News Taiwan's government strengthens 'silicon shield,' restricts exports of TSMC's most advanced process technologies

[RADIO AND RADIO]

That indeed is not attractive to a lot of Asian, lifestyle is different, the requirement to tidy the garden, the convinenance of buying stuffs or getting to restaurants, cost of fiber internet (much, much cheaper for high rise than in a house), so on and so forth. 1,500 square feet is plenty for a family already, and things like Phoenix can flood the whole city in a hurricane and ruin your cars, house etc can also be a factor.

And speaking for medical care you have to be too young and naive to not even consider those. Once every 20 years of life saving medical care could be a bit factor, you cannot regret when you didn't get the chance to have the essentially free medical care. And for middle aged middle class, those are legit concerns. Sure you can still be very confident, that's your personal believe.

I just stated that as an Asian what a lot of us think about ever migrating to USA, a few great engineer? Sure individuals could think the house and social welfare in Phoenix is better and decided to pull the trigger, but enough skilled employees to essentially make moving the whole TSMC to USA and ditch Taiwan as a whole? It's easier to day dream, the bottom workforce who can't remotely afford the apartment or house is the ones who can make it work (And why Huawei pulling a few high ranked TSMC ex employee failed to make a TSMC in China). In order to make that happen, the cost to persuade all those employees to bring their family to go to USA will be astronomical, while currently TSMC cost like... I forgot, something like $20,000 a wafer? moving whole to USA will easily jack the cost up to $50,000 or more if you want the same yeild, O, and remember to lower the working hour etc. limitations and the guilds.

According to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait model, Taiwan would need to resist alone for half a year, waiting for reinforcements to arrive and sharing the support costs.

 

[Sulio]

This is not surprising. Working on their ramp of the first fab, this appears to be their status quo. They would end up delaying every task possible to source products and labor from Taiwan, when it could have just been purchased 5 miles away instead (saw this a lot with the steamfitters and electricians). They claimed American workers were incompetent by purposely not providing proper engineering documentation for the tasks at hand so they could import labor. They want to keep as much of their profits in Taiwan, with a 100% Taiwan first mentality, and this is just the next logical step.

 

[Constellar]

That indeed is not attractive to a lot of Asian, lifestyle is different, the requirement to tidy the garden, the convinenance of buying stuffs or getting to restaurants, cost of fiber internet (much, much cheaper for high rise than in a house), so on and so forth. 1,500 square feet is plenty for a family already, and things like Phoenix can flood the whole city in a hurricane and ruin your cars, house etc can also be a factor.

And speaking for medical care you have to be too young and naive to not even consider those. Once every 20 years of life saving medical care could be a bit factor, you cannot regret when you didn't get the chance to have the essentially free medical care. And for middle aged middle class, those are legit concerns. Sure you can still be very confident, that's your personal believe.

I just stated that as an Asian what a lot of us think about ever migrating to USA, a few great engineer? Sure individuals could think the house and social welfare in Phoenix is better and decided to pull the trigger, but enough skilled employees to essentially make moving the whole TSMC to USA and ditch Taiwan as a whole? It's easier to day dream, the bottom workforce who can't remotely afford the apartment or house is the ones who can make it work (And why Huawei pulling a few high ranked TSMC ex employee failed to make a TSMC in China). In order to make that happen, the cost to persuade all those employees to bring their family to go to USA will be astronomical, while currently TSMC cost like... I forgot, something like $20,000 a wafer? moving whole to USA will easily jack the cost up to $50,000 or more if you want the same yeild, O, and remember to lower the working hour etc. limitations and the guilds.

So what you're saying is that the "Asian lifestyle" is one of settling for more poverty, cramped living spaces with zero luxury, cheap furniture and cheaper Internet? That's not the trend we're seeing in West Taiwan, where the people in cities like Shanghai seem to want the best that money can buy, not "1,500 square feet because it's good enough for a family." The people in Shanghai would absolutely choose the 2,800 square feet home over some 1,500 cramped apartment with like 2,000 other residents farting in the hallways! I'm sure that any resident in Shanghai would jump at the chance to live the lifestyle in a modern American city if there wasn't this friction between the United States and West Taiwan. If we were allies, they would jump at the chance!

Bringing an entire factory from Taiwan to the United States wouldn't be that expensive. After all, that's what TSMC kinda did when the Phoenix factory was under construction--TSMC brought over 500 people from Taiwan just to assist in building the factory. I don't know where those employees are now. I think they're still here in Phoenix.
Besides, the bottom employees you're talking about, the ones who "couldn't remotely be able to afford an apartment or a house?" It's assumed that they'd be making between $30 to $40/hour. With a wife doing part-time entry level work, such an employee could easily buy a house. Anyone earning over $70k a year in the USA can afford a house, and someone at TSMC could easily make more than that. It's not Wal*Mart workers we're discussing here...

Recall that the primary reason for doing this (bringing entire factories over from Taiwan) was because it's presumed that Taiwan will soon be invaded by China, meaning all current Taiwanese residents will have to make a choice: resist or become Chinese. Those who resist will eventually become Chinese anyway, so why not get everyone at the TSMC plants and relocate them here to Phoenix as American citizens? It's a win-win for everybody but China!

 

[Constellar]

This is not surprising. Working on their ramp of the first fab, this appears to be their status quo. They would end up delaying every task possible to source products and labor from Taiwan, when it could have just been purchased 5 miles away instead (saw this a lot with the steamfitters and electricians). They claimed American workers were incompetent by purposely not providing proper engineering documentation for the tasks at hand so they could import labor. They want to keep as much of their profits in Taiwan, with a 100% Taiwan first mentality, and this is just the next logical step.

