Question System with ryzen 1600 or 2600

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Spankymcbob1

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Trying to figure out if it's worth the extra $40 difference between these two processors. It's just gonna be my 2nd machine which will be an itx build with a gtx 1050 ti or an rx 480. Just mostly gonna use it for gaming and maybe some light vm work. Then I'll probably end up selling it in 3-6 months once I get sick of it. Let me know which one is probably a better deal.
 

rigg42

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If you're in the US, or UK, then the price difference isn't even 40 bucks, it's more like 26.50. Even at 40 bucks it's probably worth it. At less than 30 dollars, it's definitely worth it.

It's currently a $60 difference at Micro Center and has been for months. A 2600 comes with a stealth cooler rather than the much better wraith cooler like the 1600 does. Which means if you can type 2 numbers into the bios the 1600 is equal if not better on stock coolers. Even if it's only a $26.50 difference it's still not any better without spending another $30 or more on a good cooler. Not that it really makes a difference with a 1050 ti/ rx 480 anyway.
 

rigg42

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The 2600 has better memory compatibility and isn't as adversely affected by memory/fabric clock frequency as the first-gen chips. Probably eats most of the 1600's stock cooler OC advantage.
I've built 8 complete 1st gen Ryzen systems in the last 6 months. I've post tested even more. Every one of them has posted 1st try and run flawlessly with the xmp loaded. This is with all different 2666 -3200 memory kits from various suppliers. G-Skill, Corsair, ADATA, Geil, you name it. I used all 4 of the big name mobo brands as well. In fact I stuck a 3600 b-die kit in with a R5 1600 loaded ROG Strix B450i yesterday and it worked perfectly out of the box with XMP on the latest bios. This is by in large a non issue with current boards and bios'. I think the hoopla about the IMC is overblown and it's all about the motherboard manufactures getting the bios where it needs to be. I haven't even had any issue with 300 series boards. 4 of those 8 systems used the older boards.

3000 and 3200 kits are dirt cheap right now so I think the second point is also moot. I wouldn't buy slower kits for either generation at this point in time.
 

Darkbreeze

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That's great that you have, but I assure you, there are a GREAT MANY more who it has not turned out that way for, here alone, over the last 12 months or so. So I agree, the BIOS updates have helped a great deal, but there are still issues that remain in some cases on some systems and especially on early BIOS versions.

AMD has said themselves that there are IMC issues, which is EXACTLY WHY they have a well advertised AMD approved memory list for Ryzen. SO yeah, it's been neither overblown nor completely fixed. It has however, greatly improved.

Mostly due to newer chipsets, newer CPU models and BIOS updates, but not everybody has the luxury or willingness to do what needs to be done, and in some cases it doesn't even matter if they can't POST, they can't update the BIOS anyhow. Hardly see that now, but still see it here and there.

It's currently a $60 difference at Micro Center and has been for months. A 2600 comes with a stealth cooler rather than the much better wraith cooler like the 1600 does. Which means if you can type 2 numbers into the bios the 1600 is equal if not better on stock coolers. Even if it's only a $26.50 difference it's still not any better without spending another $30 or more on a good cooler. Not that it really makes a difference with a 1050 ti/ rx 480 anyway.
That, is the biggest crock of (insert word of your choosing here) I've heard, at least today.

You don't need a different cooler to make the 2600 worthwhile over the 1600. Sure, if you WANT the Wraith or Spire rather than the Stealth, then it's going to cost more, but it's not essential in any case. Not for stock operations.

Not sure what your specific issue is with others being in favor of second Gen Ryzen over first Gen, but there are distinct advantages aside from anything that has to do with manual overclocking. Stock for stock, they are better processors. Period. I don't care if you've assemble four hundred Ryzen systems recently, it doesn't change that fact.

It may only be a few FPS (But in some titles as much as 18-20fps)

https://www.techspot.com/review/1614-ryzen-2600/page3.html

or a few seconds difference in productivity benchmarks (But in some applications as much as 14 or more seconds per operation)

https://www.techspot.com/review/1614-ryzen-2600/page2.html

but the difference in performance exists and is measurable. People spend a LOT more than 26 bucks trying to gain an additional 18-20fps on upgrades, all the time, so the minor premium doesn't seem very extravagant to me.

