News Taiwan accuses China of 'cheating' and 'stealing' semiconductor process technologies

[Admin]

Taiwan accuses China of unfair behavior with obtaining advanced technology, China denies any wrongdoing.

Taiwan accuses China of 'cheating' and 'stealing' semiconductor process technologies : Read more

 

[hotaru251]

i mean.....shocking to nobody on both sides. (if true or not)

 

[peachpuff]

 

[atomicWAR]

No surprises here, true or not...

 

[brandonjclark]

Define If as Story
If(big)=TRUE

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Breaking News: The sky is Blue! (If true)

 

[d0x360]

i mean.....shocking to nobody on both sides. (if true or not)

Of course it's true. China has proven time after time they can't innovate and invent they can only steal and iterate.

It's a symptom of the largest problem that they have... Communism and the need to produce results quickly and cheap or be replaced... Often violently

 

[_Shatta_AD_]

Whether it’s true or not, I’m not aware that poaching employees from another company is illegal nor is it not practiced elsewhere including in America. The way this so called ‘diplomat’ made it sound, it’s a crime to do so. Just to reveal the lengths people would go to fabricate negative sentimental accusations out of spite or to use a poor reputation to keep another country in the mud and applying judgement en-mass.
Yes, there’re no doubt there are few mal-practices within certain Chinese companies but there’s absolutely no way they could get where they are without innovation or skills AND people should definitely not readily accuse ANY/ALL companies from China as copying or stealing, especially when doing so without proof or simply pointing to a few odd cases/questionable sources as proof.
Again this ‘diplomat’ despises China(he’s from Taiwan), he does NOT work for TSMC and he’s definitely a politician, so his words are politically motivated at best.

 

[bit_user]

This had an air of inevitability to it...

SMIC hires specialists from TSMC and Samsung Foundry to develop them in-house these days.

This is not news, but I guess their public airing of it is.

BTW, if anyone remembers why it is that motherboards and GPUs still frequently advertise their use of "Japanese capacitors", I'd have to say: what goes around comes around. Once upon a time, Taiwan was the capital of cheap, knockoff products.

 

[bit_user]

I’m not aware that poaching employees from another company is illegal nor is it not practiced elsewhere including in America.

Many companies will force you to sign a "non-compete" agreement, when you join. In a few states, most notably California, such contracts have been made illegal.

Even if you're not subject to a non-compete agreement, you're still subject to any non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) you signed with former employers. Furthermore, misuse of "trade secret" IP is very much subject to litigation. While such IP theft or misappropriation is hard to prove, that's different than saying there are no legal protections in place against it.

 

[ivan_vy]

Whether it’s true or not, I’m not aware that poaching employees from another company is illegal nor is it not practiced elsewhere including in America. The way this so called ‘diplomat’ made it sound, it’s a crime to do so. Just to reveal the lengths people would go to fabricate negative sentimental accusations out of spite or to use a poor reputation to keep another country in the mud and applying judgement en-mass.
Yes, there’re no doubt there are few mal-practices within certain Chinese companies but there’s absolutely no way they could get where they are without innovation or skills AND people should definitely not readily accuse ANY/ALL companies from China as copying or stealing, especially when doing so without proof or simply pointing to a few odd cases/questionable sources as proof.
Again this ‘diplomat’ despises China(he’s from Taiwan), he does NOT work for TSMC and he’s definitely a politician, so his words are politically motivated at best.

we need critical thinking, obvious taiwanese politician despise China and it's a 'not so veiled' cry for help to USA, 'we are irreplaceable, help us', yes, it needs a grain of truth to be believable but the burden of the proof relies on the accuser.
Stealing and further developing need some technological and intellectual capacity, are we just gonna think China is the dumb thief and the technological threat at the same time?

 

[ivan_vy]

This had an air of inevitability to it...


This is not news, but I guess their public airing of it is.

BTW, if anyone remembers why it is that motherboards and GPUs still frequently advertise their use of "Japanese capacitors", I'd have to say: what goes around comes around. Once upon a time, Taiwan was the capital of cheap, knockoff products.

Taiwan learned to make things better, China is learning now.
IMHO crippling was not the way to go, better keep them dependent, now the might create a whole new branch US can just only speculate, this is just fueling xenophobia and might trace a path of unwanted confrontation.

 

[z0d]

Sadly Taiwan can do nothing even if it's all true.

 

[bit_user]

are we just gonna think China is the dumb thief and the technological threat at the same time?

