System Builder Marathon, Q4 2012: $2,000 Performance PC

[gsxrme]

And the 2600k and 2700k is still on the market. either 1 of those 2 CPUs should of been used.

400Mhz lead on the 3000 series they have. Ivy bridge fail it did! hm...

 

[gsxrme]

We can't even say the ivy's memory controller is even being used at its fullest seeing we have 1600Mhz crap going in. Sandy should of been used

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]adgjlsfhk[/nom]Can you add an article that includes these and the special $000 pc from last quarter? I really want to see how it does against the new one.[/citation]It's a little late to add an article to show the old data, and gathering new data would be impossible since the system already shipped to a giveaway winner. Sorry.[citation][nom]blibba[/nom]Why not do without the top drive cage?[/citation]Good question. I try to reduce cable clutter by using fewer cables, but one more power lead and one less drive cage could have been a good option.[citation][nom]Sooth1[/nom]I noticed that there were 2 crossfire bridges both connected for 2 cards?[/citation]That's just for looks, it neither helps nor hinders performance and keeps other guys from asking why both weren't used.[citation][nom]MasterMace[/nom]This $2000 build is excellent, I love it. The memory and motherboard issues can be fixed within the $100 cushion you have, as well.I hope we can see the alternative build look at fixes for the $2000 build.[/citation]The only memory "issue" was fixed for free, setting XMP after initially forgetting to do so, and the updated numbers are the only ones shown. A better motherboard and CPU cooler would be the first thing I'd try, and maybe remove the center hard drive cage as suggested by another reader.[citation][nom]JohnUSA[/nom]You are nuts to spend $780 (41% of budget) on the video cards.There are better and cheaper alternatives.[/citation]After covering basic needs (storage and optical drive), the idea was to spend every available remaining dollar on boosting the overall performance score of this machine, and it's just easier to boost the gaming portion than the encoding portion of the test suite.[citation][nom]Teramedia[/nom]At first I was a bit concerned about your PSU given CF 7970s, but it looks like it was able to get the job done and have some room to spare.[/citation]656W max at the wall, but at 88% power supply efficiency, the PC drew only 578W max. Graphics card manufacturers recommend huge capacities only as a safeguard against low-quality over-rated units.

 

[balister]

On thing I don't understand is the universal use of ATX motherboards vs. Micro-ATX motherboards. There are a large number of Micro-ATX MBs that have dual PCI-E 3.0 slots and can have a PCI-E 2.0 as well as potentially one or two PCI-E x1 or regular PCI. Combine this with 2 SATA 3 connectors and typically 4 SATA 2 connectors with 4 memory slots at prices that are typically $20 to $30 less than comparable ATX motherboards. This would allow for cost savings on the case as well (there are a number of well made Micro-ATX towers) thus allowing for more money to be spent on things like cooling (case fans, cpu heatsink, and the like) and better CPUs and Video Cards (depending on your taste). If we're honestly looking at a hardware shootout where price savings would help improve performance, the team and Tom's really should be looking outside the box more on things like using non-ATX or large sized boards (you've already shown with this month's mid level system to be looking outside the box even if said system was dud on performance).

 

[g-unit1111]

Motherboards are backbones to the computer and taking corners on budgets isn't worth it. Should of used the Maximus 5 Extreme

Yeah and then you waste a huge chunk of your budget getting a motherboard that doesn't really do anything differently that a board that cost 1/2 as much does, no point in that.

You are nuts to spend $780 (41% of budget) on the video cards.
There are better and cheaper alternatives.

What??? You're paying $2K for a gaming rig. You do not in any way cut corners on the graphics card, that's where the games need it the most.

 

[ojas]

[citation][nom]balister[/nom]On thing I don't understand is the universal use of ATX motherboards vs. Micro-ATX motherboards.[/citation]
Easier to work with, and more space also means slightly better thermals because stuff's more spread out. Nothing usually gets in the way, either. The price difference is usually negligible so why not get the bigger one?
The same logic applies to micro ATX towers: more cramped, possibly shitty thermals, components don't fit.

