System Builder Marathon Q4 2015: $912 AMD LAN Box PC

[bak0n]

It sounds like the next gen Zen is going to incorporate HBM inside their APU's. That will be interesting to see what occurs since HBM really targets 4k gaming, yet APU's tend to struggle with 1080p...

This coming year it'll be interesting to see if AMD can make strides in taking over the gaming value mantle it held for many years.

 

[chlamchowder]

I think the 860K is more competitive against Intel's Pentium CPUs, which are in the same price range and only has two cores without HT. Some games won't even start with less than four cores, which is where the 860K has a real advantage.

For gaming, whether the game is playable might be a better standard. The gaming value conclusion might change if the question is "can it average over 60 fps or 30 fps" rather than "which has a higher framerate". Spending $40-50 to go from 70 fps to over 100 fps on a 60 Hz monitor feels like wasting money, especially if VSYNC is on to stop tearing. And I doubt people with budget builds are going for expensive high refresh rate displays or G-Sync/FreeSync monitors.

In all of the gaming benchmarks except Arma 3 at Ultra settings, the 860K gets over 60 fps at 1080p. Even in Arma 3 ultra it gets >40 fps, which is very playable and better than what current generation consoles often achieve. That's probably why there are 860K fans around - you don't need benchmark wins to play games fluently.

 

[warmon6]

What is up with the high stock voltages on the 860K? When I was thinking of getting one for my secondary test rig, I noted the insane voltages people used both at stock frequencies, and overclocked. I ended up getting a 760K instead, but only because I bought it from a friend who was parting out a rig.

I have that 760K clocked at 4.4ghz with ~1.33 volts, if I remember correctly. It is seated in a Gigabyte FMA88X-UP4, paired with G.skill 2400 DDR3.

With 1.45 volts, I can run it at 4.8ghz and still remain below that throttling threshold. Going beyond requires some serious cooling. (Using a Thermalright Archon SB-E X2.)

That is truthfully a good question for a lot of there newer FM2+ APU/CPU's...

From my testing with my 7850k, These CPU/APU's seem to be great undervolter's while still keeping decent performance.

Here is my system from PC partpicker (although need to add pics for newer hardware): https://pcpartpicker.com/b/PPd6Mp

*And yes i do have an identical motherboard to the one used in this review



Anyways, here is a few settings I been messing with for the last few weeks. (these are with the IGPU disable on my APU)

Stock settings with turbo enable has a voltage of 1.404v. CPU-z http://valid.x86.fr/t86luq

With an overclock of 4.4 GHz, I was able to run undervolted @ 1.38v http://valid.x86.fr/wyjyki

And last with a stock clock of 3.7GHz (no turbo) @ 1.2v http://valid.x86.fr/70a6gm



Now, with the graphics on the APU enable before I grabbed a graphics card, I did have to run a little bit higher voltage to keep the same clocks. (although dont have any screen shots of those.)

Anyways, I've been running mainly on the third option as I prefer a cool and quiet system over a loud and hot system. Also for most of my workloads, I dont really notice to big of a difference between 3.7 and 4.4Ghz (unless im encoding some video on handbrake).

Spoiler

And if you about to ask why i have a 980ti card in this system after looking at PCpartpicker, It's main job for GPU intensive task and some gaming. Mainly F@H.... which loves powerful hardware and cpu isnt that big of a deal for folding when your just folding on the gpu.

 

[Cryio]

What is up with the high stock voltages on the 860K? I have that 760K clocked at 4.4ghz with ~1.33 volts, if I remember correctly. It is seated in a Gigabyte FMA88X-UP4, paired with G.skill 2400 DDR3.

With 1.45 volts, I can run it at 4.8ghz and still remain below that throttling threshold.

Apparently the 860K (and the APUs 7850K and 7870K) are very tough to get to 4.3-4.5 GHz and almost impossible to 4.6+. So it depends which Athlon you want. The 860K is 18% faster than the 760K, clock for clock, due to change from Piledriver to Steamroller.

 

[Cryio]

Personally, I'd never put an 860K (overclocked at that too) on anything faster than a 370/270X/950/960. I said 960 and not 380 because the 960 can handle the limited CPU resources better than the 380. So there's that.

