System Builder Marathon, Sept. '09: $650 Gaming PC

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[citation][nom]rebel conquest[/nom]Those are pretty impressive results. Not so much in the synthetics, but the games are amazing for the price.[/citation]

I concur, dual gpu setup really shine IMO and open new possibilities. Like I said many time this summer, two small cards are better than a big one because it gives you more for the money.

Some peoples complain about the lack of the use of the feature on some games, but seriously, these games are generally old and rendered at more than 100 fps with a single card.
 
Nice diplomatic handling of the AMD fans. Unfortunately I don't think they're going to quiet down in the future, tho. They're like the republican tea party folks; given this "success" brought on by complaining, they may just complain louder and more virulently in the future.

At least no Intel salespersons have been hung up in cemeteries yet.
 
[citation][nom]proro1974[/nom]it would be possible to probably do an i5 system for under $650 but there'd be some sacrificesi5-750 - $200Mobo - $120Memory - $70 (4GB. DDR3 or DDR2 is basically the same price now)Videocard - $120 (4870)Case - $50PSU - $70DVD - $30 Cooler - $35 (HDT-S1283)Thats $705. Rebates take out about $20 out of that and IIRC ewiz had the i5-750 for $167 after cashback. Its possible to get it close to $650 but it'd be a lot of squeezing. Probably better to get a Phenom II or Athlon II in that price range. Save $50-100 on the the cpu and spread it to the other components.[/citation]

The second 4850 card will give you much more performance. Also, for a single card setup, the cpu will not render any gain in performances.

The X2 550 is an awesome cpu, easily the best with the X3. It can easily be OC and unlocked to a 4 core cpu that can match the performance of a core i7 920 with a 40$ aftermarket cooler.
 
[citation][nom]tapher[/nom]Nice diplomatic handling of the AMD fans. Unfortunately I don't think they're going to quiet down in the future, tho. They're like the republican tea party folks; given this "success" brought on by complaining, they may just complain louder and more virulently in the future. At least no Intel salespersons have been hung up in cemeteries yet.[/citation]

AMD is gaining momentum recently. I don't think anyone can argue about that. For myself, as a canadian and an electrical engineer, I am proud of ATI success. With the nightmare that was the HD3xxx, I think that some peoples have the right to be happy.

My last purchase was a 8800 GTX OC by BFG and the card before this was an ATI 9800 pro. I can honestly tell you that the 9800 pro was the best card I have purchased to date. My BFG 8800 GTX and my 2 Asus 4850 got their share of problems... but my 9800 pro, never a thing except a noisy fan.
 
X2 550 matching performance of I7-920? Oh my mistake, you meant a stock I7-920 going against a ln2 superoverclocked x2-550. Yeah that might work.
 
It's nice to see the SBM series improving. There was some obvious thought put into the choice of components, which is more than I can say for some previous SBM builds. I also like how the author stated why they didn't upgrade the CPU to a triple core due to availability. Nice job!

I hope the $1,250 and $2,500 builds are as well thought out.
 
@ All: As always, thanks for the comments and discussion. I'll try to catch up on some responses.

I'd also like to ping some feedback from the community on what your first upgrade to this system would have been if your budget was slightly increased. I sure have my running list for each SBM, but am curious to hear yours.

Would it have been on a Phenom II X3 720BE, a PII X4, after market cooler, 1GB HD 4850's, bigger/faster HDD, nicer enclosure, or something else? Thanks
 
[citation][nom]dirtmountain[/nom]People seem to forget that the parts were ordered for the SBM article about 5 weeks ago. In other words no Lynnfield (i'd like to see a $650 i5 system)or AthlonII x4. Paul also stated that the PhenomII x3 710 was out of stock when parts were ordered. By using a standard retailer they show what can be done by regular users (no free items from manufacturers)and since they don't use combo deals or rebates, Joe Average can usually save a bit more when they order.[/citation]
Yes, exactly...those were not available. Thanks for adding this.

Prices and availability change between Tom's order time and when you read the SBM article; nothing we can do about it. But that is why we do not factor combo deals and mail-in-rebates into our buying decisions, as both are likely to expire by the time the article is live.
 
[citation][nom]r0x0r[/nom]Can I enter the competition if I live outside of the United States?[/citation]
The official announcement will spell out the rules, but the first SBM contest was limited to the USA and Canada. Canadians took home two of the three systems.
 
[citation][nom]proro1974[/nom]it would be possible to probably do an i5 system for under $650 but there'd be some sacrificesi5-750 - $200Mobo - $120Memory - $70 (4GB. DDR3 or DDR2 is basically the same price now)Videocard - $120 (4870)Case - $50PSU - $70DVD - $30 Cooler - $35 (HDT-S1283)Thats $705. Rebates take out about $20 out of that and IIRC ewiz had the i5-750 for $167 after cashback. Its possible to get it close to $650 but it'd be a lot of squeezing. Probably better to get a Phenom II or Athlon II in that price range. Save $50-100 on the the cpu and spread it to the other components.[/citation]
If I'm not mistaken, you're missing the HDD, right?

Core i5 wasn't available for this round, but I think it would be better suited for the mid-priced enthusiast PC. Unless we drop the traditional "Gaming" name from the lowest budget system, I don't think i5 will allow enough GPU anytime soon. It's something to aim for anyway.
 