There's nothing wrong with having a Taiwan first mentality; after all, we have an America first mentality which has always served us well. When such a mentality starts to drive up prices, that's when we have a problem.
But yeah, the Taiwanese at the Phoenix plant has to resort to some dirty tricks to import the labor. Some of it was justified, though, since the American labor unions contracted for the Phoenix plant didn't work the long hours that the Taiwanese were willing to work. Blame can be assigned to both sides...

 

[YSCCC]

So what you're saying is that the "Asian lifestyle" is one of settling for more poverty, cramped living spaces with zero luxury, cheap furniture and cheaper Internet? That's not the trend we're seeing in West Taiwan, where the people in cities like Shanghai seem to want the best that money can buy, not "1,500 square feet because it's good enough for a family." The people in Shanghai would absolutely choose the 2,800 square feet home over some 1,500 cramped apartment with like 2,000 other residents farting in the hallways! I'm sure that any resident in Shanghai would jump at the chance to live the lifestyle in a modern American city if there wasn't this friction between the United States and West Taiwan. If we were allies, they would jump at the chance!

Bringing an entire factory from Taiwan to the United States wouldn't be that expensive. After all, that's what TSMC kinda did when the Phoenix factory was under construction--TSMC brought over 500 people from Taiwan just to assist in building the factory. I don't know where those employees are now. I think they're still here in Phoenix.
Besides, the bottom employees you're talking about, the ones who "couldn't remotely be able to afford an apartment or a house?" It's assumed that they'd be making between $30 to $40/hour. With a wife doing part-time entry level work, such an employee could easily buy a house. Anyone earning over $70k a year in the USA can afford a house, and someone at TSMC could easily make more than that. It's not Wal*Mart workers we're discussing here...

Recall that the primary reason for doing this (bringing entire factories over from Taiwan) was because it's presumed that Taiwan will soon be invaded by China, meaning all current Taiwanese residents will have to make a choice: resist or become Chinese. Those who resist will eventually become Chinese anyway, so why not get everyone at the TSMC plants and relocate them here to Phoenix as American citizens? It's a win-win for everybody but China!

I don't even know if you're trolling at this point... "West Taiwan" (presumably you mean PRC, since you mentioned Shanghai), are way more likely to be persuaded to go to USA, primarily due to political reason and freedom on all sides, such a motivation didn't work for a lot of Taiwanise. And you kept ignoring the unstabl political situation in USA right now, the potential discrimination (which, is undeniably, everywhere including USA, just the degree of it), lifestyle change, GUNS, etc.

And not to forget, if you offer every one of the immigrants from TSMC to afford that 2,800 sq ft house, 2 things will definitely happen:
1) that house will skyrocket in price, no longer affordable at their current price, it's not dozens or hundreds of employees, it's thousands.
2) The locals will complain and protest about bringing the whole TSMC into wherever USA is, jacking up the living cost and provide close to zero extra employment chance for the locals.

 

[KyaraM]

I don't even know if you're trolling at this point... "West Taiwan" (presumably you mean PRC, since you mentioned Shanghai), are way more likely to be persuaded to go to USA, primarily due to political reason and freedom on all sides, such a motivation didn't work for a lot of Taiwanise. And you kept ignoring the unstabl political situation in USA right now, the potential discrimination (which, is undeniably, everywhere including USA, just the degree of it), lifestyle change, GUNS, etc.

And not to forget, if you offer every one of the immigrants from TSMC to afford that 2,800 sq ft house, 2 things will definitely happen:
1) that house will skyrocket in price, no longer affordable at their current price, it's not dozens or hundreds of employees, it's thousands.
2) The locals will complain and protest about bringing the whole TSMC into wherever USA is, jacking up the living cost and provide close to zero extra employment chance for the locals.

I would frankly just stop arguing at this point. There is no point arguing against delusion, even though you are 1000000% correct. Living in Europe, I can state with certainty that I know not a single person who wants to live in the US, and claiming that "nobody cares about health insurance" is... certainly a take.

I'm healthy and in my 30s, but the past one and a half year, I had a knee injury, a car accident (other guy's fault), and a sport accident just as I was feeling better. The car accident alone incapacitated me for over a month, and I still struggle with some of the lingering effects such as a stiff neck. Currently, I have an injured foot that is bothering me for 6 weeks already, with a two week sick leave because I couldn't freaking walk. At all. In the US, the medical bills and two hospital stays would have easily bankrupted me, and the missed time at work could have cost me my job. The point of why I'm telling this is, it can hit ANYONE, no matter who you are. Why the hell would I want to live somewhere where a couple of unfortunate incidents could have ruined my entire life? No money in the world is worth that. Or dealing with the other stuff currently going on. Amd I'm far from alone.

Oh, and the millions in injury money people seem to expect in the US? Ahahaha! Who would even be able to pay that? You might get that money promised by the court, sure, but you will never see it because no normal person has that much, and dodging it is as simole as srating you are unable to pay. Even just 10k can be too much for many, and they won't carry me far with everything else I need to deal with in that situation.




To get back on topic with the article. Considering that the US is doing similar things, this shouldn't be any surprise to anyone. In fact, Taiwan would be stupid not to do this.

 

[phead128]

You can tell why Intel is flopping so hard, some Americans are so delusional.