Nobody said China can't eventually catch up, just like Taiwan did. The concern is if they're accelerating that process through illegitimate means. For the economic system to work optimally, participants need to play by the rules. That's what this is about.

IMHO crippling was not the way to go, better keep them dependent,

China was always on a path to become independent. Not only for their own security, but also because they aim to compete in all major industries.

Hence, "keeping them dependent" was never a realistic, long-term option, even if that's what we'd wanted to do.

 

[ivan_vy]

Nobody said China can't eventually catch up, just like Taiwan did. The concern is if they're accelerating that process through illegitimate means. For the economic system to work optimally, participants need to play by the rules. That's what this is about.


China was always on a path to become independent. Not only for their own security, but also because they aim to compete in all major industries.

Hence, "keeping the dependent" was never a realistic, long-term option, even if that's what we'd wanted to do.

I agree.

 

[Yoinksss]

"They do not really follow the rules," Yui told Reuters. "They cheat and they copy, etc. They steal technology." Yui said

Ex-CIA director Pompeo: 'We lied, we cheated, we stole'

 

[bit_user]

Ex-CIA director Pompeo: 'We lied, we cheated, we stole'

What's the context? Was he talking about doing this within a market economy? If so, then there are questions about the nature & magnitude, so as not to draw a false equivalence. If not, then I'd say it's whataboutism.

 

[xterx1234]

Of course it's true. China has proven time after time they can't innovate and invent they can only steal and iterate.

It's a symptom of the largest problem that they have... Communism and the need to produce results quickly and cheap or be replaced... Often violently

Nope, they can innovate. Even thou this statement article would be true or not, Chinese have develop their own things and that is why they are applying for patents. One thing that I am thinking, maybe the Chinese are stealing technolgy and improving it and then later create a new product based on that improved stolen product, it is immoral but at least it could get the job done, and hey, americans also did that and america was once a tech pirate itself.

 

[Yoinksss]

What's the context? Was he talking about doing this within a market economy? If so, then there are questions about the nature & magnitude, so as not to draw a false equivalence. If not, then I'd say it's whataboutism.

"What's the context?" That's a good question. I put those 2 quotes out there hoping someone can find the answer. Whataboutism is perfect.

 

[ivan_vy]

Nope, they can innovate. Even thou this statement article would be true or not, Chinese have develop their own things and that is why they are applying for patents. One thing that I am thinking, maybe the Chinese are stealing technolgy and improving it and then later create a new product based on that improved stolen product, it is immoral but at least it could get the job done, and hey, americans also did that and america was once a tech pirate itself.

Operation Paperclip comes to mind.

 

[SkyHighest]

Of course it's true. China has proven time after time they can't innovate and invent they can only steal and iterate.

It's a symptom of the largest problem that they have... Communism and the need to produce results quickly and cheap or be replaced... Often violently

Considering China is technologically more advanced than anyone else is some fields means that China is completely capable of innovating.

You are seriously trying to suggest that an entrie country of 1.4 B people are all incapable of innovating. That's xenophobia.

During the Industrial Revolution America passed laws protecting anyone who stole technology from Britian. That was capitalism happening.

You don't know what communism is (something China isn't and is very open that they arent) and just repeat propaganda.

 

[SkyHighest]

Nobody said China can't eventually catch up, just like Taiwan did. The concern is if they're accelerating that process through illegitimate means. For the economic system to work optimally, participants need to play by the rules. That's what this is about.


China was always on a path to become independent. Not only for their own security, but also because they aim to compete in all major industries.

Hence, "keeping them dependent" was never a realistic, long-term option, even if that's what we'd wanted to do.

A little history. During the Industrial Revolution USA passed laws protecting anyone coming from England that was stealing technology. USA built went through its industrial revolution through illegitimate means. It's odd to now claim others can't also do the same.

Speaking on the economic system operating optimally, shouldn't we be seeing these poaching of engineers as more of a response to USA doing whatever they can to keep China from technologically advancing with concerning compute power?

I would argue that for an economic system to actually work optimally, all would stop trying to keep others from developing and that would require collaboration instead of competition.

 

[bit_user]

A little history. During the Industrial Revolution USA passed laws protecting anyone coming from England that was stealing technology. USA built went through its industrial revolution through illegitimate means. It's odd to now claim others can't also do the same.

Even if that were true, you can't justify sins in the present day on such ancient history. Otherwise, the cycle of wars, crimes, and all other manner of social ills would never cease.