 

[silverblue]

I got an EVGA GTX 950 SC the other day, and it seems to work very nicely with my 860K. I figured that the R7 370 was too slow for minimal cost difference, the 960 is too expensive, and the 380 is more GPU than the 860K can realistically handle in DX11. Additionally, you're right about the CPU load - NVIDIA does a little better here in DX11.

 

[siman0]

mehhh Id do something more on the line of this: see link 1

I like the 380X at its price point, its vary good. This would also be a good computer for low end budget computer or LAN. Lets face it our main rigs is what the focus of the money should be going too. Also this would be ok to plug into the TV and use it for streaming to your TV. I also see a LAN computer as not needing that 1TB drive, since at most we are looking at a handful of games. Also as having built in this case before Id go with the as rock board and cooler master cooler to keep the air moving through the case. (link 3 and 4 have 480GB drives)

If your wanting performance more inline with the 970 Id suggest the 390: link 2

link1: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/8vMx7P
link2: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3X6VjX
1 W/480GB: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/YYjQpg
2 W/480GB: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/pG8kxr

 

[damric]

Eric

In our discussion I think I predicted your outcome. This was a fun read anyways, despite the fact that both the 860K and Haswell i3 are obsolete now that the Skylake i3 is here at a low price and can be base clock overclocked. You need to get your hands on that platform. I'm looking to possibly get one as well, as I love beating the hell out of hardware at this price point.

- damric

 

[RedJaron]

Eric

In our discussion I think I predicted your outcome. This was a fun read anyways, despite the fact that both the 860K and Haswell i3 are obsolete now that the Skylake i3 is here at a low price and can be base clock overclocked. You need to get your hands on that platform. I'm looking to possibly get one as well, as I love beating the hell out of hardware at this price point.

- damric

Yep, as I said at the outset, I didn't think the 860K would be able to pull it out. But I didn't have any hard numbers to fully prove it. Now I do. It's a nice boost over the i3 in terms of integer arithmetic that can use all the cores, but not a whole lot else. Someone on a shoestring budget that can't afford the extra money for an i3 but needs four cores for some newer games will see benefit over the Pentium of course. But if you can at all stretch your budget for an i3, I would at this point.

As for Skylake, yes, I could've used one to embarrass the 860K even more, but I also wanted to give it every reasonable shot at a win. Still no dice.

 

[alextheblue]

The 860K is not well suited for ITX builds. Too hot for such a confined build IMO. It's best in a microATX or larger budget build. Something around $500-600, with space for a decent budget tower cooler, that's about the only time it makes sense. It's also a lot easier to produce better overclocking results with a larger board/tower/cooler. When you're competing against a more expensive processor and yet your final price tag is higher, "you done fudged up, son".

Oh and don't trust ANY reported temps with an 860K (or probably any Kaveri). They're all garbage results. ALL of them, even BIOS numbers are shady as heck. You can however use AMD's Overdrive software and it will give you decently reliable thermal HEADROOM numbers, not temps. But the thermal headroom is all you really need to know where you stand, overclocking-wise.

 

[Amdlova]

Amd as good CPU but in a Small ITX it will fry an egg. A Good old 7790 (260x) can handle the games 1920x1080 fine. My last graphic card is a 670 with Nvidia cooler and it added a lot of temps on my micro building pch about 80ºc and cpu get 10ºc more. its desing blower type but the heat its all around the card. I got here the noctua cp-12se14 stock i5 3470 (105fsb) and 37 locked multiplier about 4.0ghz stock voltage. ITXand m-atx build with high TDP can be a mess.

 

[warmon6]

Amd as good CPU but in a Small ITX it will fry an egg. A Good old 7790 (260x) can handle the games 1920x1080 fine. My last graphic card is a 670 with Nvidia cooler and it added a lot of temps on my micro building pch about 80ºc and cpu get 10ºc more. its desing blower type but the heat its all around the card. I got here the noctua cp-12se14 stock i5 3470 (105fsb) and 37 locked multiplier about 4.0ghz stock voltage. ITXand m-atx build with high TDP can be a mess.

The 860K is not well suited for ITX builds. Too hot for such a confined build IMO. It's best in a microATX or larger budget build. Something around $500-600, with space for a decent budget tower cooler, that's about the only time it makes sense. It's also a lot easier to produce better overclocking results with a larger board/tower/cooler. When you're competing against a more expensive processor and yet your final price tag is higher, "you done fudged up, son".

