Tech: Battlezone Voltages (Again)

[Les]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Greetings once again. More questions on my Battlezone project.

According to the BW Vector Monitor FAQ I should be getting the
following voltages on my Battlezone connector that goes to the
deflection board in the monitor from the vector generator board by
putting the black lead of my meter to pin 11 and red lead in the
corresponding pins.

Pin 1: Z-Out 6.70 VAC
Pin 2: Y-Out 6.69 VAC
Pin 3: X-Out 6.68 VAC
Pin 4: Ground-Center Tap 0 VAC
Pin 5: Y Ground 6.69 VAC
Pin 6: X Ground 6.69 VAC
Pin 7: 30VAC Center Tap 30.3 VAC
Pin 8: Z Ground 6.70 VAC
Pin 9: 6.3VAC Center Tap 9.70 VAC
Pin 10: 30VAC Center Tap 30.3 VAC
Pin 11: Ground Center Tap 0 VAC
Pin 12: Heater Ground 3.0 VAC

I am definitely not getting these voltages. The voltages in the 6-7
range are coming in at 2.5 to 3. Could I be doing something wrong?
Should I be getting these voltages even if the game is not in test
mode?

When I turn the game on, the start light does not flash and I will get
intermittent monitor chatter with the spot killer going on and off
about every 15 seconds.

What should I check for to see why I am not getting the right voltages?

Also, I don't understand how AC voltage is being generated from the
vector generator board. I only see DC voltage entering it. Can you
convert DC to AC?

Sorry for so many questions. But I am determined to get this game
going.

Thanks, Les

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>Could I be doing something wrong?

yes

>When I turn the game on, the start light does not >flash and I will get intermittent monitor chatter with >the spot killer going on and off about every 15 >seconds.

what does it do in test mode?

>Can you convert DC to AC?

Fist off, measuring the vector signals with a voltmeter is a hack way
to do that. You need to use a scope or logic probe. The signals vary
plus and minus which is where the AC part comes from. Being able to
watch a scope tells a lot of what is going on.

You need to start with good voltages to the CPU, then make sure all the
voltage regs on the CPU are doing the job, then see if the CPU is
pulsing the watchdog, then see if you are getting signals into the
DACs, then see if you are getting any signals OUT of the x,y,z outs,
etc... Start from the start.

I like to get the vector board working first, then the monitor, then
the math box.

You should send your board out for repair if any of the above is over
your head.

Kirb

 

[Les]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Kirb, in self-test mode I get one low beep. That is all. I do have an
oscilloscope. So I should put the black lead in pin 6 and the red lead
in pin 3 and I should see the voltage for the X signal?

I will likely have to wind up sending it off for board repairs, however
I am feeling much more confident about tinkering with boards from my SS
pinall experiences. And learning how is the biggest part of the fun
for me.

Thanks again, Les

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>Kirb, in self-test mode I get one low beep. That is all.

Get the manual, that is a bad chip of some sort. I can't remember off
the top of my head which one.

> I do have an oscilloscope. So I should put the black lead in pin 6 and the red lead
>in pin 3 and I should see the voltage for the X signal?

Use the test points on the board. The signal in time based mode looks a
lot like a constantly moving square wave. This should be the same as
the y out. Don't worry about z out until you get x and y going. Put
your logic probe on each input to the DACs this will tell you if the
vector generator is even sending signals to the analog converters.

>I will likely have to wind up sending it off for board repairs, however
>I am feeling much more confident about tinkering with boards from my SS
>pinall experiences. And learning how is the biggest part of the fun
>for me.

Get the schematic out and start learing. Remember that you have about
10 times the difficulty going on with this CPU than a normal pinball
board.

Kirb

 

[Les]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Here is an update since yesterday:

Put game into test mode and got patterns on my scope for both the x & y
outputs.

Got patterns for both x & y outputs when game is not in test mode and
spot killer is not on.

Sometimes I would have to push on the CPU a little bit to get the test
mode going. Should I replace that socket?

Then I realized (I think) that when you put the game in test mode, if
you don't have any beeps, that means the game passed the RAM test. And
if my monitor was working I should see the test patterns on the screen.
Then I would likely see a ROM failure or Math Box failure (which I
think would explain why the start button isn't flashing).