I went from a no-name micro ATX to an HAF 912, i just simply detest micro atx cases now :lol:

 

[TeraMedia]

@crashman: My math on the PSU went something like this: 75W (PCIe) + 75W (6-pin) plus 150W (8-pin) = 300W. 2*300W = 600W for O/C GPUs. Add another ~100W for an O/C 3770K, 10W for HDD, 7W for fans, and you're pushing much closer to the 750W PSU capacity. Clearly the employed GPUs didn't use anywhere near 300W power. But if they and the CPU had O/C'ed better then power consumption could have been higher, bringing the system closer to max available. All that said, I have zero experience O/Cing GPUs so I have no way to estimate what level of power use to expect from an O/C'ed 7970, and as noted your PSU choice does indeed seem more than adequate. The PSU from last quarter had an extra 100 W, but that would have been completely unnecessary here. There even appears to be room to expand this system with a second HDD, another fan or two, and even extras like a Ceton card (PCIe port availability permitting).

I really like the fact that this has a BR disk player. If used for video at all, a high-end system is going to be used for high-fidelity video. Today unfortunately, that still means Blu-ray given the compression used by cable TV, Netflix, Youtube et. al. But the included burner makes that use case possible.

 

[balister]

[citation][nom]ojas[/nom]Easier to work with, and more space also means slightly better thermals because stuff's more spread out. Nothing usually gets in the way, either. The price difference is usually negligible so why not get the bigger one?The same logic applies to micro ATX towers: more cramped, possibly shitty thermals, components don't fit.I went from a no-name micro ATX to an HAF 912, i just simply detest micro atx cases now[/citation]

Then you're not getting the right Micro-ATX MBs and cases. There's a few Micro-ATX towers that are quite roomy and can take foot long video cards. Gigabyte makes a Micro-ATX MB that has dual PCI-E 3.0s, a PCI-2.0, a two PCI-E x1 (around $130).

 

[Onus]

While I agree that smaller cases can have thermal issues, that isn't necessarily true. The Fractal Design Define Mini I have may be the nicest case I've used, and it's got plenty of cooling.

Incidentally, for those whose native language is not English, "should of" is meaningless. "Should've" is a contraction of "Should have."
Furthermore, as one of my better professors used to tell us, saying what somebody "should have" done is pointless; it is only useful to try to figure out why they did what they did.

 

[anxiousinfusion]

" we definitely could have bought a more professional-looking case."

Am I the only one around here that likes a professional-looking gaming PC? No lights and rice, just a neat case.

 

[buzznut]

Agreed, a better motherboard and CPU cooler would have made a big difference. Regardless of the "high end" build, I would have chosen an i5 3570K (exactly what I did) since the real world performance difference is not that much.

This way you could afford an overclocking board like the msi M power or the Asrock OC formula. Then one could also get a superior cooler like the Corsair H100i which would fit in with the gaming theme even better. Or with the black and red theme, probably an EVGA board would do nicely.

 

[buzznut]

Actually tests show that the Corsair H100 is superior to every air cooler out there:

http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm

Plus there is the undeniable cool factor. If you're gonna build a gaming rig, then just do it.

 

[ProSnipor]

You had a hundred dollars left over, i would of totally thrown this in like an nzxt phantom or something of the like. The storm enforcer is decent and all but I'm really not a huge fan. Or you could of slapped an 100i on there, unless that case doesn't support it (most likely doesn't).

 

[internetlad]

[citation][nom]kj3639[/nom]After building that awful piledriver rig you go ahead and do something like this... and totally REDEEM YOURSELVES!!!-Good Job[/citation]
It's from Dumb and Dumber.

 

[Stevemeister]

I think think what would be interesting is if this was also run as a "system upgrade marathon". Many people who read this don't start completely from scratch everytime they build a new computer for example I have a Silverstone Temjin TJ07 Case, a 750W PC Power and Cooling Silencer PSU, a generic DVD RW, various HDD's and TFS Feser+Laing D5 Pump based water cooling system all of which (CPU waterblock excepted) I will continue to use for future builds even though the components that really make a difference to your actual computing experience - the MB, CPU, RAM, Graphics & SSD will change. Given a budget of $500, $1000, and $1500 it would be interesteing to see how things would pan out. The limitations with even this $2000 build was MB and cooling and for relatively little extra money (as a percentage of the total cost) it would have been possible to build something that would have overclocked much better.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]ProSnipor[/nom]You had a hundred dollars left over, i would of totally thrown this in like an nzxt phantom or something of the like. The storm enforcer is decent and all but I'm really not a huge fan. Or you could of slapped an 100i on there, unless that case doesn't support it (most likely doesn't).[/citation]Did you read the article? It started off with $$$ZERO$$$ left over, dropped $15 when all the good $50 coolers went out of stock (forcing a change to a $35 cooler), and only weeks later dropped from $1985 to $1900.