Oh and don't trust ANY reported temps with an 860K (or probably any Kaveri). They're all garbage results. ALL of them, even BIOS numbers are shady as heck. You can however use AMD's Overdrive software and it will give you decently reliable thermal HEADROOM numbers, not temps. But the thermal headroom is all you really need to know where you stand, overclocking-wise.

I actually have to disagree with both of you about these FM2(+) cpu's/apu not well suit for an ITX system. They're very capable in such system.

Me and a few other people in this very comment section have already mentioned about having a ITX FM2+ system that are doing quiet well with them and i have to say that My A10-7850k probably runs a lot hotter than a AMD Athlon 860k because of that IGPU...


Unlike a ATX build and possibly a mATX (depending on the case), you just cant throw random hardware into an ITX case and expect not to have problems.

Now im not using the world smallest ITX case with the silverstone RVZ01... but being a slim console like case, my cpu coolers choices are extremely limited to 83mm in hight. Thats doesn't leave you with a lot of options... Heck even are some AIO coolers you cant fit into this thing....

That's is certainly way more limiting than this thermaltake case.... but yet, I have really pretty cool temps depending on what voltage/GHz im wanting to run at with the Coolermaster Geminii M4.

Thermal magins dont typically drop below 45C when under full load @3.7GHz and 1.2v. and if i overclock to 4.4GHz with 1.38v, i wont drop below 25c normally under full load (unless it's a really hot day).

and my temps have slightly improved when disabling my IGPU with adding a GPU card (GTX 980ti mainly for folding@home).


Now am I saying that an intel system cant be better in this space? of course not.

Those little buggers can stay really cool and use so little power... It's no contest. Although saying that an AMD system is not
suited for ITX is misleading...

Although if you really want something that's is not suited for ITX system but asrock manage to make it happen anyways...
Maybe you should be looking at the ITX X99 systems.... For processors that have a TDP about 50% more than a 860k/7850k, those under full load kick out way more heat than even my 7850k cpu and igpu running @100%.

PCpartpicker has a few of them and lets just say they're running cool thanks to at least some kind of planing.

 

[koffeeshop77]

My Intel Revision Munchkin blew the original Q3 build out of the water. Can a properly cooler and overclocked Athlon 860K really match a Core i3?

System Builder Marathon Q4 2015: $912 AMD LAN Box PC : Read more

no an AMD cannot blow the core i3 out of the water at least not when properly built.
giving that they where both on a bit of a budget and confinded space,it was prolly about equall, but a real proper system build i3 id no match for amd.

 

[koffeeshop77]

Amd as good CPU but in a Small ITX it will fry an egg. A Good old 7790 (260x) can handle the games 1920x1080 fine. My last graphic card is a 670 with Nvidia cooler and it added a lot of temps on my micro building pch about 80ºc and cpu get 10ºc more. its desing blower type but the heat its all around the card. I got here the noctua cp-12se14 stock i5 3470 (105fsb) and 37 locked multiplier about 4.0ghz stock voltage. ITXand m-atx build with high TDP can be a mess.

The 860K is not well suited for ITX builds. Too hot for such a confined build IMO. It's best in a microATX or larger budget build. Something around $500-600, with space for a decent budget tower cooler, that's about the only time it makes sense. It's also a lot easier to produce better overclocking results with a larger board/tower/cooler. When you're competing against a more expensive processor and yet your final price tag is higher, "you done fudged up, son".

Oh and don't trust ANY reported temps with an 860K (or probably any Kaveri). They're all garbage results. ALL of them, even BIOS numbers are shady as heck. You can however use AMD's Overdrive software and it will give you decently reliable thermal HEADROOM numbers, not temps. But the thermal headroom is all you really need to know where you stand, overclocking-wise.

I actually have to disagree with both of you about these FM2(+) cpu's/apu not well suit for an ITX system. They're very capable in such system.

Me and a few other people in this very comment section have already mentioned about having a ITX FM2+ system that are doing quiet well with them and i have to say that My A10-7850k probably runs a lot hotter than a AMD Athlon 860k because of that IGPU...


Unlike a ATX build and possibly a mATX (depending on the case), you just cant throw random hardware into an ITX case and expect not to have problems.