[citation][nom]pauldh[/nom]...I'd also like to ping some feedback from the community on what your first upgrade to this system would have been if your budget was slightly increased...[/citation]
I play games, but nothing so recent or demanding that I think I'd need to Crossfire two HD4850s. I'd use just one, or possibly a single 4870. Then, I'd get a 720BE. Having seen the stock cooler that comes with it, I'd use some of the money remaining on a decent cooler (i.e. -2x4850, +1x4870, +CPU upgrade to 720BE, +CPU cooler).
 
[citation][nom]Kl2amer[/nom]Price of intel chips that are faster:E5200 $67.99E5300 $69.99E6300 $82.99E5400 $89.99E6500 $92.99SBM reviews were always about best for the price at the time. AMD is not best for the price at the time right now. I know Tom's felt like they had to satisfy the AMD fanboys, but it's funny how all the comments are about how great this system is when in reality Intel has 5 chips cheaper that will out perform. Maybe this wasn't the best time to showcase dual graphics at this level and reduce overall price a little or was it planned to give AMD at least some kind of chance.[/citation]
It's should be no surprise I have liked the E5200 (5300) at this budget and have wanted to fit a crossfire solution in with one for many months. Last month's "portable" theme killed that hope, and before that it was always just out of reach. We likely could have squeezed e5300 + nice air cooler into this budget (depending on mobo cost)and at 4.0GHz dominated the majority of the OC results.

But, it's a trade off as such a system would once again fall far short at stock clocks. Stock you want this one, OC either does a pretty impressive job for the money.

We listen, and aim to serve the readers and so decided the Phenom II's deserved a good look. The decision to put in 4850's was basically because I was thrilled we finally could. Making any company look good (or bad) is not a part of our decision process.
 
[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]I play games, but nothing so recent or demanding that I think I'd need to Crossfire two HD4850s. I'd use just one, or possibly a single 4870. Then, I'd get a 720BE. Having seen the stock cooler that comes with it, I'd use some of the money remaining on a decent cooler (i.e. -2x4850, +1x4870, +CPU upgrade to 720BE, +CPU cooler).[/citation]
Thanks for sharing jtt283. With a single 4870 512MB (or 1GB for high res) that sounds like a nice system. Are you satisfied with the HDD and case or would you put remaining budget (if any) into an upgrade in that area?
 
[citation][nom]Kl2amer[/nom]Price of intel chips that are faster:E5200 $67.99E5300 $69.99E6300 $82.99E5400 $89.99E6500 $92.99SBM reviews were always about best for the price at the time. AMD is not best for the price at the time right now. I know Tom's felt like they had to satisfy the AMD fanboys, but it's funny how all the comments are about how great this system is when in reality Intel has 5 chips cheaper that will out perform. Maybe this wasn't the best time to showcase dual graphics at this level and reduce overall price a little or was it planned to give AMD at least some kind of chance.[/citation]

It's funny how fanboys of one product try to put down fanboys of another products. You are both fanboys...no one is better than the other.

Anyway, I'm curious to know how you deduced that those chips were ALL faster than the X2 550 BE. I checked a couple of benchmarks and it seems that the E6300 and E6500 do compete, but with the other more often than not the 550 BE wins. I you are misinterperting the author for you own fanboyish pleasure (does that just sound wrong to anyone else?). I think what the author is saying is that the E5200 can compete with the X2 550 (which is true), but more often than not the X2 550 will win. That does not mean it's faster. But here, I like to look it facts, so let's look at benchies:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+X2+550
 
"A 204 MHz reference clocked failed stability testing, leaving us a maximum CPU core speed of 3.654 GHz (200 * 203) at 1.35V"

3.654 GHz (200 * 203)???
 
[citation][nom]Abegnale[/nom]"A 204 MHz reference clocked failed stability testing, leaving us a maximum CPU core speed of 3.654 GHz (200 * 203) at 1.35V"3.654 GHz (200 * 203)???[/citation]
Thanks for the catch; will get that corrected to (18 x 203)
 
[citation][nom]pauldh[/nom]Thanks for sharing jtt283. With a single 4870 512MB (or 1GB for high res) that sounds like a nice system. Are you satisfied with the HDD and case or would you put remaining budget (if any) into an upgrade in that area?[/citation]
I have found the cheap Rosewill cases satisfactory, although if there were some left, I might check out the Antec 200 because of the front slot-loading hard drive bay. I'd probably use that to back things up.
As to the hard drive, although I didn't notice initially when I read the article (and maybe it wasn't yet available at this price), a Samsung Spinpoint F3 would be cheaper by $8, and supposedly faster.
 
I don't believe the F3 was available at the time, but if so it definitely was not cheaper. At $57, the WD Blue was (at the time) the cheapest 500GB with 16MB cache. The recent price spike was unfortunate timing.
 
[citation][nom]ofirhadad[/nom]For that price you could put AMD Phenom 9650 instead. Is much stronger.[/citation]
Stronger in what? Some of the multi-threaded aps, sure... quite possible. But it would be a less potent gamer and handed other big losses too. At a higher cost, and an OC capped at probably 3.3GHz, I sure can't recommend a power hungry Phenom X4 over a PII for this gaming rig.
 
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