 

[Onus]

From the comments, too many people missed that this is NOT a gaming PC. It isn't, it's an overall performance PC. The CPU was chosen in this context, so please stop moaning about not choosing an i5; there is a performance difference in things other than games.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]gsxrme[/nom]And the 2600k and 2700k is still on the market. either 1 of those 2 CPUs should of been used. 400Mhz lead on the 3000 series they have. Ivy bridge fail it did! hm...[/citation]

A 400MHz lead on Ivy when Ivy has considerable performance per Hz improvements is almost totally irrelevant. Ivy didn't fail at all in performance compared to Sandy, it simply failed to be an improvement and that's easily rectified by enthusiasts who are willing to get rid of Intel's crap IHS to CPU die paste.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]Onus[/nom]While I agree that smaller cases can have thermal issues, that isn't necessarily true. The Fractal Design Define Mini I have may be the nicest case I've used, and it's got plenty of cooling.Incidentally, for those whose native language is not English, "should of" is meaningless. "Should've" is a contraction of "Should have."Furthermore, as one of my better professors used to tell us, saying what somebody "should have" done is pointless; it is only useful to try to figure out why they did what they did.[/citation]

There may be well-cooled micro-ATC cases, I know of a few others, but the graphics cards would at best be one slot apart and at worst be right on top of each other. That's generally not good for thermals, especially with overclocking, regardless of how good the case's cooling may be.

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]buzznut[/nom]Actually tests show that the Corsair H100 is superior to every air cooler out there:http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfmPlus there is the undeniable cool factor. If you're gonna build a gaming rig, then just do it.[/citation]

Most tests show otherwise. Even worse, Ivy is a whole other beast from most CPUs. They don't give off much heat, they just have trouble getting rid of what little heat that they do generate. You need not a cooler that is built to take heavy loads like water coolers and most high-end air coolers, but a cooler that is built to take a given load to the lowest temps possible. That means getting a cooler that has very high thermal conductivity and decent handling of higher loads.

Something such as the Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme is perfect for that because it's not just a ton of surface area and air flow, it's a high-end Direct-Touch heatpipes cooler that can get small loads of heat to very low temps while taking much higher loads pretty well and doing all of this quite quietly. Most water coolers share this weakness. Maybe something that had chilled water would do very well, but the H100 is not such a cooler and does not do all too well on Ivy. It's stil la great cooler, just not the best for the job.

 

[JonnyDough]

You (and everyone else) has said that Core i7's aren't worth the extra cash over an i5. So why even bother?

 

[blazorthon]

[citation][nom]JonnyDough[/nom]You (and everyone else) has said that Core i7's aren't worth the extra cash over an i5. So why even bother?[/citation]

They aren't for a gaming build. This is an all-around performance build, not a gaming build. This is where the i7s do matter.

 

[JonnyDough]

[citation][nom]ojas[/nom]Haha. Just goes to show how much more "gamey" my BestConfigs build could have been had i not been extravagant on things like liquid cooling and a Sabertooth board (and another SSD)[/citation]

In my opinion, excessive cooling and stuff is rarely worth it. Air is quiet, efficient, affordable.

 

[Gin Fushicho]

I have a good question... What is it with people and only getting 8GB's of RAM when they have everything else being so damned powerful? I could have sworn that a lot of RAM is taken up by system processes, and even some by the Graphics card and CPU. I wanna see the results with this kind of setup or an AMD equivalent both with 16Gigs or more of RAM.

 

[EzioAs]

In my opinion, excessive cooling and stuff is rarely worth it. Air is quiet, efficient, affordable.

That's not necessarily true. You are still using air to cool your components even on liquid cooling system and cooling is one of the few things that are future proof (to a certain extent) much like cases and psus. You can still carry them even for the next few systems (you may have to change a couple things though)

In my opinion, motherboards and RAMs are the things that you could cut corners with. Don't go too extravagant on them like how some people seems to think that sabertooth or maximus boards are the best choice for gaming while they bought a GTX650 and hope to play the latest titles with max settings at 1080p.