Now im not using the world smallest ITX case with the silverstone RVZ01... but being a slim console like case, my cpu coolers choices are extremely limited to 83mm in hight. Thats doesn't leave you with a lot of options... Heck even are some AIO coolers you cant fit into this thing....

That's is certainly way more limiting than this thermaltake case.... but yet, I have really pretty cool temps depending on what voltage/GHz im wanting to run at with the Coolermaster Geminii M4.

Thermal magins dont typically drop below 45C when under full load @3.7GHz and 1.2v. and if i overclock to 4.4GHz with 1.38v, i wont drop below 25c normally under full load (unless it's a really hot day).

and my temps have slightly improved when disabling my IGPU with adding a GPU card (GTX 980ti mainly for folding@home).


Now am I saying that an intel system cant be better in this space? of course not.

Those little buggers can stay really cool and use so little power... It's no contest. Although saying that an AMD system is not
suited for ITX is misleading...

Although if you really want something that's is not suited for ITX system but asrock manage to make it happen anyways...
Maybe you should be looking at the ITX X99 systems.... For processors that have a TDP about 50% more than a 860k/7850k, those under full load kick out way more heat than even my 7850k cpu and igpu running @100%.

PCpartpicker has a few of them and lets just say they're running cool thanks to at least some kind of planing.

you can build a 8350 system w/ dedicated ATX and h80 or 55 and have it run fine in a itx or even the new corsair made for ITX systems and have no problems. it would be nice for the living room but not for a system I would like to full time own, but it would definitely beat any FM2+ @ the 4 cores& their provide r7. integrated or not it comes to about the same price cause the A10 7570 (4core)139$ still cost quite a bit so what you save, you gain in cores @ the 6300(6core) for 99$ or 8320(8core) for 129$. and if you put ANYTHING biger in a FM2+ than a r7 then the graichic you paid so dearly for goes out the window anyway. and who is going to cross fire a r7 360 for 106 and cliam killer benchmarks when you can do the same with 750TI and kill it! like a bug? and oc if you want?cause the 750ti oc auto and so do the 6300amds

 

[Onus]

Where have you found a mini-ITX AM3+ board?

 

[RedJaron]

Where have you found a mini-ITX AM3+ board?

Precisely the point many people either don't know or forget. If you want a current-gen AMD ITX system, it's FM2+ or nothing.

 

[warmon6]

you can build a 8350 system w/ dedicated ATX and h80 or 55 and have it run fine in a itx or even the new corsair made for ITX systems and have no problems. it would be nice for the living room but not for a system I would like to full time own, but it would definitely beat any FM2+ @ the 4 cores& their provide r7. integrated or not it comes to about the same price cause the A10 7570 (4core)139$ still cost quite a bit so what you save, you gain in cores @ the 6300(6core) for 99$ or 8320(8core) for 129$. and if you put ANYTHING biger in a FM2+ than a r7 then the graichic you paid so dearly for goes out the window anyway. and who is going to cross fire a r7 360 for 106 and cliam killer benchmarks when you can do the same with 750TI and kill it! like a bug? and oc if you want?cause the 750ti oc auto and so do the 6300amds

Yes, I could have built an 8350/6300 system...... Yes it would have had better price to performance than the A10-7850k... Although you seemed to miss the boat on the ITX systems....

Unless you've spotted an ITX motherboard with an AM3+ socket, you're not going to fit one of those AM3+ cpu's in an ITX case....
(unless you're modding the ITX case to fit a mATX/ATX board (seen it done) but then we're getting into a whole other can of worms).

FM2+ socket is currently the only AMD socket that is on ITX motherboard so the Athlon 860k and the A10-7850k are the top processors you're going to be able to run on these systems.

(Oh I also did have my APU on a H55, but due to space it had to be removed when I added my graphics card in).

 

[Onus]

I had hoped (sort of, I'm not going to buy it) that he'd found an AM3+ mITX board, perhaps from Sapphire or other brand more common in Europe. I'd still worry about heat though, or about VRM problems.

 

[warmon6]

I had hoped (sort of, I'm not going to buy it) that he'd found an AM3+ mITX board, perhaps from Sapphire or other brand more common in Europe. I'd still worry about heat though, or about VRM problems.

I wish there was. although the only non FM1/2(+) board I've found when i did my FM2+ build is an AM3 board (not AM3+) from zotac. https://www.zotac.com/product/mainboards/zotac-880g-itxs-wifi

But sadly, not AM3+ and im not that crazy about zotac when it comes to motherboards.....