And as far as the price, the 1600 is currently 118.89 at Outlet PC.

https://www.outletpc.com/ay9499-amd-ryzen-5-1600-6core-32-ghz-36-ghz-turbo-socket.html?utm_source=ay9499-amd-ryzen-5-1600-6core-32-ghz-36-ghz-turbo-socket&utm_medium=shopping+engine&utm_campaign=pcpartpicker&utm_content=AMD+-+CPUs (Processors) > AMD AM4+&sscid=51k3_hslvu


And it's 149.89 there as well.

https://www.outletpc.com/za0071-amd-ryzen-5-2600-6-core-yd2600bbafbox-processor.html?utm_source=za0071-amd-ryzen-5-2600-6-core-yd2600bbafbox-processor&utm_medium=shopping+engine&utm_campaign=pcpartpicker&utm_content=AMD+-+CPUs (Processors) > AMD AM4+&sscid=51k3_hsmkg


So that's a 31 dollar difference. Yesterday it was 26 bucks. Tomorrow it might be 14. Who knows.

BTW, IE is a memory engineer. He's forgotten more about memory and memory configurations than you or I will EVER know. I wouldn't go there unless you want to be seriously shamed by your (Our) lack of knowledge in that area. I'm fairly well versed compared to the average enthusiast, but it's not even a fair competition against him. I'd bow out early if it were me.
 

rigg42

Upstanding
Oct 17, 2018
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That's great that you have, but I assure you, there are a GREAT MANY more who it has not turned out that way for, here alone, over the last 12 months or so. So I agree, the BIOS updates have helped a great deal, but there are still issues that remain in some cases on some systems and especially on early BIOS versions.

AMD has said themselves that there are IMC issues, which is EXACTLY WHY they have a well advertised AMD approved memory list for Ryzen. SO yeah, it's been neither overblown nor completely fixed. It has however, greatly improved.

Mostly due to newer chipsets, newer CPU models and BIOS updates, but not everybody has the luxury or willingness to do what needs to be done, and in some cases it doesn't even matter if they can't POST, they can't update the BIOS anyhow. Hardly see that now, but still see it here and there.
Fair enough. Maybe I'm a bit biased by my anecdotal experience but it's hard to deny that the memory compatibility issues aren't that big of a deal in general with the 400 series boards at least. I'm sure some will still have issues and it's a good thing to be aware of it regardless. It's not like it's hard to return or re-sell a memory kit.



That, is the biggest crock of (insert word of your choosing here) I've heard, at least today.

You don't need a different cooler to make the 2600 worthwhile over the 1600. Sure, if you WANT the Wraith or Spire rather than the Stealth, then it's going to cost more, but it's not essential in any case. Not for stock operations.

Not sure what your specific issue is with others being in favor of second Gen Ryzen over first Gen, but there are distinct advantages aside from anything that has to do with manual overclocking. Stock for stock, they are better processors. Period. I don't care if you've assemble four hundred Ryzen systems recently, it doesn't change that fact.

It may only be a few FPS (But in some titles as much as 18-20fps)

https://www.techspot.com/review/1614-ryzen-2600/page3.html

or a few seconds difference in productivity benchmarks (But in some applications as much as 14 or more seconds per operation)

https://www.techspot.com/review/1614-ryzen-2600/page2.html

but the difference in performance exists and is measurable. People spend a LOT more than 26 bucks trying to gain an additional 18-20fps on upgrades, all the time, so the minor premium doesn't seem very extravagant to me.

And as far as the price, the 1600 is currently 118.89 at Outlet PC.

https://www.outletpc.com/ay9499-amd-ryzen-5-1600-6core-32-ghz-36-ghz-turbo-socket.html?utm_source=ay9499-amd-ryzen-5-1600-6core-32-ghz-36-ghz-turbo-socket&utm_medium=shopping+engine&utm_campaign=pcpartpicker&utm_content=AMD+-+CPUs (Processors) > AMD AM4+&sscid=51k3_hslvu


And it's 149.89 there as well.

https://www.outletpc.com/za0071-amd-ryzen-5-2600-6-core-yd2600bbafbox-processor.html?utm_source=za0071-amd-ryzen-5-2600-6-core-yd2600bbafbox-processor&utm_medium=shopping+engine&utm_campaign=pcpartpicker&utm_content=AMD+-+CPUs (Processors) > AMD AM4+&sscid=51k3_hsmkg


