cpu-air-coolers/4147-thermaltake-nic-l32-non-interference-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=5 (NiC C5 and NiC L32)
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6916/thermaltake-nic-l32-non-interference-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html (NiC L32 and NiC C5)

I think it is safe to say that there is negligible difference between the NiC C5 and C4. Really, the only physical difference is that the NiC C4 has one less heatpipe, which does not necessarily carry a meaningful difference. The NiC L32 is a different beast, and seem to offer similar performance that is measurably worse. None of them are bad, by any means.

Now that I am done vomiting out that information, wasn't the NiC L32 actually used in a SBM?

EDIT - Ah ha! I knew it looked familiar! The NiC L32 was used in your Balanced High-End Build one year ago (Q2 2014)!
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-under-1600,3855-3.html

Yes, I realized it was relatively mediocre but never did figure out if it was worse than the Cooler Master.

 

[jasonelmore]

Your Samsung 850 Evo 250Gb is grossly overpriced and can be purchase much much lower than your price.. Amazon has the 850 EVO 500GB for $160

 

[Crashman]

Your Samsung 850 Evo 250Gb is grossly overpriced and can be purchase much much lower than your price.. Amazon has the 850 EVO 500GB for $160

If you click the link it says $110. It's too bad the site killed the "Price we paid" table.

 

[synphul]

Unfortunately the pricing game is a volatile one when it comes to tech gear. On the bright side, the price difference went down substantially rather than up on the evo ssd. No such thing as building a solid pricing table, it's just the way the market is. All anyone can do is get close and kind of roll with the changes.

 

[Crashman]

Unfortunately the pricing game is a volatile one when it comes to tech gear. On the bright side, the price difference went down substantially rather than up on the evo ssd. No such thing as building a solid pricing table, it's just the way the market is. All anyone can do is get close and kind of roll with the changes.

The "Price we paid" table provides some justification for the parts we chose. It's static because the price we paid never changes. Removing it creates confusion concerning the component selection process.

 

[TNT27]

I'm willing to bet hitachi branded drives don't sell but maybe 1/10th or less of the volume than seagate or wd drives do also which can skew the results of fail percentages. They're not terrible drives. Samsung spinpoint were decent drives too. However the only 2tb model I found that was cheaper than the typical seagate or wd blue drives also was reviewed on tom's a mere 4+ years ago. Other places reviewed it nearly 5yrs ago. That was shortly after seagate's 7200.10 perpendicular recording method. Aka, it's old as dirt which is why it's low priced.

Not everyone goes with wd blue drives. I wasn't the one putting the system together but for a 'performance' pc with a budget heading closer to $2k I think I would've sprung for a wd black or wd re4 with a longer warranty and twice the cache as the wd blue. Both my systems run wd re4's. Blue's are more of the budget line for average desktops which see light to moderate use and may not be seeing 24/7 use.

I think I could have done a lot better for $1600 but my preferences aren't everyone's and this is still a solid build. Also unless I'm mistaken the tom's builds always go by newegg prices. The idea being, it's a realistic representation of a build that at that budget anyone can go to newegg and put that build together for that price as a one stop shop. Trouble is, newegg isn't the best price in town anymore. They used to be and sometimes they still have good value. It's nothing against their customer service or anything but it pays to shop around. The processor alone I could knock $100 off the build simply by going to a microcenter (which isn't possible for everyone if they don't live nearby). For $13 more than that 250gb 850 evo ssd costs through newegg I can go to amazon and get the 850 evo 500gb ssd. Going with the 250gb 850 evo I could shave another $40 off that build price.

Bottom line, by not simply shopping around newegg already costs nearly $150 more for the same build on just 2 components. Which is why I don't shop there exclusively anymore. That represents poor value to me when just two components of an entire build already put their customers paying a 10% price premium. Nothing value about it.

If you read what I posted i said a lower percantage of Hitachi drives fail than the percantage of both baracuda and WD drives. That is not influenced by number of drives bought. Just to clarify


Also Technology hasnt changed much for HDD. Double the Storage, with slightly lower percante of failure, and easily found 5-10$ within competing 1tb WD blue or Baracuda drives, i would take that anyday.