 

[koffeeshop77]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor ($146.98 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock 970M PRO3 Micro ATX AM3+/AM3 Motherboard ($72.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Red 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($44.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital WD Blue 500GB 2.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 950 2GB Superclocked+ ACX 2.0 Video Card ($163.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Silverstone SG12B MicroATX Mini Tower Case
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG WH14NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Other: Hydro Series™ H5 SF Low-Profile Liquid CPU Cooler ($79.99)
Total: $775.44
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-05 20:57 EST-0500

 

[koffeeshop77]

cant get the case at new eeg sry

 

[koffeeshop77]

you can build a 8350 system w/ dedicated ATX and h80 or 55 and have it run fine in a itx or even the new corsair made for ITX systems and have no problems. it would be nice for the living room but not for a system I would like to full time own, but it would definitely beat any FM2+ @ the 4 cores& their provide r7. integrated or not it comes to about the same price cause the A10 7570 (4core)139$ still cost quite a bit so what you save, you gain in cores @ the 6300(6core) for 99$ or 8320(8core) for 129$. and if you put ANYTHING biger in a FM2+ than a r7 then the graichic you paid so dearly for goes out the window anyway. and who is going to cross fire a r7 360 for 106 and cliam killer benchmarks when you can do the same with 750TI and kill it! like a bug? and oc if you want?cause the 750ti oc auto and so do the 6300amds

Yes, I could have built an 8350/6300 system...... Yes it would have had better price to performance than the A10-7850k... Although you seemed to miss the boat on the ITX systems....

Unless you've spotted an ITX motherboard with an AM3+ socket, you're not going to fit one of those AM3+ cpu's in an ITX case....
(unless you're modding the ITX case to fit a mATX/ATX board (seen it done) but then we're getting into a whole other can of worms).

FM2+ socket is currently the only AMD socket that is on ITX motherboard so the Athlon 860k and the A10-7850k are the top processors you're going to be able to run on these systems.

(Oh I also did have my APU on a H55, but due to space it had to be removed when I added my graphics card in).

i bet your case isnt much smaller and no modding involved.

 

[RedJaron]

Koffee, so that's a microATX system ( not ITX ) with half the storage and GPU of the original Munchin. Uh huh. And we've already seen what happens to a hot CPU right under the PSU with a 120mm and 80mm intake fans. Now you want to put an even hotter processor in the same position and cut the airflow even more to a single 120mm side fan? AND you're not adhering to SBM rules of only going through Newegg.

So I really have no idea what you're trying to prove here.

 

[warmon6]

i bet your case isnt much smaller and no modding involved.

Er... like RedJaron pointed out. You show a mATX system while we've been talking about a ITX system. Very different standards.

Also my case (Silverstone rvz01) is a bit smaller than the SG12 you linked (in terms of volume). 22.7 liters vs the RVZ01, 14 liters.

SG12 http://silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=540
RVZ01 http://www.silverstonetek.com/raven/products/index.php?model=RVZ01&area=en&top=C

 

[warmon6]

sorry to dispoint, at least you know how to put a person down. should come in handy one day, i dont expect on this forum though, i made a small PC sry i couldnt do better. they did make one ITX board from asus for AM3+ itx it got bough up and was discontinued. enjoy yourselfs im not putting ant more effort into but i do now what i can do with all my extra parts now rather than let them get old. thank you for the challenge

it's not that were trying to put you down but you did come in saying in your first sentence, on your first comment:

you can build a 8350 system w/ dedicated ATX and h80 or 55 and have it run fine in a itx or even the new corsair made for ITX systems

8350.... ITX system.....

Then you shown us mATX systems.....

We're not questioning you on whether you can have a small system with a mATX motherboard.

What were trying to figure out is why you mentioned ITX system with AM3+, show mATX builds, and lastly, your first comment, you linked to my comment that was dominantly talking to the other 2 user who said that the 860k (and indirectly the A10-7850k) was not suited for ITX systems. Where just trying to see what connection your trying to make between all these factors.

About the only connection im seeing is about my comment to what your talking about is the LGA 2011-3 ITX systems i mentioned near the end and how they're truthfully not suited for ITX but it works....

But that not a clear connection for what you've been talking about...