So that's a 31 dollar difference. Yesterday it was 26 bucks. Tomorrow it might be 14. Who knows.
Stock for stock yes the 2600 wins. But you're basically stuck at stock with the stealth. Overclocked (with the extreme example of a 1080 ti at medium settings at 1080p) the 1600 is still pretty much on par with the stock 2600. Any differences are non existent with practical settings and GPU selection. If we're being real yeah for $30 who gives an (insert word of your choosing here). Well I don't but the OP might since he started the thread asking if it was worth the $40 difference in a PC used primarily for gaming. You won't see any practical advantage without a much more expensive GPU and a better cooler. If you need to point to outlier examples with a GPU that costs 5x as much running at 1080p medium than I've already won the argument. My point is still valid and is far from crock of (insert word of your choosing here). Especially if running a gaming setup like the OP is looking at. Anyone running a rx 480 or a 1050ti and quite a large stack of GPU's above that will see 0 advantage. Even at stock. Anyone reading this that has a Micro Center the $60 difference is undeniably a win for the 1600 100% of the time. There is no productivity benchmarks in your example with an overclocked 1600 and the OP indicated nothing that makes this argument relevant to him anyway.

BTW, IE is a memory engineer. He's forgotten more about memory and memory configurations than you or I will EVER know. I wouldn't go there unless you want to be seriously shamed by your (Our) lack of knowledge in that area. I'm fairly well versed compared to the average enthusiast, but it's not even a fair competition against him. I'd bow out early if it were me.
I wasn't even really disagreeing with him. His points are completely valid. They're just mostly theoretical with this type of gaming PC in my experience. That was the point I was trying to make. Maybe I came off too strong? I have no doubt he and many others around here have forgotten more about memory configs than I'll ever know. I was simply pointing out that my significant personal anecdotal experience points to the compatibility concern being mostly an issue of the past. I guess I did probably breeze over the memory speed/latency argument a bit dismissively. Either way I meant no offense and apologize to IE if I came off as disrespectful.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
It did seem like you were leaning that way a bit. I can't disagree with SOME of your arguments. I just can't. But, you have to remember that not everybody, in fact not MOST people, who come here, are like us, in that they don't usually want to overclock or if they do they want it to be a one click simple process which I never recommend anyhow.

Mostly, they just want whatever it can do out of the box and don't want to have to really do much more than just set a few settings like the XMP profile and be done with it. And the fact is, that with Ryzen especially, the 2nd Gen products and chipsets are going to be a lot better for those type of people. For somebody willing to take a chip to it's best OC, and tune the rest of the system, then it might be worth the few bucks saved going with Gen 1 but even so, I wouldn't, because if I WAS going to do all those things, I'd get better results doing it with 2nd Gen hardware. Granted, you'll need a better cooler, but if you are going to overclock, ANYTHING, I don't care if it's a P4, you need a better cooler than what anything comes stock with. A Deepcool Gammaxx 400 at the very least, for ANY overclocked quad or higher core CPU, IMO. The AMD stock coolers are definitely a cut above, for a stock cooler, but I'm not recommending them as a permanent solution to anybody who wants to really do this and is willing to do the work.

It would be a waste of their time and mine to go through all that just to have a marginally limited thermal ceiling due to a lack of truly decent cooling. Do it, or do it not, but don't do it halfway.
 
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rigg42

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I hear you. Getting a 1600 to 3.8ghz 24-7 stable with 100% load temps in the low 70's is usually as easy as typing a 38 into the multiplier though. If you can put in an XMP profile you can overclock a 1600 to 3.8ghz on the wraith spire. I just find it frustrating that people are so often dismissive of this. I don't even dislike the 2600 or think they're a bad value. It just seems that people are way to quick to recommend the 2600 when the 1600 will give the exact same performance in many situations. For considerably less money in some cases. That $30 - $60 could be a big difference for a lot of people working on a tight budget. That's money that could go toward a better PSU, Memory, SSD, Case, fans, ext. These parts add up. Trust me I know all to well.

Sure if you want to go all out and buy a half decent cooler the 2600/2700 are great overclockers too. I wouldn't even bother with the 1600 and an aftermarket cooler. This is kind of the crux of my argument.

Again, I apologize if I sometimes come off as disrespectful. I' tend to be a bit blunt and don't always have/use the best writing skills.
 

Spankymcbob1

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I ended up going with the 2600.

But thanks to everyone who tried correcting me on the price more than helping me. At the time that I posted this amazon had the 1600 for 119 and the 2600 for 169.

Thanks for reminding me not to use this forum again.
 
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