I am thinking about buying the high score save kit now. Is that a good
idea?

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much, Les

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>Put game into test mode and got patterns on my scope for both the x & y
>outputs.

That is good. Spot killer off, I assume.

>Got patterns for both x & y outputs when game is not in test mode and
>spot killer is not on.

THe spot killer goes off when it sees x and y movement. Sometimes it
will stay off with x OR y, but not always.

>Sometimes I would have to push on the CPU a little bit to get the test
>mode going. Should I replace that socket?

I would clean the legs of the CPU first. Get the game going before you
cause more problems. Putting pin strip sockets will help this problem.

>Then I realized (I think) that when you put the game in test mode, if
>you don't have any beeps, that means the game passed the RAM test.

Yes. You should also hear beeps when you move the controllers. Having a
working monitor helps a lot here.

>if my monitor was working I should see the test patterns on the screen.
> Then I would likely see a ROM failure or Math Box failure (which I
>think would explain why the start button isn't flashing).

Could be. Sometimes the game will work in test, but not in game mode.
You need to get the monitor working to know for sure.

>I am thinking about buying the high score save kit now. Is that a good
>idea?

Not until the game is working (you can buy it, don't install it yet).

Kirb

 

[Dave]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Since were on the Battlezone subject I have a Battlezone boardset that
doesnt do much of anything that I need repaired but No one responded to
my post that wanted to do it.The guy at Electron Forge talked to me but
did not offer to take it on so I assumed he probly didnt want to.So if
there is anyone that would like to take it on let me know and of course
I will pay you what you think is fair for your time and parts....let me
know....Thanks....Dave arcades@verizon.net

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>The guy at Electron Forge talked to me but did not offer to take it on so I assumed he probly >didnt want to

Did you ask? He could always get the vector board working as a starting
point.

Andre sometimes posts to vector questions. Seak him out as well.

Kirb

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

> Then I would likely see a ROM failure or Math Box failure (which I
> think would explain why the start button isn't flashing).

Most Mathbox failures won't prevent the self-test screen from
displaying. May ROM problems will cause the self-test screen
not to display. The fact that you are apparently getting some display
in game play mode but not in self test is nearly-meaningless. It's
probably just so much more garbage is getting blasted out to the
display circuitry during normal mode that it's slightly overcoming
the spot killer.

> Sometimes I would have to push on the CPU a little bit to get the test
> mode going. Should I replace that socket?

Yes.

> Then I realized (I think) that when you put the game in test mode, if
> you don't have any beeps, that means the game passed the RAM test. And
> if my monitor was working I should see the test patterns on the screen.

Not necessarily. Have you tested the Z-output on your scope? Do you
get audio responses from the buttons in self-test mode?

Alex
----
ayeckley@elektronforge.com
www.elektronforge.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>.The guy at Electron Forge talked to me but
> did not offer to take it on so I assumed he probly didnt want to.

Sorry for any miscommunication. I didn't find any record our
emails, but in general what I try to do when someone approaches
us with a potential board repair job is to give them some suggestions
of simple things (reseating connectors, etc.) they can try themselves.

It's kind of implied (my fault) that if those things don't help, or if the
person would rather not try the suggestions, then we'd be happy to
do that work for them. I'll contact you privately with our shipping info.
We don't give it out publically because then stuff just starts showing
up on our doorstep (and not always with return addresses, believe
it or not!).

Alex
----
ayeckley@elektronforge.com
www.elektronforge.com

 

[Les]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Battlezone is fixed and working all the way!!!!

Thanks to Pat D in the group who let me borrow his working monitor. I
put the monitor in my game and into test mode and I got the message
that I had two bad ROM chips. So the game was passing the RAM test and
I didn't get any beeps. I cleaned the legs on both chips and the game
booted up and played.

So now for my non-working monitor...

I wasn't getting any glow from the heater in the neck. I disconnected
the deflection board and found some very cold solder joints. One of
the connectors pulled all the way off the board. So I resolder all the
connectors and the wires that come from the boards and hook up the
monitor and now it works!

The moral of the effort is it is tough to troubleshoot if you don't
have a working monitor and/or working boards.

Once again thanks to Pat and the group for the help in this. The help
is sincerely appreciated.

Les