What we aspire to have is a market system that's fair. And there's so much knowledge, science, and technology that's freely or readily available to help countries and their people develop. Plus, we can look at numerous other countries who developed the right way, including the very country which now leads the world in producing lithography equipment that was turned into a smoldering heap of rubble by World War II.

For that matter, look how far Japan has come in that time. Are you saying the only way China, a country 10x its size, can become competitive is by underhanded means? How dare you underestimate and undersell the Chinese people!

USA doing whatever they can to keep China from technologically advancing with concerning compute power?

That's not really what's going on, here.

I would argue that for an economic system to actually work optimally, all would stop trying to keep others from developing and that would require collaboration instead of competition.

Competition isn't a problem, as long as it's fair.

 

[SkyHighest]

Even if that were true, you can't justify sins in the present day on such ancient history. Otherwise, the cycle of wars, crimes, and all other manner of social ills would never cease.

What we aspire to have is a market system that's fair. And there's so much knowledge, science, and technology that's freely or readily available to help countries and their people develop. Plus, we can look at numerous other countries who developed the right way, including the very country which now leads the world in producing lithography equipment that was turned into a smoldering heap of rubble by World War II.

For that matter, look how far Japan has come in that time. Are you saying the only way China, a country 10x its size, can become competitive is by underhanded means? How dare you underestimate and undersell the Chinese people!


That's not really what's going on, here.


Competition isn't a problem, as long as it's fair.

"Theft" of knowledge is a far cry from war. Thrt arent comparable at all. We should never excuse war by saying other nations did it in the past. Thankfully war and "theft" of knowledge are very different and one kills a bunch of people and the other allows others to prosper better.

If a nation is able to build themselves into the most powerful nation on earth (USA) through the theft of knowledge from the English than that nation has no place telling others they should play fair. Let's also not forget the USA had a very unfair advantage of having killed off almost all the natives to steal their barely resource extracted land. An advantage no other nation has really had. I'm getting off topic though.

I would also like to point out that every nation and major corporation all participate in corporate espionage. This is caused by competition. Competition does not lead to people acting fairly. For example, look how many athletes take performance enhancing drugs.

You may aspire to have a market system that's fair, but the capitalists do not, and they are the ones that have the most control over our socio-economic system. Competition does not lead to fair play.

Now let's talk about China. They clearly are very innovative with high-speed rail development. No on can claim all they did was steal technology. So you can drop the crap about me underestimating the Chinese people. I don't.

Considering USA has been doing everything it can to stop China from being able to buy the newest lithography tools while also banning the shipment of the most advanced GPU's to China, how can you claim USA is doing all it can to keep China from technologically developing?

USA does this because they do not want a fair market system. They want to be the ones to control it, and they largely do.

Lastly, China is not 10x the size of USA. It's about 4.5 times larger than USA population size but maybe you're talking about Taiwan.

 

[jasonf2]

Even if that were true, you can't justify sins in the present day on such ancient history. Otherwise, the cycle of wars, crimes, and all other manner of social ills would never cease.

What we aspire to have is a market system that's fair. And there's so much knowledge, science, and technology that's freely or readily available to help countries and their people develop. Plus, we can look at numerous other countries who developed the right way, including the very country which now leads the world in producing lithography equipment that was turned into a smoldering heap of rubble by World War II.

For that matter, look how far Japan has come in that time. Are you saying the only way China, a country 10x its size, can become competitive is by underhanded means? How dare you underestimate and undersell the Chinese people!


That's not really what's going on, here.


Competition isn't a problem, as long as it's fair.

I think it is also important not to overlook the current military tensions that exist in the Asian Pacific rim. China's political backtrack on the "One country two systems" mess coupled with the continued military invasion exercises directed at Taiwan should have everyone a little on edge. Especially when it comes to technologies that could be used for weapons (which is just about any electronics these days). We shouldn't forget that the US has a standing Taiwan protection act in place and aggression in that region could literally spark world war three. Regardless if this particular story is true or not China doesn't really have a stellar record when it comes to respecting international patent law or industrial espionage. It also goes without saying that ideologically China is a frenemy with the west at best tied only by their export needs and the west's rampant consumerism. With said why would it not be in the West's best interests to heavily regulate potentially weaponized tech and for that fact if China is in fact stealing IP from other countries to sidestep that regulation not further sanction China for doing so? This is regardless if they are openly doing it by industrial espionage or importing key personnel and poaching the IP in that manner? I would hardly consider this to be xenophobic but rather necessary international politics. If China wants open information sharing with the west it cannot continue posturing to undermine the standing world order by military force.